TheWesDude said:
So, when proven wrong, you try to reiterate your statement? What's wrong with admitting to being wrong?
2012 American Election (Presidential and otherwise)
- Thread starter The Vault Dweller
- Start date
So, when proven wrong, you try to reiterate your statement? What's wrong with admitting to being wrong?
its the internet tags.
Everyone knows if you admit to be wrong on the internetz your Penis will shrink.
Everyone knows if you admit to be wrong on the internetz your Penis will shrink.
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
I can't believe so many of you are saying america could crash and burn. If it did sink you'd float on the corpses of those who'd go first. You're too big to fall. With America having one of the largest economies there'd still be an economy even if the current administration did everything wrong.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
mjolnir, what would be the effects of the US fed govt declaring bankruptcy and insolvency by failing to raise the deficit cap?
that would be epic crash and burn. worse than the 1920s depression. and it would happen globally.
that would be epic crash and burn. worse than the 1920s depression. and it would happen globally.
Would it really?
Last time the US more or less declared sovereign default was 1971.
Sure, it's not pretty, but it's survivable.
Last time the US more or less declared sovereign default was 1971.
Sure, it's not pretty, but it's survivable.
The Nixon Shock? That is not even remotely the same thing as what Mjolnir/TheWesDude brought up. It was a "sovereign default" only in the sense that the US abandoned the notion of their dollar representing real gold value. Not really the same thing as the country defaulting on its debts and declaring bankruptcy. Hell, not the same thing at all.
Man, Nixon was such a great president.
Man, Nixon was such a great president.
Yeah, it was preposterous of me to think that there would be any kind of similarity, and also shame on me for even the slightest notion that Nixon was not the greatest man that ever graced the Earth.
Next I'll be saying that Ayn Rand was anything but a God-loving philanthrope.
Next I'll be saying that Ayn Rand was anything but a God-loving philanthrope.
I...uh...what? What's with the belligerence. I know that's le mot juste of this thread, but still.
Belligerence?Brother None said:
Dude, I was just joking, being over-the-top sarcastic because this is the Internet and subtlety doesn't really work here.
I actually thought you were being sarcastic, too, so I just chimed in.
Again, subtlety doesn't really work when there is just written words.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Yeah, I too had no idea whenever you were sarcastic or not BN, especially on ''Nixon was a great president''.
I wasn't being sarcastic. Nixon was a great president, who struggled with corruption and paranoia that led to his downfall, but he is probably one of the best of the 20th century otherwise.
Yeah, that wasn't exactly obvious.
Since the Nixon-shock essentially meant that the US were unwilling to uphold their part in the Bretton-Woods system and thus indirectly declared that they can and will not pay their debts I assumed you were being sarcastic with „Hell, not the same thing at all.“. The final sentence did the rest. Again, sorry for the confusion, unless you know your conversational partner really well it's really hard to tell how one means something in written words.
Since the Nixon-shock essentially meant that the US were unwilling to uphold their part in the Bretton-Woods system and thus indirectly declared that they can and will not pay their debts I assumed you were being sarcastic with „Hell, not the same thing at all.“. The final sentence did the rest. Again, sorry for the confusion, unless you know your conversational partner really well it's really hard to tell how one means something in written words.
Hassknecht said:
Oh? Perhaps I misunderstood the Nixon Shock, but as far as I know there was no reneging on debts, only unilaterally terminating the convertibility of gold to dollars. That and Executive Order 11615 was basically the Nixon Shock, and 11615 is just about wage freeze and tightening controls. If the US reneged on their international debts at the time, that is news to me. I don't believe they did.
And I know the common perception of Nixon is quite negative. But take out Watergate and possibly the Spiro Agnew thing and then look at his presidency. Established international relationships with China. Saved the economy from a cliff with the Nixon Shock. Founded the EPA. Forced desegregation on Southern schools, initiated the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with the USSR. Ended the Vietnam war. I can't think of many other presidents with as impressive a resume as Tricky Dick. JFK is much more fondly remembered and he was a belligerent asshole who did everything he could to blow up the planet. Sure he fucked up, but that doesn't undo the good he did, which is some very significant good.
Yeah, from what I know of him (which is probably less than BN) he was a decent president. His military policy in 'Nam aside. Very aside.
4-too, or 4-to-o? Perhaps the former can be attained on the latter?
Posting in GD whilst serious intox' feels like trespassing into a lake full of caiman and electric eels. *runs
I'll just shut up and re-read this surreal and hilarious thread.
EDIT: And lick the Keynesian yumminess off of Sander's brain.
Having said that, and despite him being one of the saner internet voices in this thread, there are some flaws in Sander's discourse. I'll explain when i'm less sober.
4-to-o said:
4-too, or 4-to-o? Perhaps the former can be attained on the latter?
Posting in GD whilst serious intox' feels like trespassing into a lake full of caiman and electric eels. *runs
I'll just shut up and re-read this surreal and hilarious thread.
EDIT: And lick the Keynesian yumminess off of Sander's brain.
Having said that, and despite him being one of the saner internet voices in this thread, there are some flaws in Sander's discourse. I'll explain when i'm less sober.
The "Good" Nixon
The "Good" Nixon
So Nixon WAS 'the peace Candidate' in 1968?
Or was he 'the peace Candidate' after the failure of the Cambodian Incursions?
How many years was the Vietnam War extended because 'the peace candidate' of 1968 was elected?
How many years before 'peace with honor' became the fashion?
Everyone breathing and toilet trainable, knew Nixon would be reelected in 1972.
McGovern had NO chance.
And. A shooting war going on and Nixon's plumbers were playing 007 at the Watergate.
What could the Democrats have to embarrass the Nixon Administration that wasn't already being ignored?
And. Nixon didn't have to lie about the burglaries, only have a faithful fall guy, or try declaring full executive responsibility and then Stonewalling, as Reagan excelled at during the '80's.
Nixon did not have to lie, AND he did lie.
So nurture this construct of 'The Good Nixon', but grasp how fragile a 'hero' he was.
4too
The "Good" Nixon
BN said:
So Nixon WAS 'the peace Candidate' in 1968?
Or was he 'the peace Candidate' after the failure of the Cambodian Incursions?
How many years was the Vietnam War extended because 'the peace candidate' of 1968 was elected?
How many years before 'peace with honor' became the fashion?
Everyone breathing and toilet trainable, knew Nixon would be reelected in 1972.
McGovern had NO chance.
And. A shooting war going on and Nixon's plumbers were playing 007 at the Watergate.
What could the Democrats have to embarrass the Nixon Administration that wasn't already being ignored?
And. Nixon didn't have to lie about the burglaries, only have a faithful fall guy, or try declaring full executive responsibility and then Stonewalling, as Reagan excelled at during the '80's.
Nixon did not have to lie, AND he did lie.
So nurture this construct of 'The Good Nixon', but grasp how fragile a 'hero' he was.
4too
He's not a hero. He just accomplished a lot and is unreasonable disparaged while guys like JFK are sanctified. History written by the winners, I guess.
Reality Maybe Tomorrow
Reality Maybe Tomorrow
Looking back at Cold War One and turning over the compost of history.
Your 'winners' may be the last archeological level published and on a PR tour, interviewed by talking heads who have not read the book.
Historical events, memories of where and when Nixon's Resignation and Kennedy's Assassination announced. The TV's were black and white, the news cycle a drum beat. It is an inebriated reality when consuming one leadership cult after another.
JFK was shielded by that era's 4-color glossy, LOOK magazine sheen, his assassination froze his legacy in a block of amber. Looks good on your dashboard, but no GPS.
Nixon lived longer. Nixon had enough slack, to hang in effigy. View 8 by 10's of full frontal Nixon, and not hard to say, he did ALL that!
When the full nature of Nixon, including, ah … reasonable disparagement, achieves some volatile synergy, 'The Good Nixon' may be acknowledged with less disorientating spin and/or conditional love.
Depending on one's needs and desires, we get our pick of a Saint JFK or a Shakespearean anti-hero, Dick the Nix.
And, the reinvention cycle must be quickening, (Running out of heroes?), I laughed out loud when 2012 Republicans waxed nostalgic over Bill Clinton!
4too
Reality Maybe Tomorrow
BN said:
Looking back at Cold War One and turning over the compost of history.
Your 'winners' may be the last archeological level published and on a PR tour, interviewed by talking heads who have not read the book.
Historical events, memories of where and when Nixon's Resignation and Kennedy's Assassination announced. The TV's were black and white, the news cycle a drum beat. It is an inebriated reality when consuming one leadership cult after another.
JFK was shielded by that era's 4-color glossy, LOOK magazine sheen, his assassination froze his legacy in a block of amber. Looks good on your dashboard, but no GPS.
Nixon lived longer. Nixon had enough slack, to hang in effigy. View 8 by 10's of full frontal Nixon, and not hard to say, he did ALL that!
When the full nature of Nixon, including, ah … reasonable disparagement, achieves some volatile synergy, 'The Good Nixon' may be acknowledged with less disorientating spin and/or conditional love.
Depending on one's needs and desires, we get our pick of a Saint JFK or a Shakespearean anti-hero, Dick the Nix.
And, the reinvention cycle must be quickening, (Running out of heroes?), I laughed out loud when 2012 Republicans waxed nostalgic over Bill Clinton!
4too
I guess he takes some credits for the fact that he improved the US relationship with China.Brother None said:
Nixon accomplished quite a few things. But I am not sure if he really did that much in Vietnam. I mean as already some mentioned the bombing of cambodia or the "Madman-Theory" which was a part of Nixons foreign policy regarding Vietnam. I mean playing poker is one thing. Playing it with nuclear missiles though ...