Anyone have idea why New Vegas is already under $20.00?

[Walpknut]

And what do they trade? Tenpenny Tower has nothing on it, The place would make mroe sense if the game took place mere years after the war, but there it makes n osense, why do these people are such snobs? where do they get that combat armor and clothes? they seem to despise anyoen from outside and don't seem to even like doing anything at all all day, why are they rich? doesn't make sense.

The difference is Primm is the place where the Couriers get their orders and part ways, they don't actively trade anything outside of what the ydo in the town, on the other Hand Canterburry commons doesn't have anything they can produce and they seem to be the source of the caravans yet it is never explained where they get those supplies, Primm has crops, and thei ncome from the Mojave Express, Canterburry has nothing.

Where do Wanamingos come from? http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wanamingos

If a character have two personality traits he si a shitty character, you sure have very shallow insight on characterization.
Dean si also very Resourcefull, he has survived in the SIerra Madre for 300 years, he has a way with words and machines. ELijah is greedy as a byproduct of his curiosity, at first he was curious in a contructive and possitive way, always looking to push the limits of what the yhad, but after being too consumed by this, eh led his brothers to a humiliating defeat and he lsot everythign he had, he went insane... If you explroe dialogue maybe you will find soem of the details you don't have.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

If by "made to appeal the lowest common denonimator" you mean "meant to attract new fans to the franchise after Interplay fucked it over with 2 shitty knock-offs" I agree. Fallout 3 was designed to get new fans and catch them somewhat up to speed because most computers won't run the originals anymore and the box set is a buggy piece of crap (trust me I bought it).

Going by your so-called logic TES was a dying series because Oblivion is an overly simplified Morrowind and TES5 looks like is simplified compared to TES4. Get new fans has nothing to do with it, Bethesda just wants the game to sell as much as possible.

It breathed new life into the dying horse Interplay made and made many improvements to it.

No comment.

For one, your skill as a player determined how the fights went, not dictated by electronic dice.

Which is the complete opposite of how an RPG should work actually.

You can't damn the game by saying it was a lazy cash in, Bethesda tried to get as much of the lore and backstory in as well as make their own, it's shortcomings were because it was a much more massive game than the first two.

No, its shortcoming are due to Bethesda not giving a damn about consistency. The GECK, the Jet, the Ghoul physiology (sp.?), the Vaults experiments...they modified all this stuff (and much more) because they wanted to tell their own story and to hell with lore. Hell they don't care that much for the lore of their own series, you can imagine how much they care for the lore of a series they bought.

And on the subject of graphics, just shut up, Fallout 1 and 2 are still good games and they don't rely on graphics, and even if graphics was a judge of a good game Fallout 3 could run on the engine Quake 2 used and still have better graphics than the first two games.

I don't know what the hell you have understood. I said that FO:NV price dropped so fast becuase, among other things, graphically is old. Or are you telling me that graphics nowadays don't affect sales?

Oh and to the guy who says Bethesda doesen't know what an RPG is? Go play the god-damn Elder Scrolls series and think about what you typed in.

Those aren't Role-Playing games. At least the last one isn't.

Megaton had fresh water and was a trading hub, it lived by selling water

No idea where you took this. Megaton has a purifier that barely can satisfies the needs of its own residents. If they had all the fresh water they needed the BoS wouldn't give them Aqua Pura.

Andale survived on the poor sons of bitches that wandered inside the town.

Which is impossible. They'd need too many victims to sustain themselves for all that time. Not to mention that a diet of meat alone causes all kinds of problems to human beings.

Tenpenny Tower was full of rich residents able to pay for their needs.

Question: how could the residents ammass so much money that they could pay for a life-long rent? Isn't the Capital wasteland extremely poor?

Big-Town is a shithole and as expected lives of of scavanged food

Yes, every settlement in the area lives off of scavenged food. For 200 years. And there's still tons of it around. Wow.

The game was spread thin due to the massive scale they chose for it. Bethesda tried to encompass all the history of the previous games into it and felt shallow because of it.

And yet Obsidian did a much better work in less than half the time even though the quantity and complexity of stuff they put in was superior. MAGIC!

 

[Blatherscythe]

Megaton sustained itself by buying ALL of its food, growing NONE of its own!? Well I guess the guys from Megaton are pretty bloody stupid. As there are no farms in Fallout 3 God knows where the food is coming from eh? Probably the local supermarket because nobody bothered to loot it. Fallout 3 isn't hard to pick apart, comparing the oversights and plot holes to the first two games is a losing battle. As I said, I had fun playing it but there was no attention to detail.

Canterbury commons a trading hub!? What are they trading? Again not growing any food. A trading hub where about four people live. Gimme a break, don't claim substance where there is none. Losing battle.

Megaton had water to trade. They only give to residents, but I think they also have to trade it for needed supplies. Canterbury is not really a trade hub, my bad, I should have said it's a pit-stop for caravans where they get organize and plan the next trip out.

And yes it is a losing battle to people who whine and complain about how screwed up the Capital Wasteland was. Really? It had no hairy Deathclaws, mutants that could control animals and a robot army in a Vault called Vault 0. Nor did it reduce the game to a simple run and gun.

 

[Walpknut]

Megaton only has irradiated water, people are better off driking from irradiated lakes than buying irradiated water from Megaton. And if megaton had so much water why did they try to kill the BOS for their water?

 

[Blatherscythe]

If by "made to appeal the lowest common denonimator" you mean "meant to attract new fans to the franchise after Interplay fucked it over with 2 shitty knock-offs" I agree. Fallout 3 was designed to get new fans and catch them somewhat up to speed because most computers won't run the originals anymore and the box set is a buggy piece of crap (trust me I bought it).

Going by your so-called logic TES was a dying series because Oblivion is an overly simplified Morrowind and TES5 looks like is simplified compared to TES4. Get new fans has nothing to do with it, Bethesda just wants the game to sell as much as possible.

It breathed new life into the dying horse Interplay made and made many improvements to it.

No comment.

For one, your skill as a player determined how the fights went, not dictated by electronic dice.

Which is the complete opposite of how an RPG should work actually.

You can't damn the game by saying it was a lazy cash in, Bethesda tried to get as much of the lore and backstory in as well as make their own, it's shortcomings were because it was a much more massive game than the first two.

No, its shortcoming are due to Bethesda not giving a damn about consistency. The GECK, the Jet, the Ghoul physiology (sp.?), the Vaults experiments...they modified all this stuff (and much more) because they wanted to tell their own story and to hell with lore. Hell they don't care that much for the lore of their own series, you can imagine how much they care for the lore of a series they bought.

And on the subject of graphics, just shut up, Fallout 1 and 2 are still good games and they don't rely on graphics, and even if graphics was a judge of a good game Fallout 3 could run on the engine Quake 2 used and still have better graphics than the first two games.

I don't know what the hell you have understood. I said that FO:NV price dropped so fast becuase, among other things, graphically is old. Or are you telling me that graphics nowadays don't affect sales?

Oh and to the guy who says Bethesda doesen't know what an RPG is? Go play the god-damn Elder Scrolls series and think about what you typed in.

Those aren't Role-Playing games. At least the last one isn't.

Megaton had fresh water and was a trading hub, it lived by selling water

No idea where you took this. Megaton has a purifier that barely can satisfies the needs of its own residents. If they had all the fresh water they needed the BoS wouldn't give them Aqua Pura.

Andale survived on the poor sons of bitches that wandered inside the town.

Which is impossible. They'd need too many victims to sustain themselves for all that time. Not to mention that a diet of meat alone causes all kinds of problems to human beings.

Tenpenny Tower was full of rich residents able to pay for their needs.

Question: how could the residents ammass so much money that they could pay for a life-long rent? Isn't the Capital wasteland extremely poor?

Big-Town is a shithole and as expected lives of of scavanged food

Yes, every settlement in the area lives off of scavenged food. For 200 years. And there's still tons of it around. Wow.

The game was spread thin due to the massive scale they chose for it. Bethesda tried to encompass all the history of the previous games into it and felt shallow because of it.

And yet Obsidian did a much better work in less than half the time even though the quantity and complexity of stuff they put in was superior. MAGIC!

It breathed new life into a series that got fucked over by tatics and BOS. No matter what you think Fallout 3 was much better than those spin-offs.

And in real life people don't take turns taking pot shots at one another. Your tatics were mixed up from the first two games, you couldn't see every enemy and if you couldn't actually aim you were screwed. Besides, it appeals to FPS players, when a game costs you an insane amount of money to create you want to secure as many buyers as possible, games are more expensive to create than they were in the 90's.

Bethesda tried to cram too much into the game which made it feel spread thin. How is it not consistent with the GECK? We don't even know how the fucking thing works, all we see is a computer in a briefcase. Jet was put there as a nod to the second game, what about ghoul physiology, it's a person reduced to a walking piece of jerky from a huge amount of radiation! We never see any Vault experiment outside of the one in Necropolis and even then that was fucking stupid, did they not know radiation exposure kills?

Graphics don't matter in a game, to many people if graphics are good that's merely a bonus.

Also, fuck off, we haven't seen anything other than screenshots and a fight scene with a dragon, you can't make that call now. TES Oblivion was a dumbed down Morrowind I'll give you that, but at the time it was damn good. And you say that TES are not roleplaying games? WHAT!?! You create a character, pick stats and go forth to forge their destiny as you see fit. Have you mixed up TES with Borderlands?

Megaton didn't need to buy water so they didn't have to worry about that, the Stahls got food from merchants selling it, sold it and used the money to buy more.

As for your third point, you saw Big-Town, it has about 8 kids in their late teens living in it and suffering. They aren't having an easy time finding food. Besides the raiders controlled the super-market for an unknown amount of time. No wonder people didn't scavange there and the raiders were going to make sure their new home lasted for a while.

Andale has 2 families and has a stockpile of meat. And you think the people living there are healthy?!?! As for Tenpenny tower I don't know how they got so rich, they lack morals so that makes it easier. How did gamblers amass enough money to get on the Strip?

And it's not hard to create a game when the graphics engine, plot and certain armor and weapon models are already there. They didn't have to start from scratch like Bethesda did.

And oh my god! A company wants to make money! The bastards!

By the way, don't call fans of Fallout 3 the lowest common denonimator of fan out there, you sound like a pompous ass. Many people looked past it's short-comings and found a good game that could give them hours more playtime then the originals.

 

[Walpknut]

The Gamblers are mostly NCR citizens that made the trip to the strip but end up piss poor and on the streets.

WHat more hours of gameplay than the originals? you only went thru the main story line and neevr played them back did you?

 

[Lexx]

And in real life people don't take turns taking pot shots at one another.

I hope you know that it's still a game and not real life.

Besides the raiders controlled the super-market for an unknown amount of time. No wonder people didn't scavange there and the raiders were going to make sure their new home lasted for a while.

So... the few raiders in there took the supermarket 200 years ago and since then are working hard that no other person goes there to steal their food that they also don't eat by themself (instead they like human bodies much more, considering all the dead bodies hanging around everywhere).

How did gamblers amass enough money to get on the Strip?

NCR soldiers getting paid by the NCR and the money is what they spend on the strip.

And it's not hard to create a game when the graphics engine, plot and certain armor and weapon models are already there.

I doubt this.

 

[Blatherscythe]

And in real life people don't take turns taking pot shots at one another.

I hope you know that it's still a game and not real life.

Besides the raiders controlled the super-market for an unknown amount of time. No wonder people didn't scavange there and the raiders were going to make sure their new home lasted for a while.

So... the few raiders in there took the supermarket 200 years ago and since then are working hard that no other person goes there to steal their food that they also don't eat by themself (instead they like human bodies much more, considering all the dead bodies hanging around everywhere).

How did gamblers amass enough money to get on the Strip?

NCR soldiers getting paid by the NCR and the money is what they spend on the strip.

And it's not hard to create a game when the graphics engine, plot and certain armor and weapon models are already there.

I doubt this.

If it's a game then why do you guys give a shit about insignifigent details? How is turn based strategy the only combat option for an RPG? And no I didn't mean that the raiders were there for 200 years, the super-market is their base, there's only like 3 fridges worth of food left and there are cans all over the floor. They had been living there for a while. And I didn't mean NCR soldiers, I meant civilians. And neither of us has made a game so none of us can determine how hard it was to create these games, but Obsidian reused many Fallout 3 skins and either did some minor work on the engine or got a slightly newer version of it.

 

[Blatherscythe]

The Gamblers are mostly NCR citizens that made the trip to the strip but end up piss poor and on the streets.

WHat more hours of gameplay than the originals? you only went thru the main story line and neevr played them back did you?

So you just rushed through the main story? No wonder you think the game sucks. It's not a linear game, there are side quests, exploration and item hunting to do. There's DLC to lengthen it and hundreds of great mods.

And that still doesn't explain how they got their 2200 caps (I put the extra 200 there for hiring a bodyguard and getting food for the trip).

 

[Walpknut]

You call incoherent world building in a story heavy game an insignificant detail?

Then why was the super duper mart still full of food for them to survive on if they jut arrived there soem years ago? one would think a super market would be the very first thing people would ransack in apocaliptic situations, yet nobody ever went there except for raiders and the player, and is still full of food.

The Gamblers are citizens of the NCR that can afford the trip to the strip, the say so in the 118, peopel go there with the money they painstakingly saved and then spend it all on the strip, having to sell even their clothes to be able to pay the trip back to california.

 

[Blatherscythe]

You call incoherent world building in a story heavy game an insignificant detail?

Then why was the super duper mart still full of food for them to survive on if they jut arrived there soem years ago? one would think a super market would be the very first thing people would ransack in apocaliptic situations, yet nobody ever went there except for raiders and the player, and is still full of food.

The Gamblers are citizens of the NCR that can afford the trip to the strip, the say so in the 118, peopel go there with the money they painstakingly saved and then spend it all on the strip, having to sell even their clothes to be able to pay the trip back to california.

Where is this explained? I guess I can also make the assumption that the residents of Tenpenny tower saved up their money to get in there.

Besides the raiders took up residence in the market so no one would enter it, they were living comfortably on the food as shown by the cans. But they only had 3 fridges of food left. That's hardly full.

 

[Walpknut]

How did they save their money? The DC is stated to be a piss poor shithole, California on the other hand is a prosperous region, the NCR, the Tenpenny residents seem to have lived in the tower for their entire lives, where did they get money from the DC wasteland?
SO then the raiders were there form the begining now? you just go in circles, how did they survive on canned food for 200 years? why is there still food there? the Raiders don't seem like the kind ofp eople that distribute their resoruces carefuly.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

It breathed new life into a series that got fucked over by tatics and BOS. No matter what you think Fallout 3 was much better than those spin-offs.

It breathed new life in the series...by completely changing it. There were others interested in the license, so don't try the "Bethseda saved the series" card.

Also, FO3 is indeed better than BoS, but that's not saying much.

And in real life people don't take turns taking pot shots at one another.

In real life you also don't heal instantly. But I'm fairly sure that you think that the real-time approach is better. If that's the case you are wrong. There isn't a style or a genre inherently superior to another.

Besides, it appeals to FPS players, when a game costs you an insane amount of money to create you want to secure as many buyers as possible, games are more expensive to create than they were in the 90's.

I understand that, but just like everything there's a good way to do something and a bad way. Stats matters very little in FO3 during combat. Deus Ex was more of an RPG in that regards and that's a game that was never labelled as such, go figure.

[quuote]How is it not consistent with the GECK? We don't even know how the fucking thing works, all we see is a computer in a briefcase. Jet was put there as a nod to the second game, what about ghoul physiology, it's a person reduced to a walking piece of jerky from a huge amount of radiation! We never see any Vault experiment outside of the one in Necropolis and even then that was fucking stupid, did they not know radiation exposure kills?[/quote]

-We know how the (original) GECK works. It contains special seeds, fertilizers, a portable generator, a holotape reader and something else.
-Jet was put there as a nod to the second game? Then why it's completely different with no explanation and apparently now it's even a pre-war drug?
-The "walking corpse" ghouls were sane and severely impaired in their movements.
-Maybe you should study more the lore before saying that the only known Vault experiment was the one in Necropolis.

Graphics don't matter in a game, to many people if graphics are good that's merely a bonus.

Yes, for me and the people in this forum and others. The vast majority? If the graphics are bad it's not good.

Also, fuck off, we haven't seen anything other than screenshots and a fight scene with a dragon, you can't make that call now.

There are now only three attributes and, again, less skills. I'd say I can make that call now.

And you say that TES are not roleplaying games? WHAT!?! You create a character, pick stats and go forth to forge their destiny as you see fit.

Statistics alone don't make a Role-Playing game.

Megaton didn't need to buy water so they didn't have to worry about that, the Stahls got food from merchants selling it, sold it and used the money to buy more.

And yet the BoS sends water to them.

As for your third point, you saw Big-Town, it has about 8 kids in their late teens living in it and suffering. They aren't having an easy time finding food.

Yes, I saw Big Town. And Canterbury Commons. And Girerdshade. And Grayditch. And the Underworld. And Megaton. And all the unmarked camps you can find around. All of them surviving by looting pre-war food. This is ludicrous. Hell, there's even a pre-war log on a terminal that has this:

"The looting gets worse every day, and it's a small town. There can't be much left, and there's already been one scuffle at the canteen."

There can't be much left a few days after the bombs dropped and yet there's still a lot 200 years later. Way to go Beth.

Andale has 2 families and has a stockpile of meat. And you think the people living there are healthy?!?!

Not mental health. Physical health. We can't survive on a diet composed exclusively of meat.

As for Tenpenny tower I don't know how they got so rich

Because it's not said and makes no sense. Thanks for proving my point.

And it's not hard to create a game when the graphics engine, plot and certain armor and weapon models are already there. They didn't have to start from scratch like Bethesda did.

Because the writers and the designers are those making the graphics and the engine, right?

And oh my god! A company wants to make money! The bastards!

Sure, it's their right to dumb down their products to ensure that they sell more. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

By the way, don't call fans of Fallout 3 the lowest common denonimator of fan out there, you sound like a pompous ass.

I wasn't referring to the fans but to the potential buyers Bethesda was aiming at. There's nothing inherently wrong in liking what FO3 has to offer. It's wrong when you like what FO3 has to offer and claim it's a step forward for the series...which is actually what a lot of FO3 fans did.

Where is this explained? I guess I can also make the assumption that the residents of Tenpenny tower saved up their money to get in there.

By multiple persons. In-game. Did you skip the dialogues?

But also...logic, for God's sake. The NCR isn't a poor wasteland. People have jobs, their are payed, they use that money to try to win big in Vegas. You know, like in real life.

The residents of the Tenpenny Tower instead have to pay a life-long rent. How could they save so much money in the poor wasteland that it's DC? Once inside they don't work anymore, so...where do all those rich persons come from?

 

[Blatherscythe]

How'd the Brotherhood survive in the first game? They rarely left the bunker and never interacted with outsiders. How did junktown survive? By selling junk to merchants in exchange for necessities probably, but since it is never shown we don't know. Again I can go on. We assume these things happen behind the scenes and we really shouldn't care, we can fill in the blanks ourselves for the most part.

How do we know those people have good enough jobs to earn that kind of cash? Many NCR folk tell the player that times are tough back home.

And just because a game is made for a larger audience doesn't mean it's dumbed down, simplified and easier to use perhaps, but dumbed down means anyone could beat it on the hardest difficulty etc. It was made easier to use because Bethesda had to fix things from the two latest fuck ups from Interplay, Tatics and BOS, niether were RPGs. Actually wait, most games are RPGs, you take a role, you play the role and it's a game. RPGs in the sense of games means you do the RPG aspect but you design your character and determine their actions. Fallout 3 gave the player numerous options to solve a quest and since no one else was doing it that made it stand out. The changes were to appeal to the masses and not all the changes were bad. Fallout 3 put emphasis on exploraton and when you got into the game it was immersive.

The first person aspect helps immersion better than the isometric view of the old games. Traveling was done in real time at least once instead of a dot going across a poorly drawn map. For the size and development time it went through Bethesda was trying to ensure they appealed to as many people as possible. Fallout 3 was more of a fixer upper, it removed BOS from memory and got more people into the game, which means more buyers, they also got Obsidian to make the game and Obsidian made New Vegas in the way they wanted to make Van Buren for the most part.

 

[Walpknut]

The BOS survived by llying themselves with the NCR as you can see in FO2.

How do we know that they have the money? maybe because they are there in the strip? it's not like the whole population of California is in the strip, is just a handful of people, and a lot of them end up outside in freeside trying to save money to get back.

 

[Crni Vuk]

If it's a game then why do you guys give a shit about insignifigent details? How is turn based strategy the only combat option for an RPG?

Eh ? Who ever said it was THE only way to make a proper RPG. Or any game for that matter.

See. When I am used to my bicycle then I would expect nothing less then that. I would not want to use a motorcycle just because someone told me "it is the better way to move around". What if I am NOT looking for that kind of experience ? What if the part that I have to use my own muscles to move around is EXACTLY what I am looking for in a bicycle ? If I just want to get very fast from point A to B I might as well use my car. On the other side I would also not want to sell people which love to use their motorcycle a bicycle telling them it is better for their health. People love what they do for different reasons. Does not always mean one way is inherently superior to the other way. Just beacuse it might "look" that way.

Turn based is neither inferior nor superior to "other" game play mechanics used in other RPGs. Both ways in RPGs the real time and turn based managed to coexist in the past. Many of the developers of Fallout 1 explained several times they choose turn based on purpose as they thought it was the best way to make THEIR VISION of a game. That does not mean it would be THE way to make a good game.

Diablo 1 and 2 are awesome games. I love them. And I would NEVER want to see Diablo 3 become suddenly turn based. It does not fit. That simple. Neither would I want Doom 4 to become a over the shoulder third person shooter. Or a RTS like game. Just because the "masses" or some publisher/developer has the feeling it is fancy right now. That is one way how to flush diversity down the toilet. Because yeah. We all enjoy only Bieber songs. And because HE is one who gets a lot of attention and money all song makers should try to imitate him now.

That is what Bethesda did. They used their Oblivion game play and squeezed the Fallout world in to it. With a few changes here and there. So you have a Fallout game with Oblivion mechanics behind it (in its core) - And even with the same shallow NPCs. Just that the original games never have been designed for first person real time combat in the first place. And regardless how much people love to twist it around. It is NOT an evolution. It is simply a shift. Like from Left to right. That is a fact. Opinion starts when you think if it is either a improvement or decline. But here again. Fallout 3 did nothing to add anything new.

Let's say another company would have made a Fallout 3 with a game play much similar to Jagged Alliance 2. Not exactly like it. But giving more complexity to the turn based combat to make it more tactical and demanding. With less possibilities to abuse it by the player. That would be evolution.



There are many ways how to make good RPGs. Fallout was always TB. Bethesda changed it. And they sold F3 as a true sequel. So it is just natural that one will complain about that here if he loved TB. And that does not mean Fallout 1 or 2 was perfect with the combat. It was even quite easy to exploit the system. But so was Bethesdas system.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

How'd the Brotherhood survive in the first game? They rarely left the bunker and never interacted with outsiders.

Except the merchants with which they trade the weapons the build, you mean? Did you PLAY those games?

How did junktown survive? By selling junk to merchants in exchange for necessities probably, but since it is never shown we don't know.

Junktown it's a trading hub. Explained in-game. And unlike FO3 here it makes sense because it's shown and said that THERE IS large scale commerce.

Again I can go on. We assume these things happen behind the scenes and we really shouldn't care, we can fill in the blanks ourselves for the most part.

We can fill the blanks if the game gives us the tools to do so.

How do we know those people have good enough jobs to earn that kind of cash? Many NCR folk tell the player that times are tough back home.

Ok, you are really grasping at straws, here.

"Earn that kind of cash"? As long as one has a steady job he can save money. The game never say they saved the caps in three months.

And just because a game is made for a larger audience doesn't mean it's dumbed down

True. On the other hand a game that is dumbed down IS for the masses. And FO3 is dumbed down.

simplified and easier to use perhaps, but dumbed down means anyone could beat it on the hardest difficulty etc. It was made easier to use because Bethesda had to fix things from the two latest fuck ups from Interplay

That's BS and you know it, this is just their modus operandi. Again, TES4 dumbed down everything from TES3 and it looks like TES5 will again simplify the structure of Oblivion. Going by your logic the TES series was going down the drain.

FO3 IS dumbed down. The SPECIAL is meaningless, the skills are simplified and the game gives skill points like candy, the perks have low requirements, VATS is obscenely overpowered, ammo has no weight, Stimpaks heal istantly and they are everywhere, weapons and armors are overpowered compared to the enemies, there aren't truly negative consequences to your choiches and so on.
Sorry, but this isn't just "simplified and easier to use".

The first person aspect helps immersion better than the isometric view of the old games. Traveling was done in real time at least once instead of a dot going across a poorly drawn map.

You know also what helps immersion? A believable world and good writing, and both things are dirt cheap.

And "poorly drawn map"? Next thing you'll say is that FO1-2 had 2D graphic.

For the size and development time it went through Bethesda was trying to ensure they appealed to as many people as possible.

See my sig.

 

[Lexx]

If it's a game then why do you guys give a shit about insignifigent details?

Because of world atmosphere.

How is turn based strategy the only combat option for an RPG?

Nobody here says that turn based combat is the only combat-type for an rpg. You are making shit up to feed your anger, I'll guess.

And I didn't mean NCR soldiers, I meant civilians.

The folks on the strip are mostly soldiers that aren't on duty. The game explains that as well.

And neither of us has made a game so none of us can determine how hard it was to create these games

That's not correct. Over the last decade I worked on quite many games. No AAA titles and nothing that shipped for money, but I still have. Not that it matters anything for this discussion, though...

 

[Iabimyshkin]

If it's a game why do you care!? GAH!?

If a film has plot holes and inconsistencies I care, I don't just say 'it's just a film', don't get that at all. This argument is only going on because people won't accept what is staring them in the face. I said I had loads of fun playing Fallout 3 and I did. I don't think it is such a bad thing as many people on this forum do, it did bring back the series! 200 hours of pure pleasure for me. Still, i'd never try and deny the lack of detail and substance in the game. I'd openly admit that of course the first two aren't free of this completely but in Fallout 3 they are impossible to look past. No one can deny that in New Vegas the towns felt like towns, the settlements felt like settlements. Of course attention to detail matters in a story based RPG, ludicrous to suggest otherwise really.

 

[Iabimyshkin]

Also stop limply arguing about how the NCR has money. The NCR is a real, genuine empire. The NCR is a country, with infrastructure and an economy. It is a burgeoning civilisation with a government, a class system and various industries. They make their money the same way people do today in real life, they work. There are workers, business men, farmers, politicians and gangsters.

The capital wasteland wasn't any kind of civilisation. It was desperate people struggling to survive. So how are the people in Tenpenny towers rich? What could they have made their money from in the capital wasteland!? As some people have suggested in defence, there are numerous possible explanations. I don't know, maybe they made their money elsewhere, in the NCR, in the commonwealth and then, for some reason, decided the Capital Wasteland was a nice place to be. There are possible explanations, but as pointed out already, there isn't any possible explanation given. This isn't leaving it to our imagination, this is a glaring oversight. This is part of the story so OF COURSE it matters, because the story there is so thin. They could've and should've had a background for things like that, undeniable. F3 fans go from a weak defence to just plain old- does it really matter?

Again, had a ball playing Fallout 3 at the time for a good 200 hours but the criticism of its lack of depth and detail is completely justified. I could never replay Fallout 3, I tried, because of a weak story, lack of depth and lack of variety and genuine choice and consequence.]

Maybe this discussion should die because inevitably we're gonna gave to agree to disagree before we work up into a frenzy. I don't need people to accept my views when I'm this confident myself they're correct. Plus, none of this is really anything to do with the thread's question.

It's dropped in price probably because the engine is very old and graphically it is outdated, was even when it came out. Also there may have been a flurry of trade ins when people were mad about the bugs that some people were plagued with. There is a new Elder Scrolls on its way etc. etc. Quite a few reasons, all boring, like the question...