Doctor Who

I've found a lot of the episodes under Moffat to be rubbish. But I keep watching, hoping for a good one. It's what fans do. It's why I still watch the bloody Toronto Maple Leafs after decades of crap.

As as lousy as Moffat's episodes tend to be since he became show runner and buried his head up his ass there were still some good scenes and ideas in this one.
 
Hell, it's still a pretty good show. It's only frustrating in comparison to how much better the Russell T Davies era was, and that one had plenty of flaws too.

Dr Who is like Fallout in that sense. Even though the old series had plenty of flaws they're idealized, making it impossible for the current to live up to it.
 
for the skulls thing i thought of PST as well but also LOTR movies

i was really dissapointed in this as well.

it was one huge cop out.

and to me if you have to use a cop out, it just means " i didnt originally have a plan and this is what i came up with at the last second".

which is weak. weak as hell. weaksauce.

then again this past season there were a few really weaksauce endings.


this ending did not feel "epic" at all. and how the hell could "doctor who" be the question, the first question, when the time lords were not around at the beginning of time.

another cop out.


this episode shall henceforth be known as the cop-out ending episode. i have declared it so, so it shall be!
 
In my opinion, I think the point is that time can be rewritten no matter what. Even though "fixed points" in time cannot be avoided, they can be altered. Look at "The Waters of Mars" as another example, the fixed point was altered, and history rewritten, but the end result was still pretty much the same. I think that it actually was the Doctor dying in the premiere, but then the younger him found out about his own death, and altered history. It was pretty cool to see what happens when you avert a fixed point, though. "Tick tock goes the clock. Only it doesn't". And Rory is always awsome.
 
Brother None said:
Hell, it's still a pretty good show. It's only frustrating in comparison to how much better the Russell T Davies era was, and that one had plenty of flaws too.

Dr Who is like Fallout in that sense. Even though the old series had plenty of flaws they're idealized, making it impossible for the current to live up to it.
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When RTD was the show runner I couldn't wait for Moffat to take over. Now I find myself missing RTD. I thought he was great at character writing and a great setup man but incredibly lousy at resolutions. His S1 and S2 finales worked for me. S3 and S4 on the other hand rank right at the bottom for me for finales.

And yes, it's still a good show but Moffat isn't as clever as he thinks he is. There's a difference between clever and convoluted crap that he hasn't seemed to have figured out yet. For my tastes, the long arcs were a mistake.

And I don't idealise the old series. I like it for what it is, warts and all.
 
TheWesDude said:
this ending did not feel "epic" at all. and how the hell could "doctor who" be the question, the first question, when the time lords were not around at the beginning of time.
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They might not have been around at the beginning of time but the Doctor probably has been to the beginning of time which probably really confused whoever was supervising time. :V

The season wasn't bad but it just felt like it lacked any decent punches. No real oomph apart from a few episodes like the Hotel one.
 
Josan said:
When RTD was the show runner I couldn't wait for Moffat to take over. Now I find myself missing RTD. I thought he was great at character writing and a great setup man but incredibly lousy at resolutions. His S1 and S2 finales worked for me. S3 and S4 on the other hand rank right at the bottom for me for finales.
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Those last two RTD finales were absolutely horrifying. Pure fan wank.

I think Moffat is having trouble finding the right balance, and is having trouble sticking to the rules of the world. I like the approach of having overarching stories for seasons and even over a multiple seasons. But his first season suffered from a lot of uneven stories with too many plot holes, compensated by what I thought was a pretty clever way to eventually tie it all together.

In the second season I thought the individual stories were much stronger, especially The Doctor's Wife, but in the end he failed to tie everything together in a coherent manner. It felt like he had too much going on and couldn't turn it into one whole. Rory and Amy lose their daughter and basically spend five episodes going "Eh, whatever, she'll be fine" - there was so much potential there. And the end result was just stupid - it made the whole premise of the season feel cheap. It's a 'gotcha' moment which only serves to piss off viewers.
 
Sander said:
The Doctor's Wife
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That was written by Neil Gaiman though and it's a shame Moffat didn't try and tie it in more with the other episodes as it's one of my favourites.
 
I don't think it would have felt like as much of a cop-out if the Doctor that had died had been made out of the flesh stuff. That's what it seemed like it was building up to and technically it really would have been the Doctor dying since the flesh was supposed to be exactly identical in every way to the person it was imitating.

The thing I don't get is that those robots were shown to be jerky and very un-human, then when we see the robot Doctor it acts just like the real Doctor. That really didn't make sense to me.
 
Courier said:
The thing I don't get is that those robots were shown to be jerky and very un-human, then when we see the robot Doctor it acts just like the real Doctor. That really didn't make sense to me.
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Yes. Plus, it regenerates. The whole thing made no sense, because Moffat just randomly made it up.
 
Brother None said:
Yes. Plus, it regenerates. The whole thing made no sense, because Moffat just randomly made it up.
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Would the flesh be able to do the regeneration thing? I still think the flesh would have made a hell of a lot more sense than the robot suit.
 
Sander said:
I think Moffat is having trouble finding the right balance, and is having trouble sticking to the rules of the world. I like the approach of having overarching stories for seasons and even over a multiple seasons. But his first season suffered from a lot of uneven stories with too many plot holes, compensated by what I thought was a pretty clever way to eventually tie it all together.

In the second season I thought the individual stories were much stronger, especially The Doctor's Wife, but in the end he failed to tie everything together in a coherent manner. It felt like he had too much going on and couldn't turn it into one whole. Rory and Amy lose their daughter and basically spend five episodes going "Eh, whatever, she'll be fine" - there was so much potential there. And the end result was just stupid - it made the whole premise of the season feel cheap. It's a 'gotcha' moment which only serves to piss off viewers.
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Ah, but remember, in Moffat's view what we see as plot holes are really just our lack of ability to understand his brilliance. ;)

I completely agree with your points. It's very weak writing on Moffat's part. I can overlook weak points and plot holes to a degree but Amy and Rory just giving up on their daughter because they know she grows up to be River and everything's fine is utter BS.

RTD was known for re-writing a lot of scripts and while it can be seen as controlling it can/does help with continuity. Moffat wasted another opportunity there. We had two stories in a row where Amy and Rory became quite disillusioned with the Doctor then they're dropped off with a new house and car as a gift and it's all fine. Pfft.

Brother None said:
Courier said:
The thing I don't get is that those robots were shown to be jerky and very un-human, then when we see the robot Doctor it acts just like the real Doctor. That really didn't make sense to me.
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Yes. Plus, it regenerates. The whole thing made no sense, because Moffat just randomly made it up.
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He does that a lot.
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s4Czla6tXc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I think Sue from catering really makes this video.
 
Hadn't seen that before. Nice post. And yes, Sue from catering does indeed make the video. Nice to see the whole cast and crew having some fun.
 
Also

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/giaMRyn47Xg?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

This is making me miss the RTD-era Doctor Who too much.
 
That was better than any Doctor Who episode I've ever watched, which makes me think maybe the future episodes should be a full blown comedy / parody of itself. The shows become so camp, it might as well go all the way... :)
 
Brother None said:
Also

[spoiler:f295f1d2b6]<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/giaMRyn47Xg?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>[/spoiler:f295f1d2b6]

This is making me miss the RTD-era Doctor Who too much.
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I was going to post that yesterday but forgot.

Kind of makes you wonder what else the BBC is keeping though, seeing as they've only just released these years old videos.
 
Well that just... sucks. I just don't see DW as a movie. The only way I could ever see that working is if it were done (though hopefully done better) the way the X-Files handled its first movie, a bridge between seasons but written so that it could also stand on its own.

Between Moffat having his head so far up his "I'm So Clever" ass and this... Meh. Time to go pop a classic Fourth Doctor serial into the DVD player. Been a while since I've watched Genesis of the Daleks so that's where I'm off to!
 
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