Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Yeah, hang on a little bit, your dealings with Potema aren't over.

If you want the best quests in the game, try the Dark Brotherhood ( or go against it!) and the Thieve's Guild. The Thieves in particular have a bevy of great quests and a good story. Some Daedric quests are also sweet. Really the game has a lot of boring ass generic Radiant quests, but many original and involving one too. Ultimately, I think a game with that much content can't have super-awesome quests at every turn; even the older Fallouts or Planescape had their shares of fetch quests and dungeon crawling.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Bethesda really has to learn one thing. If they simply CAN NOT do epic situation/battles they should not try it. What ever if the engine cant support 40 people on the screen at the same time (Can you say Oblivion again ...) or if they are lazy or what ever then they should simply work around it. But it is not only Bethesda here. Vegas did the same with the "battle over the dam" albeit not that bad but still. You get always this feeling in the game "Now it has to rumble! 10 000 men here 10 000 men there!" everything works toward this climax. I mean it simply has to fail and disappoint. The Witcher for example did a much better job here by simply not showing everything all the time. Hell even Dragon Age did that "epic battle part" better. I remember just that one time underground fighting over a bridge while a whole army was marching under you.
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It really can't be that hard to design an engine that's capable of this.

I mean the Mount & Blade series has battles with dozens of people on screen at a time and it's an indie game series.

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Mount and Blade is awesome. It also isn't on consoles. Coincidence?
Heh, it's kinda unfair to say that, since it's pretty hard to stress a modern system with that game's graphics engine.
 
But the figures are much less animated and much less detailed.
 
Lexx said:
But the figures are much less animated and much less detailed.
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I'm just saying that it's possible to have more than ten people fighting at once.
 
*shrugs* yeah maybe. But M&M looks shit in my eyes. But that is just an opinion. The game is probably kick ass for what it offers. And I doubt the people in it are there for graphic.

On the other side Arma 2 managed it as well. but interiors ... does not look that great there. Not to mention the game is so full of bugs its not funny anymore.

Thing is just I am saying if you konw the limitations of your engine or you simply know you cant achieve something in time then you have to find ways how to work around it.

I mean the past Fallout games sure have not been that awesome RPGs because they offered you a huge landscape trying to simulate a whole "war" in front of you. Same with Baldurs Gate to give a more "fantasy like" example. Yet those "old" games still managed to simulate a form of "size" where you always had the feeling that you are not just in one single town. And seriously. No open world games beats the things you get offered in BG2s town Athkatla (fucking hate this name ... so hard to remember I always write it wrong spend literally 5 minutes to google it)
 
Courier said:
Lexx said:
But the figures are much less animated and much less detailed.
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I'm just saying that it's possible to have more than ten people fighting at once.
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Bethesda's excuse has always been that their engine can't handle too many npc's at the same time. but I really think this is bullshit. last time I played FO3 I used a mod to put more enemies in the game. Feral Ghouls often spawned in the 20's and above, with no lag whatsoever.
 
The engine is still pretty crappy though.

I really liked Gmod because you could spawn an army of Combine soldiers and freely play. Source is really a good engine.
 
aenemic said:
Courier said:
Lexx said:
But the figures are much less animated and much less detailed.
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I'm just saying that it's possible to have more than ten people fighting at once.
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Bethesda's excuse has always been that their engine can't handle too many npc's at the same time. but I really think this is bullshit. last time I played FO3 I used a mod to put more enemies in the game. Feral Ghouls often spawned in the 20's and above, with no lag whatsoever.
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Then you must have a pretty good computer (it heavily depends on your hardware anyway). Skyrim, as example, starts to run extremely shitty on my system as well, as soon as there are 10+ npcs around me. When I had done the first "take over the town!"-quest, it felt like doing the Hoover Dam battle in FNV once again, just in medieval times. If there are only a few npcs around me, Skyrim is running very fine. So yes, the engine can't handle many npcs very good (their faces, etc- that's why many npcs in FNV and in Skyrim wear full-head helmets).
 
Lexx said:
(their faces, etc- that's why many npcs in FNV and in Skyrim wear full-head helmets).
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Isn't that to dumb down the repetativeness of npc guards all having the same two or three heads? In New Vegas the faces were still rendered under the Legion and NCR helmets during the hoover dam fight. Well apart from the NCR blokes in Power Armour but there were only about two of them.
 
It may be more of a console issue. Or AI in case of human NPCs, Feral Ghouls do little else than just charge at whoever is closest. Or just the sheer chaos that can easily be caused by having many NPCs fight and hit each other, potentially including their own allies, and one can see what the problem could be.

On that note, using a Scroll of Mayhem in a crowded area is comedy gold. Bonus points if there are essential NPCs who keep taking on the incoming guards. Illusion magic in general has always been my favorite.
 
Another small weird engine glitch they probably won't fix. The first person camera height can't exceed 1.0. This is fine for most races but both High Elves and Nords about 1.1 meaning they are shorter in first person view.
Third person camera is fine however.
 
Alphadrop said:
Lexx said:
(their faces, etc- that's why many npcs in FNV and in Skyrim wear full-head helmets).
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Isn't that to dumb down the repetativeness of npc guards all having the same two or three heads? In New Vegas the faces were still rendered under the Legion and NCR helmets during the hoover dam fight. Well apart from the NCR blokes in Power Armour but there were only about two of them.
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Faces can be randomly generated, and in the Hoover Dam battle if you try to loot the bodies of dead NCR/Legion soldiers you willfidn that you can't take their armors, even if they are in their inventories at all, and wear scarfs over their mouths and black googles.
 
its probably mainly a console thing.

Just compare BF3 on PC with BF3 on the console.

I am sure if Skyrim would have been done for the PC first and with the PC in mind they could have achieved much more. But it is sad that PC gaming gets sucha midle finger by developers as the consoles are now 3 or 4 generations behind the PC hardware. I mean my system is rather mediocre but I can play most games without many issues. Not that I am complaining really. But still. Without it there is no progression. Oblivion had those "we cant show much people issue!" and that made the world a rather boring and dull place I mean com on a HUUUGE town with 10 people ? And Skyrim has pretty much the same problem all over again. The Witcher feelt much better in that part where at leats the locations feelt like places filled with "life".
 
alright alright

Thesis: Bethesda is dumb.

Proof: Shouts

Interesting concept. What actually is their purpose in the game ? From all those "shouts" only a handfull are really usefull. And thx to some absurd "level scaling" where certain enemies have an health pool so huge that it is ridiculous you will do not much against them. It seems that only "storm" and "push" are the only really usefull shouts. But storm cant be used "inside" and it will hit any of your companions/allies as well which makes it more or less useless if you consider that most of the maps are well inside of ruins/graves.

I really think Beth droped the ball on this one. They could have done much more with those "Dragon" powers. It really does not give me the feeling of having some kind of special and unique weapon.
 
I'm waiting for the DLC to come out since Bethesda seems to have had a case of expansion-that's-better-than-the-game-itis with their past two "RPG" games (See: Shivering Isles and Point Lookout).
 
Walpknut said:
My argonian can wear full face helmets, it must be incredibly uncomfortable to do that.
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Yea, the guard helmets look like they really scrunch the snout in.

Walpknut said:
Faces can be randomly generated, and in the Hoover Dam battle if you try to loot the bodies of dead NCR/Legion soldiers you willfidn that you can't take their armors, even if they are in their inventories at all, and wear scarfs over their mouths and black googles.
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I checked them in the GECK (was making the scarf and goggles lootable) and there are only about 6 different troopers, the gamebryo engine can't completely randomly generate faces. Rather it has a main npc and then 3 or 4 sub npcs that are linked by the same inventory and scripts as the main one that spawn where you place it.
Randomises it a bit and you don't notice unless you look closely or in the case of hoover damn make their face masks lootable.
 
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