Fallout 4 Bible: Bethesda will never make a good Fallout game

[Battlecross]

I don't know, maybe the transition in FO1 is "forced" in a way, but by that point you had many encounters with the Mutants and the Children of the Cathedral so they don't come out of nowhere. In FO2, you also have a lot of opportunities to see the Enclave doing their stuff before even getting the GECK (You can even get to their base), in New Vegas you don't even need to focus on the revenge thing at all, you can even complete the entire NCR quest line without talking to Benny and you experience both big Factions on the way to Vegas.
In FO3 tho, the Enclave are virtually non existent outside of their radio station and you can't even talk to the BOS before the attack on Project Purity.

Don't get me wrong, the plot in Fallout 3 was horrible. I just felt that the the events somewhat fitted more with each other.

In Fallout New Vegas, I found it strange that as soon as you are seen exiting the Lucky 38/Tops, all factions somehow want you to do all their work while you're just a nobody they have no reason to trust. In Fallout 1 and 2, you influenced the fate of post-war societies too but it was usually by a certain chain of circumstances, while I felt that in NV, the factions basically say to you : You're the main player, decide the fate of everyone.

This makes complete sense with the Yes Man and is okay with the the other factions questline too, but their overreliance on you seems a little forced.

Unfortunately in all these games that want you to be a "nobody" that you can become as the player tend to have weird things to make them work in the story. FO3 and NV both have this issue where you're like a big player in the story but you're not really because you're a mute who only converses through text and people love/hate you based on distant actions, it's all weird. I'm guessing this is why Bethesda went the voiced protagonist route this time which I am not hugely happy about, but we'll see how it plays out. Could be worse or better, I don't really know.

 

[TorontoReign]

I don't know, maybe the transition in FO1 is "forced" in a way, but by that point you had many encounters with the Mutants and the Children of the Cathedral so they don't come out of nowhere. In FO2, you also have a lot of opportunities to see the Enclave doing their stuff before even getting the GECK (You can even get to their base), in New Vegas you don't even need to focus on the revenge thing at all, you can even complete the entire NCR quest line without talking to Benny and you experience both big Factions on the way to Vegas.
In FO3 tho, the Enclave are virtually non existent outside of their radio station and you can't even talk to the BOS before the attack on Project Purity.

You're the main player, decide the fate of everyone.

This makes complete sense with the Yes Man and is okay with the the other factions questline too, but their overreliance on you seems a little forced.

Eh, Fallout 3 has the most egregious cases of this. You are constantly mentioned on the radio as if any little thing you do is being observed by unseen wastelanders. The whole ending is based on your sacrifice even though it is completely hamfisted.

I don't know, maybe the transition in FO1 is "forced" in a way, but by that point you had many encounters with the Mutants and the Children of the Cathedral so they don't come out of nowhere. In FO2, you also have a lot of opportunities to see the Enclave doing their stuff before even getting the GECK (You can even get to their base), in New Vegas you don't even need to focus on the revenge thing at all, you can even complete the entire NCR quest line without talking to Benny and you experience both big Factions on the way to Vegas.
In FO3 tho, the Enclave are virtually non existent outside of their radio station and you can't even talk to the BOS before the attack on Project Purity.

Don't get me wrong, the plot in Fallout 3 was horrible. I just felt that the the events somewhat fitted more with each other.


In Fallout New Vegas, I found it strange that as soon as you are seen exiting the Lucky 38/Tops, all factions somehow want you to do all their work while you're just a nobody they have no reason to trust. In Fallout 1 and 2, you influenced the fate of post-war societies too but it was usually by a certain chain of circumstances, while I felt that in NV, the factions basically say to you : You're the main player, decide the fate of everyone.


This makes complete sense with the Yes Man and is okay with the the other factions questline too, but their overreliance on you seems a little forced.

Unfortunately in all these games that want you to be a "nobody" that you can become as the player tend to have weird things to make them work in the story. FO3 and NV both have this issue where you're like a big player in the story but you're not really because you're a mute who only converses through text and people love/hate you based on distant actions, it's all weird. I'm guessing this is why Bethesda went the voiced protagonist route this time which I am not hugely happy about, but we'll see how it plays out. Could be worse or better, I don't really know.

That mute protagonist has dialog like most cRPG's did in the 90's. You just don't hear it.

 

[Askorti]

In Fallout New Vegas, I found it strange that as soon as you are seen exiting the Lucky 38/Tops, all factions somehow want you to do all their work while you're just a nobody they have no reason to trust. In Fallout 1 and 2, you influenced the fate of post-war societies too but it was usually by a certain chain of circumstances, while I felt that in NV, the factions basically say to you : You're the main player, decide the fate of everyone.

This makes complete sense with the Yes Man and is okay with the the other factions questline too, but their overreliance on you seems a little forced.

I see it differently. Nobody comes and goes from the Lucky 38, so whoever is suddenly seen exiting it, has to be someone of importance. And so for example NCR wants to capitalize on this person and make him do the dirty work. At this point you're not deciding anything yet, you're still a fetch boy, the only difference is that you're playing a bigger game this time. Only after you prove to be of real value to the factions do you get more influence.
Also, the NCR relies on you because they are spread extremely thin. They barely have the soldiers to throw at the legion, while experienced and seasoned soldiers are in a very short supply for them. It's no wonder they try their shot with a courier known for being the only person to have "met" Mr. House. It's a safe assumption that you're a big shot.

 

[Sergeant Politeness]

Voiced protagonist is gonna suck IMO. It will just limit the number of dialogue in the game. I don't see how they could possibly create an emotional narrative in a game with the primary goal of being somewhat of a sandbox RPG.

 

[Gizmojunk]

FO3 and NV both have this issue where you're like a big player in the story but you're not really because you're a mute who only converses through text...

I've never understood why this is an issue; or even worth the notice of the players? Is it really/actually/literally required that the PC parrot the text for the player to perceive the conversation as having taken place? I do not understand how any person can interpret the PC as mute, and/or communicating via text. They both talked, but you already know what the PC said in advance, so why on Earth does anyone need (or care) to sit through a verbal repeat of it all?

I know it's a common complaint, but this just seems as bad (or worse) than those that truly believe that the pipboy is a teleportation device. I have read posts asking why James could not escape when he was wearing a pipboy ~they truly ~unbelievably, had the assumption that using the pipboy map makes the wearer disappear, and reappear somewhere else.

*It always reminds me of that episode of "Growing Pains", where Kirk Cameron [as Mike Seaver] turns on the TV, and suddenly realizes that the shows play whether or not he's watching them or even has the set turned on.

 

[TheChosen1]

Well, I'm not even sure Beth incorporated passing of time while you fast travel. IIRC you could use a Stealth Boy/Chem, travel to the other side of the map and still have the full effects.

 

[Askorti]

Voiced protagonist is gonna suck IMO. It will just limit the number of dialogue in the game. I don't see how they could possibly create an emotional narrative in a game with the primary goal of being somewhat of a sandbox RPG.

Emotional narrative where reading your dialogue options is... optional? There is absolutely no reason to read them, since all you need to know is which button is for approval, negation question and neutral stance. From that point on you can just spam the button of your choice. And the voiced protagonist is not even the worst part of this all.

 

[Sergeant Politeness]

I never understood the fact that some people think it destroy immersion to read text too. You know what is unimmersive for me? Bad dialogue.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Well, I'm not even sure Beth incorporated passing of time while you fast travel. IIRC you could use a Stealth Boy/Chem, travel to the other side of the map and still have the full effects.

In fact they did. IIRC it takes the PC about three hours to walk to Rivet City from Vault 101 using the so called 'Fast Travel'; you can see this by checking the time.
(A shame they don't actually enforce anything time sensitive in the game. Makes this moot. )

Map travel was a broken exploit in Oblivion, and then in FO3, for those very reasons; drug & spell effects don't expire on the world map... And also that there is zero chance of interruption or ambush along the way.

 

[TheChosen1]

TEH MODDERS HAVE FIX IT!

 

[Walpknut]

Do you want to force the babies to read, think and use their imagination? Preposterous! Here is a generic sounding white dude, and you better like it!!!

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, I'm not even sure Beth incorporated passing of time while you fast travel. IIRC you could use a Stealth Boy/Chem, travel to the other side of the map and still have the full effects.

In fact they did. IIRC it takes the PC about three hours to walk to Rivet City from Vault 101 using the so called 'Fast Travel'; you can see this by checking the time.
(A shame they don't actually enforce anything time sensitive in the game. Makes this moot. )

Map travel was a broken exploit in Oblivion, and then in FO3, for those very reasons; drug & spell effects don't expire on the world map... And also that there is zero chance of interruption or ambush along the way.

And even if they do it, fast travel is always faster than your normal means of travel.

 

[Battlecross]

FO3 and NV both have this issue where you're like a big player in the story but you're not really because you're a mute who only converses through text...

I've never understood why this is an issue; or even worth the notice of the players? Is it really/actually/literally required that the PC parrot the text for the player to perceive the conversation as having taken place? I do not understand how any person can interpret the PC as mute, and/or communicating via text. They both talked, but you already know what the PC said in advance, so why on Earth does anyone need (or care) to sit through a verbal repeat of it all?

I know it's a common complaint, but this just seems as bad (or worse) than those that truly believe that the pipboy is a teleportation device. I have read posts asking why James could not escape when he was wearing a pipboy ~they truly ~unbelievably, had the assumption that using the pipboy map makes the wearer disappear, and reappear somewhere else.

*It always reminds me of that episode of "Growing Pains", where Kirk Cameron [as Mike Seaver] turns on the TV, and suddenly realizes that the shows play whether or not he's watching them or even has the set turned on.

You don't need a verbal repeat but I'm explaining the disconnect it creates in the player sometimes.

 

[Gizmojunk]

You don't need a verbal repeat but I'm explaining the disconnect it creates in the player sometimes.

I understand there is a disconnect with some players, I just don't understand why that is; [and I mean that it's disappointing that it is].

I have no qualms with a voiced PC... But a voiced PC generally works best with a fixed (or nearly fixed) protagonist. It works well in Witcher and Arx Fatalis; in both games you play a fairly defined PC, and with a voice that fits them. It is when you have an RPG that allows tremendous customization that the voiced option can become untenable. It is not cost effective to have 30 protagonist voices to use with hundreds of possible PCs ~not all of them human, and of different genders.

In a game like Fallout (and even FO3), my PC sounds however it best suits me to imagine it; it's done just as easily as imagining a bad Schwarzenegger impression. But in FO4, the PCs dialog WILL have been limited in scope, to make it manageable. Unlike Fallout or Fallout 3, they cannot change their mind, add to, or rework a conversation without spending the money for additional recording ~that prioritizes change, and almost surely prevents change that is not seen as worth the expense. In Fallout, such could be done over a weekend with minimal costs... It's just editing text. Fallout had recorded NPC dialog that directed the PC to an assistant for details. It was a natural transition. Loxley hires the PC for a job, and says to speak with Jasmine for the details... those details could be anything they wanted. The conversation could be pages deep, and conceivably involve a dozen quests that didn't exist when they recorded the voice talent. 'Fully voiced' does impose limitations on the narrative, and what extent the player can change that narrative.

If Bethesda had decided [late] to allow Dipping or slow change from FEV exposure (like Harold), they could not do it without altering and adding to their pre-recorded dialog collection. ~or not do a damn thing, and have the changes not be apparent in the voice of the PC, or the voiced reactions of the NPCs. If I made [this guy, below] as my character in FO4 ...he'd still sound like Brian Delaney, and that's what's wrong with using full voice in a complex RPG with custom characters.

Spoiler

Bethesda is not likely to include complete variations of NPC dialog for when the PC is a Ghoul, or a supermutant, or a cyborg; nor are they likely to duplicate both protagonists [genders] for variant PC voices that are not the standard normal every-man, and every-woman.

And then there is the modding situation. Anyone that makes an ambitious mod is probably going to have to supply voiced Brian Delaney and Courtenay Taylor impersonations to have the PC interact with their NPCs in any but the most generic way ~or stand out like rotten egg in the game by using just text. Seamless integration is likely impossible without additional effort; and possibly expense.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Voiced dialogue limits what your character can say, while text is extremely open and easy (kind of) to make.

 

[Walpknut]

If the lack of a fixed voice causes disconnect then what about the UI? The fact that you are looking through a screen? The fact that characters don't imitate every small breath of air or twitch of muscle? Why opt for a generic gruff white guy voice instead of your own voice or even your own imagined voices? The gruff white guy voice is already pretty cliche and boring in linear games, no idea why someone would think that a game whose premise is to let the player supposedly play whatever character they want would benefit from that? It also actively limits the amount of dialogue the player character can say because otherwise the company would go bankrupt.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Yeah I hate how no matter how you look, you're going to sound like a well spoken gruff BORING American accent.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

A voiced protagonist is just another limitation to be saddled with (in addition to a fleshed out backstory). Frankly, I think such things are very poor taste in any RPG.

I can use my imagination and prefer to come up with how my character sounds in my head when reading the text. For example, my Legion gal from FO:NV hails from New Mexico and sounds pretty much like this when she talks:



Meanwhile, my BOS chick sounds like Kim Carnes... raspy-voiced basically.

In Fallout 4, all my characters will sound like Courtenay Taylor--what a real treat for me. Not to mention, as others have pointed out, it brings about even more limitations by curtailing dialogue options in order to cut costs.

As far as I'm concerned a voiced PC in an RPG such as Fallout is just a regressively stupid and unnecessary feature.

 

[Walpknut]

I can't even make a Black Dynamite run in Fallout 4 either....

 

[Atomic Postman]

I have no idea why or how anyone could possibly think a voiced protagonist with a basic dialogue wheel would be a suitable replacement to Fallout's previous dialogue system.

At this rate they might as well cut all of that and replace dialogue with cutscenes, with the player being able to press the right or left trigger on the controller (Because who plays on PC? Nerds? We don't care about those.)to make their character good or evil, like the Paragon and Renegade in Mass Effect. People liked Mass Effect right?