Fallout 4 coming out on November 10, free mobile spin-off out now

Actually no, even with all DLC in New Vegas you need to find all the possible skill books, do very specific things and just meta game to hell and back. Also of note is that this is only achievable with all the DLCs which also offers a "cap me at level 30 trait" and the DLCs are extra content parallel to the game, not the vanilla game which is what the argument is about.
 
Your character could only be good at everything in 3.

With all the DLC installed so the level cap is 50, it's really easy to hit 100 in every skill in New Vegas. You can't be "the best" at everything since you probably won't have all of melee perks, all of the unarmed perks, all of the explosives perks, etc. but you're going to be really good at everything and which things you are "simply the best at" is more of a function of your perks than your skills.

The point is now you can become incredibly powerful a lot easier. It took quite some time to max your skills out in New Vegas. Anyway, New Vegas was only a shadow of what the original Fallout games were. Even it is garbage compared to Fallout 1 and 2. People go on and on to praise it forgetting that it was only the best of a bad situation.

We lost traits. Skills are practically non existent. Perks have taken place of everything basically, aside from the generic SPECIAL system.
 
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When the website says "Join Multiple Factions" they probably forgot to add "All at the same time". Just remember the guilds in Skyrim and all the Beth babies complaining about quests closing off for helping rival factions....
 
When the website says "Join Multiple Factions" they probably forgot to add "All at the same time". Just remember the guilds in Skyrim and all the Beth babies complaining about quests closing off for helping rival factions....

It's frankly stupid how often the hero of Tamriel has been the archmage, the head of the dark brotherhood, the head of whatever the biggest mercenary group is, and the guildmaster of the thieves guild AT THE SAME TIME.

Not that I'm saying the game should make it absolutely impossible to do these things, but being in charge of one thing should make it more noticeably more difficult to be in charge of something else.

Hopefully Fallout 4 will just hold it to "this group really likes you" not "you are now the Provost of the Institute"
 
Have to ask, what do you guys lose with being able to join every faction there is? If you don't want to, you can choose not to...
 
Have to ask, what do you guys lose with being able to join every faction there is? If you don't want to, you can choose not to...
The issue isn't the choice in itself, but that choices in Bethesda's games have no consequences. That is how they design their whole games, from the ground up, the philosophy being that the player should always be able to do absolutely everything. The only way for that to work, is if you severely limit the consequences of the player's choices. Without realistic and interesting reactivity a game becomes not only dull, but the very antithesis of a role-playing game.

Just look at Skyrim. For the Bethesda philosophy of letting you simultaneously become arch mage, head of the Fighter's Guild (a.k.a. The Companions) and Thief's Guild to work, they also must let you master the three very different skill sets of mage, fighter and thief. So you don't have to chose between them. When all character builds can excel in more or less everything, what you get is only one build in the end. The only thing that differs is in what order you master the different skills. And this goes for basically the entire game: giving you all the choices in actuality means you aren't given any real choices at all, because real choices have real consequences. In Bethesda's games you can shoot your dad in the face and he won't even scold you. When you blow up Megaton, he at least expresses some disappointment in you, but don't worry, tossing water at a few dudes here and there and you can still become Savior of the Wastelands in spite of just having murdered half of the people living there.
 
The issue isn't the choice in itself, but that choices in Bethesda's games have no consequences. That is how they design their whole games, from the ground up, the philosophy being that the player should always be able to do absolutely everything. The only way for that to work, is if you severely limit the consequences of the player's choices. Without realistic and interesting reactivity a game becomes not only dull, but the very antithesis of a role-playing game.

Just look at Skyrim. For the Bethesda philosophy of letting you simultaneously become arch mage, head of the Fighter's Guild (a.k.a. The Companions) and Thief's Guild to work, they also must let you master the three very different skill sets of mage, fighter and thief. So you don't have to chose between them. When all character builds can excel in more or less everything, what you get is only one build in the end. The only thing that differs is in what order you master the different skills. And this goes for basically the entire game: giving you all the choices in actuality means you aren't given any real choices at all, because real choices have real consequences. In Bethesda's games you can shoot your dad in the face and he won't even scold you. When you blow up Megaton, he at least expresses some disappointment in you, but don't worry, tossing water at a few dudes here and there and you can still become Savior of the Wastelands in spite of just having murdered half of the people living there.


Oh, i was expecting something unreasonable. Yea I agree with what you said. It's just that since they did it so that guilds don't interact with each other and main quest (except a few dialog mentions) it's fine that they don't make you create a new character for a new guild, and start everything from square 1.

About the skills mastering, here's my table:

God like PC is ok:
- game is open world or sand box
- game has no time limit ( other then the one you give it)
- game is SP, 1 PC ( 0 or more useless NPC's)
- game has no respec
examples: F2,3, NW; TES-4,5 Dying light, M&B
God like PC is not needed:
- linear game
- game is team based ( you can swithch roles from melee to mage...)
- game has respec
examples: Kotor, NWN, BG, IWD, TWitcher 1-3, Two worlds2 ...
 
About the skills mastering, here's my table:

God like PC is ok:
- game is open world or sand box
- game has no time limit ( other then the one you give it)
- game is SP, 1 PC ( 0 or more useless NPC's)
- game has no respec
examples: F2,3, NW; TES-4,5 Dying light, M&B

Saying that I disagree with this is an understatement. I have replayed Fallout 1-2-NW at least 20 times because there was always something new to discover or new ways to do things thanks to the "not master of everything" design. Yours seems to be the attitude of a "one and done" kind of player.
 
People who don't understand RPGs trying to decide what's better for the genre. That's what Bethesda brought....
 
God like PC is the worst thing that a game that calls itself an RPG could allow.
Even Mass Effect, which is very linear makes you decide what kind of character you are, what's best, you can't master everything there is in one playthrough and to see all that it has to offer, you simply have to replay it at least a couple of times. All RPGs should share at least this one trait, replayability. In Skyrim, there is very little of it, since you can be everything in just one playthrough. Play it once and you have seen it all if you're patient enough.
 
When the website says "Join Multiple Factions" they probably forgot to add "All at the same time". Just remember the guilds in Skyrim and all the Beth babies complaining about quests closing off for helping rival factions....

It's frankly stupid how often the hero of Tamriel has been the archmage, the head of the dark brotherhood, the head of whatever the biggest mercenary group is, and the guildmaster of the thieves guild AT THE SAME TIME.

Not that I'm saying the game should make it absolutely impossible to do these things, but being in charge of one thing should make it more noticeably more difficult to be in charge of something else.

Hopefully Fallout 4 will just hold it to "this group really likes you" not "you are now the Provost of the Institute"

Not to mention that some factions might be simply completely opposed to each other. Up to the point where they show open hostility even. People can get in to fights for much lesser things than factions membership. I feel Morrowind was really on the right track here, as far as Beth games goes. Particularly as becoming the master of a guild/faction was not always easy to achieve. Even though it could be pretty ridiculous sometimes because of the fetch quests. But oh well. At least it made it more believable. I wish they would have actually improved that part in their games instead of simnplyfing it to the point where it becomes almost useless.

I am pretty certain if F4 will have some like guilds or factions that you will do 3 or 4 quests of epic proportions for them where they simply have no other choice but to make you the leader of their faction. I mean you saved them afterall! But which in the end doesn't change anything since they will carry on like nothing ever happend no matter if you're their leader now or not because Beth games are full of choices - if you want to call it that, but they have almost zero consequences.
 
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In Beth games you only have the choice of WHEN to do something, but no consequences indicate that yo udon't even need to think when you do things because it doesn't really matter.
 
I would prefer something like Age of Decadence style. You only see a part of the story depending on your build, your faction of choice( including the I stand alone scenario) and your choices. This caters the player to replay the game trying different builds, factions and paths to have the full experience. Unfortunately this doesn't work well with today's gamer, who have everything handheld.
 
I would prefer something like Age of Decadence style. You only see a part of the story depending on your build, your faction of choice( including the I stand alone scenario) and your choices. This caters the player to replay the game trying different builds, factions and paths to have the full experience. Unfortunately this doesn't work well with today's gamer, who have everything handheld.

Ironically, the reason for this is that we have too many choices in our ever growing game library. Going by some stats I seen, it is easy to conclude that the vast majority of gamers prefer to play another game for a different experience than replay the same one for tiny little content twist they could google on youtube... So its not really hand holding, as much as resource management on the Dev's part.
 
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It appears Fallout 4 won't even improve on Unarmed weaponry, such as Dual Wielding Power Fists. Never made sense that the user would just grab ONE Power Fist and just shove it on his/her right hand be done with it. Out of any weapon type, Unarmed is the only one that excels with dual-wielding weapons :/ I wonder why, because honestly, if they showed that in the gameplay trailer of combat, I'm sure people would go nuts about it.
 
The PIP-Boy kinda screws with that. Wouldn't fit on the left hand unless they switched to a hand-held model.

I miss the Big Frigger Power Fists.
 
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