Far Harbor Official Discussion

Send patrols out to scavenge shitholes for tech to preserve while simultaneously wiping out 200+ years of institute tech, seems legit. I will say though that the BOS is the best written faction in FO4 though.
 
0wing said:
Why destroy the Institute the player character will get the leadership over with anyway and can pass to BoS anyway?
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I explained this earlier.

"You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. To once again bring up that Talus quote I posted earlier: "Wear our Power Armor as a symbol of hope as you walk the wasteland, for someday when the world is ready we will surface and restore our battered Earth." And here is one from our beloved Veronica: "Once upon a time [our purpose] was about technology. Controlling it so it couldn't destroy us again."

Destroying the Institute is a decisive act that seems confusing at first (after all, can't all that tech be used to their benefit?) so I can understand your confusion, except Maxson knows that this technology is powerful - and that kind of power corrupts beyond all measure. How long until he'd compromise the Brotherhood's ideals and start fielding synths, to preserve the Brotherhood's manpower? How long until they start copying members' minds into synths, like with Nick, to ensure they survive? And bit by bit, they become the very entity they despise. Maxson knows that, because the Brotherhood has gone down this path before, degenerating from an isolationist, but fundamentally well-intentioned group, to another raider tribe, except with fancier guns.

Whatever's lost is mere chump change compared to what was gained and preserved: The soul of the Brotherhood and humanity."
 
THIJAKA said:
I explained this earlier.
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You didn't. First, if Maxson's so strong personality, he won't be corrupted. And second, tell me, why Enclave's leftover tech after Adams didn't made anyone corrupted? The human replicator center doesn't look so advanced in comparison with Enclave either. And besides synth, what, no other useful tech? The teleporter for example.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Right now it is a Cult of Personality that revolves around Maxson that follows some of the tenets of the Brotherhood.
The East Coast Elders would strongly disagree with someone like the current Maxson to risk important assets like Power Armor, not to mention something like the Prydwen out on missions such as the one that brought the BOS to the Commonwealth as they know these can not be replaced.
In their eyes Arthur Maxson would be as much 'chasing a white whale', hunting down the Institute for no reason other that they might be a threat as Elder Lyons did before him in the DC Wasteland, trying to protect settlements against raiders, Super Mutants and the Enclave.
(In fact despite having 'rebuild' the BOS according to Bethesda, turning it again into a large army, Maxson's BOS is not even capable of pacifying and controlling the DC Wasteland, and yet decided to take his army's main weapon to a region where the BOS has no influence or allies at all.)

Instead they would probably order Arthur Maxson to get the hell back to the West Coast and bring those resources and personnel with him as the West Coast BOS needs it against the NCR, instead of letting him play soldier at the East Coast, searching for possible enemies.
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The Brotherhood has always been avidly against technology being used in the wrong hands, thus their belief in the preservation and protecting of it. But the Institute is a highly different matter, they have created what the Brotherhood see's as an abomination; technology with a mind of it's own. To them something like that is a risk to mankind, and just like they helped stop the Master and the Unity, they would stop humanity from its greatest threat; itself.

The Institute had created rogue technology with the ability to think for itself. For the Brotherhood there would be no reason to preserve this, as it's the kind of technology that destroyed their world, but now with the ability to rationalize, think and destroy of it's own accord.

There is no preserving that technology, only destroying it.
 
THIJAKA said:
Yep, I did state this was their primary motivation and goal in the post you quoted, if you bothered to read it you'd know that.

"preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them."

^ an actual quote from me, it was nice of you to reiterate it though, as it's essentially the exact same quote. Preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can one day be used to help them (the future generations). It's pretty much exactly what I said, so nice reading you did there mate. :)

And there is a key phrase in that statement "future generations." By 2287, over 200 years since the factions founding, now is the future, and it's time to grace the generations of it with a taste of said technology (not all, some) with a secure monarchistic state under the control of the Brotherhood.
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That was a quote from the page you linked. And it is fundamentally different than what you said. They preserve technology, they don't destroy it. The destruction of synths and the institute would be fundamentally against their teachings. Just because the east coast BoS has started to, outwardly, use their technology to help mankind, does not mean they won't continue to preserve technology and knowledge for future generations. Destroying the institute does not help that end goal, and, in fact, hinders it.
 
THIJAKA said:
The Brotherhood has always been avidly against technology being used in the wrong hands, thus their belief in the preservation and protecting of it. But the Institute is a highly different matter, they have created what the Brotherhood see's as an abomination; technology with a mind of it's own. To them something like that is a risk to mankind, and just like they helped stop the Master and the Unity, they would stop humanity from its greatest threat; itself.

The Institute had created rogue technology with the ability to think for itself. For the Brotherhood there would be no reason to preserve this, as it's the kind of technology that destroyed their world, but now with the ability to rationalize, think and destroy of it's own accord.

There is no preserving that technology, only destroying it.
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Huh, i could have swore they were also doing work in agriculture and weapons, maybe I was at a different Institute. Sarcasm aside there is way more reason outside of head cannon to take the institute mostly intact.
 
0wing said:
You didn't. First, if Maxson's so strong personality, he won't be corrupted. And second, tell me, why Enclave's leftover tech after Adams didn't made anyone corrupted? The human replicator center doesn't look so advanced in comparison with Enclave either. And besides synth, what, no other useful tech? The teleporter for example.
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Having access to advanced helicopters is different to having access to the ability to create life itself, derp.

Plus, they do access schematics and information that the Institute possesses, during the quest Outside the Wire in which the scribes begin to analyse the data. They just primarily destroy the Institute's more lethal technologies, such as synths, their primary forces and a highly dangerous nuclear reactor. At an admitted loss of an already built teleporter, despite the fact they already have access to the schematics of it and could have helped you build one in the main quest. Did you even play the game?
 
THIJAKA said:
The Brotherhood has always been avidly against technology being used in the wrong hands, thus their belief in the preservation and protecting of it. But the Institute is a highly different matter, they have created what the Brotherhood see's as an abomination; technology with a mind of it's own. To them something like that is a risk to mankind, and just like they helped stop the Master and the Unity, they would stop humanity from its greatest threat; itself.

The Institute had created rogue technology with the ability to think for itself. For the Brotherhood there would be no reason to preserve this, as it's the kind of technology that destroyed their world, but now with the ability to rationalize, think and destroy of it's own accord.

There is no preserving that technology, only destroying it.
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That technology could help mankind more than anything the brotherhood has. The medical and scientific advancements that can come from studying that technology is incredible. In the wrong hands it can cause chaos, but that is the point of the BoS. They believe themselves to be the right hands.

And synths is only one of the institute's advancements. If they deem that technology too dangerous, destroy it, but the rest of the technology is perfectly safe and usable.


Not only that, but is all AI now "to dangerous"? Are they now tech-priests, worshiping technology, but fearing that which can think for it'self. Fearing to create or build new technology?
 
Spacemunkey said:
Huh, i could have swore they were also doing work in agriculture and weapons, maybe I was at a different Institute. Sarcasm aside there is way more reason outside of head cannon to take the institute mostly intact.
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It's not headcannon man, it's the character beliefs stated several times in the game, refer back to the Maxson and Danse quotes I posted earlier.

I know I'm coming across a bit of a Bethesda fan-boy. But I'm honestly not, I hate a good deal of what they did in Fallout 4 but the Brotherhood is certainly not a part of the bad heap.
 
To them something like that is a risk to mankind, and just like they helped stop the Master and the Unity, they would stop humanity from its greatest threat; itself.
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They couldn't give a shit about the rest of mankind, Veronica made it clear that the BOS is waiting for the rest of humanity to go extinct so that they can inherit the Earth.
The only reason why they helped the Vault Dweller against the Master and the Unity was because the Vault Dweller convinced them it was in their interest.
When the BOS first found out about the Super Mutants their immediate strategy was to fortify their position and wait until the Super Mutants would go extinct. The Vault Dweller had to convince them that they were wrong about that as as long as Mariposa and the Vats existed the Super Mutants would increase in numbers.

They did nothing to increase their numbers after the events of Fallout 1 and in 2 it came back biting them in their asses as when the Enclave appeared they could do nothing but monitor their movements and activity on the West Coast.
They actually needed an outsider to infiltrate Navarro and retrieve the Vertibird plans.
It was also clear that the BOS had no intention to undertake action against the Enclave or warn for example NCR, the closest thing to a government with an army that a pre war group with advanced technology had appeared and could cause problem.

The BOS may have problem with thinking technology, but unless it knocks on their door they are not going to bother looking for it or its source of origin.
 
THIJAKA said:
It's not headcannon man, it's the character beliefs stated several times in the game, refer back to the Maxson and Danse quotes I posted earlier.

I know I'm coming across a bit of a Bethesda fan-boy. But I'm honestly not, I hate a good deal of what they did in Fallout 4 but the Brotherhood is certainly not a part of the bad heap.
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You have speculated in multiple posts on what if scenarios.

THIJAKA said:
How long until he'd compromise the Brotherhood's ideals and start fielding synths, to preserve the Brotherhood's manpower? How long until they start copying members' minds into synths, like with Nick, to ensure they survive? And bit by bit, they become the very entity they despise. Maxson knows that, because the Brotherhood has gone down this path before, degenerating from an isolationist, but fundamentally well-intentioned group, to another raider tribe, except with fancier guns.

Whatever's lost is mere chump change compared to what was gained and preserved: The soul of the Brotherhood and humanity."
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All speculation and head cannon based on how YOU perceive the faction, so unless you are on the BGS writing staff it's head cannon. The BOS didn't seem too shy about collecting the RR robot and that thing practically predicts the future.
 
THIJAKA said:
Plus, they do access schematics and information that the Institute possesses, during the quest Outside the Wire in which the scribes begin to analyse the data. They just primarily destroy the Institute's more lethal technologies, such as synths, their primary forces and a highly dangerous nuclear reactor. At an admitted loss of an already built teleporter, despite the fact they already have access to the schematics of it and could have helped you build one in the main quest. Did you even play the game?
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They destroyed the nuclear reactor and caused the second apocalypse right inside the Boston. I mean, have you ever seen the explosion? Not to mention that no archaic nuclear plant work like nuclear bomb. (which Institute reactor really is, an 100300 yrs outdated technology) About residual radiation no one thought about? I call plot hole. It's believable for the Minuteprestons since they are no tech experts but not for the holy preservators BoS.
Hey yap, they possessed only the part of the whole teleport technology, the 'client'. The 'server' is shut down forever with it's blueprints and hardware. Did you even play the game or just quoting other people?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
They couldn't give a shit about the rest of mankind, Veronica made it clear that the BOS is waiting for the rest of humanity to go extinct so that they can inherit the Earth.
The only reason why they helped the Vault Dweller against the Master and the Unity was because the Vault Dweller convinced them it was in their interest.
When the BOS first found out about the Super Mutants their immediate strategy was to fortify their position and wait until the Super Mutants would go extinct. The Vault Dweller had to convince them that they were wrong about that as as long as Mariposa and the Vats existed the Super Mutants would increase in numbers.

They did nothing to increase their numbers after the events of Fallout 1 and in 2 it came back biting them in their asses as when the Enclave appeared they could do nothing but monitor their movements and activity on the West Coast.
They actually needed an outsider to infiltrate Navarro and retrieve the Vertibird plans.
It was also clear that the BOS had no intention to undertake action against the Enclave or warn for example NCR, the closest thing to a government with an army that a pre war group with advanced technology had appeared and could cause problem.

The BOS may have problem with thinking technology, but unless it knocks on their door they are not going to bother looking for it or its source of origin.
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Erm, the Brotherhood are a part of humanity. If they see the Institute as a threat to humanity it is thus a threat to them.

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Oh and BTW, you are still denying the fact that player character will be the leader of the Institute he can shut down without necessity of nuclear reactor go boom and kill everyone close enough to the Institute location. Did you even played the game for yourself?

Once again, reactor boom => big (unrealistic) explosion + radiation => causalties => no humanity preserved, mission failed.
 
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0wing said:
Oh and BTW, you are still denying the fact that player character will be the leader of the Institute he can shut down without necessity of nuclear reactor go boom and kill everyone close enough to the Institute location. Did you even played the game for yourself?
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The PC can't become leader of the Institute without destroying the Brotherhood, so the fact that the Brotherhood can't align with the Institute here is because of the lack of player dialogue, it's more the fault of that than the Brotherhood. Plus, I doubt the board of directors at the Institute would want to align with the wasteland scum they think they're better than. And yes I did quote one of my responses from a perfect one I saw on reddit a while ago, but I couldn't sum it up better myself. Feel free to laugh at me for that cheat XD.
 
THIJAKA said:
The PC can't become leader of the Institute without destroying the Brotherhood, so the fact that the Brotherhood can't align with the Institute here is because of the lack of player dialogue, it's more the fault of that than the Brotherhood.
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Ain't the whole buzz started because of lousy and stupid writing is, especially the Brotherhood? Yes it is. Vat it.
THIJAKA said:
Plus, I doubt the board of directors at the Institute would want to align with the wasteland scum they think they're better than.
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New leader - new rules.
Nuremberg Trials #2 for the crew is something BoS can afford, they're not wasteland savages after all.
THIJAKA said:
And yes I did quote one of my responses from a perfect one I saw on reddit a while ago, but I couldn't sum it up better myself. Feel free to laugh at me for that cheat XD.
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That's not funny.
 
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