Extreme might have been the wrong word, but compared to the majority of 4 it is pretty extreme and does go on to have an effect on your actions. It's no Arcade Gannon from New Vegas type development, but it sure is a step up from most side character development in the series. Plus, if different decisions are made this quest isn't even made available, which I appreciated.
Far Harbor Official Discussion
- Thread starter Ragemage
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Extreme might have been the wrong word, but compared to the majority of 4 it is pretty extreme and does go on to have an effect on your actions. It's no Arcade Gannon from New Vegas type development, but it sure is a step up from most side character development in the series. Plus, if different decisions are made this quest isn't even made available, which I appreciated.
I am pretty sure the BOS would either try to make an alliance with the Institute in some way "You must not squander you technology like this, rather let us join forces and save humanity from itself" (in this case saving humanity from itself means: make sure no one else gets this advanced tech and wait until everyone else dies off) or try to take it over.
Especially Elijah would have wanted the resources of the Institute. He would probably see the Synths as excellent replacements for some of his fellow BOS members as well as using them to take away technology from incompetent wastelanders.
Especially Elijah would have wanted the resources of the Institute. He would probably see the Synths as excellent replacements for some of his fellow BOS members as well as using them to take away technology from incompetent wastelanders.
Radiosity
Writiosity
The real beauty is that Elijah could take the Institute without losing a single soldier, simply by using holograms
Well, he could in one of my playthroughs of NV where I actually decided it might be fun to side with him and blanket the Mojave in the Cloud, mwuahahaa.Ah, okay, it's good to know that you haven't played the game due to your severe lack of understanding for this faction in question.
From the very first moment you meet Danse, you are introduced to the overarching idea of the Brotherhood: Technology needs to be controlled, lest it destroys man, as it did. To quote Maxson and Danse respectively:
"Look at the scorched earth and the bones that litter the wasteland. Millions... perhaps even billions, died because science outpaced man's restraint. They called it a "new frontier" and "pushing the envelope," completely disregarding the repercussions"
"Before the Great War, science and technology became more of a burden than a benefit. The atom bomb, bio-engineered plagues and FEV are clear examples of the horrors that technological advancement had wrought. We're here to make sure that never happens again."
More here. But basically, you fail to understand that the Brotherhood are not tech hoarders like before, and the notion that they have to be plays of your lack of understanding of them as a faction. Maxson redefined the ideals of the Brotherhood, eliminating hoarding and effective worshiping of technology. Collection and preservation of technology is a tool now, not a means to an end.
You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. To once again bring up that Talus quote I posted earlier: "Wear our Power Armor as a symbol of hope as you walk the wasteland, for someday when the world is ready we will surface and restore our battered Earth." And here is one from our beloved Veronica: "Once upon a time [our purpose] was about technology. Controlling it so it couldn't destroy us again."
Destroying the Institute is a decisive act that seems confusing at first (after all, can't all that tech be used to their benefit?) so I can understand your confusion, except Maxson knows that this technology is powerful - and that kind of power corrupts beyond all measure. How long until he'd compromise the Brotherhood's ideals and start fielding synths, to preserve the Brotherhood's manpower? How long until they start copying members' minds into synths, like with Nick, to ensure they survive? And bit by bit, they become the very entity they despise. Maxson knows that, because the Brotherhood has gone down this path before, degenerating from an isolationist, but fundamentally well-intentioned group, to another raider tribe, except with fancier guns.
Whatever's lost is mere chump change compared to what was gained and preserved: The soul of the Brotherhood and humanity.
The Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 are PERFECT.
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
Well all you need is the script extender, some tweaks, and another mod to do what New Vegas did by default.
#workingasintended
Radiosity
Writiosity
lol... I can't wait to see the responses to this.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
And Veronica will go on to tell you that the Brotherhood preserves tech for themselves. Even the Outcast in Fallout 3 talk about persevering tech which was one of the reason why they fought against Lyons. I take it you never played the originals and just look at the cliff notes on the Fallout wiki. Look if you love Fallout 4 then more power too you. I will not take that joy away from you but to say that a faction that goes against its founding and principals is perfect is laughable.
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
No, they are on the right course since the blood of Maxsons took the leadership and Maxson's always right. /s
You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. Here's a primer.
It's not against it's foundings, it's the evolution of a faction and the development of it into something greater. Characters like Vree and Talus constantly tell you this, preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them. Should the people of the United Kingdom bow down to a monarch, farm the fields of their land for hours on end and be forced to go to the stocks when they commit crimes just because that's the foundation their society was once based on? Of course not, and the notion that we should because it's our heritage and foundings is ridiculous. What is a laughable idea is believing something should stay uncompromisingly loyal to its foundings and not develop or change (what interesting fiction that would make for, hey?).
The Brotherhood in the West is far more detached from the foundings of the Brotherhood than the one now in the East. The faction that once traded and protected land now cower in bunkers as tech raiders that have no relation to anyone in the outside world. Thus, if you hate Arthur and his beautifully reformed Brotherhood, you must feel the same about the tech raiders in the east, ey
The Brotherhood in the East does everything the Brotherhood set out to do, and like I have said previously, they are perfect.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
The BOS in Fallout 4 is only a good faction because the other factions are shit and dumb beyond belief. Specialy the Institute.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Wow, that has got to be the biggest hand waving bullshit excuse I have read that defended Bethesda take on the BoS. Please, tells us more on why you think Bethesda take on other factions are perfect. I insist.You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. Here's a primer.
It's not against it's foundings, it's the evolution of a faction and the development of it into something greater. Characters like Vree and Talus constantly tell you this, preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them. Should the people of the United Kingdom bow down to a monarch, farm the fields of their land for hours on end and be forced to go to the stocks when they commit crimes just because that's the foundation their society was once based on? Of course not, and the notion that we should because it's our heritage and foundings is ridiculous. What is a laughable idea is believing something should stay uncompromisingly loyal to its foundings and not develop or change (what interesting fiction that would make for, hey?).
The Brotherhood in the West is far more detached from the foundings of the Brotherhood than the one now in the East. The faction that once traded and protected land now cower in bunkers as tech raiders that have no relation to anyone in the outside world. Thus, if you hate Arthur and his beautifully reformed Brotherhood, you must feel the same about the tech raiders in the east, ey
The Brotherhood in the East does everything the Brotherhood set out to do, and like I have said previously, they are perfect.
IndignantHedgehog
It Wandered In From the Wastes
You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. Here's a primer.
It's not against it's foundings, it's the evolution of a faction and the development of it into something greater. Characters like Vree and Talus constantly tell you this, preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them. Should the people of the United Kingdom bow down to a monarch, farm the fields of their land for hours on end and be forced to go to the stocks when they commit crimes just because that's the foundation their society was once based on? Of course not, and the notion that we should because it's our heritage and foundings is ridiculous. What is a laughable idea is believing something should stay uncompromisingly loyal to its foundings and not develop or change (what interesting fiction that would make for, hey?).
The Brotherhood in the West is far more detached from the foundings of the Brotherhood than the one now in the East. The faction that once traded and protected land now cower in bunkers as tech raiders that have no relation to anyone in the outside world. Thus, if you hate Arthur and his beautifully reformed Brotherhood, you must feel the same about the tech raiders in the east, ey
The Brotherhood in the East does everything the Brotherhood set out to do, and like I have said previously, they are perfect.
"The professed mission of the Brotherhood is the preservation of technology and knowledge for future generations, by recovering, restoring, and recording knowledge and its practical applications - technology."
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
The whole Institute romp doesn't make any sense since you will become the leader anyway and you might be able to both free synths and pass the Institute to BoS if only these story lines were written. Why the fuck both Railroad and BoS use our player character as spy so irresponsible?
But we digress a lot, it's Far Harbor discussion thread.
How are you feeling about 'destroy giant enemy crab' I guess radiant quest? For me it's actually refreshing. It starts not as 'please destroy giant enemy crab half-island away he devoured our hop' but 'hey, we are on the hunt for giant enemy crab, we could use your help.'
At least settlers don't sit on their asses this time.
But we digress a lot, it's Far Harbor discussion thread.
How are you feeling about 'destroy giant enemy crab' I guess radiant quest? For me it's actually refreshing. It starts not as 'please destroy giant enemy crab half-island away he devoured our hop' but 'hey, we are on the hunt for giant enemy crab, we could use your help.'
At least settlers don't sit on their asses this time.
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It's not a defense because they don't need defending. The writing makes the characters have beliefs that are not only consistent with almost all depictions of the Brotherhood, but also builds upon it and adapts it into a faction that is a perfect summation of what the faction should be. I enjoyed our argument though, with your uninformed point about them destroying the Institute (which I completely destroyed) and everything else you said boiling down to"lol, bethesda." It was intellectually stimulating
And for the most part I do very much enjoy Fallout 4. It has problems by the metric-fuck-ton but still gives interesting characters, locations and factions (yes, I find the Institute and Railroad to be well-written and fascinating, but of course it's because I suck Bethesda's dick <3
)
You don't understand the Brotherhood, at all. Here's a primer.
It's not against it's foundings, it's the evolution of a faction and the development of it into something greater. Characters like Vree and Talus constantly tell you this, preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them. Should the people of the United Kingdom bow down to a monarch, farm the fields of their land for hours on end and be forced to go to the stocks when they commit crimes just because that's the foundation their society was once based on? Of course not, and the notion that we should because it's our heritage and foundings is ridiculous. What is a laughable idea is believing something should stay uncompromisingly loyal to its foundings and not develop or change (what interesting fiction that would make for, hey?).
The Brotherhood in the West is far more detached from the foundings of the Brotherhood than the one now in the East. The faction that once traded and protected land now cower in bunkers as tech raiders that have no relation to anyone in the outside world. Thus, if you hate Arthur and his beautifully reformed Brotherhood, you must feel the same about the tech raiders in the east, ey
The Brotherhood in the East does everything the Brotherhood set out to do, and like I have said previously, they are perfect.
What the hell?!
Sorry, I don't mean this hostile towards you but have you honestly ever played Fallout 1?
The BOS has never been about protecting land other than their own territory. And while they did trade technology it was usually only the stuff that in their eyes could cause no harm in return for food, water, and other supplies.
And they pretty much always stuck to their bunkers, they did not even go to West Tek despite knowing about the advanced technology that could be found there.
The only faction of the BOS that ever offered protection (other than the FO3 without charge) is the semi canon Mid West BOS, and they basically ran a protection racket, supplies and recruits in return from protection against animals, raiders, mutants, and robots.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Oh, aren't you a fun little troll. Judging from how many people liked my post over yours, I say no you didn't win. Also good for you admitting you are a Bethtard. Finally something to liven things up around here. Also you never played Fallout 1 did you? Because many other people have begun to call you out on your bullshit.It's not a defense because they don't need defending. The writing makes the characters have beliefs that are not only consistent with almost all depictions of the Brotherhood, but also builds upon it and adapts it into a faction that is a perfect summation of what the faction should be. I enjoyed our argument though, with your uninformed point about them destroying the Institute (which I completely destroyed) and everything else you said boiling down to"lol, bethesda." It was intellectually stimulating
And for the most part I do very much enjoy Fallout 4. It has problems by the metric-fuck-ton but still gives interesting characters, locations and factions (yes, I find the Institute and Railroad to be well-written and fascinating, but of course it's because I suck Bethesda's dick <3
Yep, I did state this was their primary motivation and goal in the post you quoted, if you bothered to read it you'd know that.
"preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can be one day used to help them."
^ an actual quote from me, it was nice of you to reiterate it though, as it's essentially the exact same quote. Preserving technology for the betterment of mankind so it can one day be used to help them (the future generations). It's pretty much exactly what I said, so nice reading you did there mate.
And there is a key phrase in that statement "future generations." By 2287, over 200 years since the factions founding, now is the future, and it's time to grace the generations of it with a taste of said technology (not all, some) with a secure monarchistic state under the control of the Brotherhood.
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
Why destroy the Institute the player character will get the leadership over with anyway and can pass to BoS anyway?
Right now it is a Cult of Personality that revolves around Maxson that follows some of the tenets of the Brotherhood.
The East Coast Elders would strongly disagree with someone like the current Maxson to risk important assets like Power Armor, not to mention something like the Prydwen out on missions such as the one that brought the BOS to the Commonwealth as they know these can not be replaced.
In their eyes Arthur Maxson would be as much 'chasing a white whale', hunting down the Institute for no reason other that they might be a threat as Elder Lyons did before him in the DC Wasteland, trying to protect settlements against raiders, Super Mutants and the Enclave.
(In fact despite having 'rebuild' the BOS according to Bethesda, turning it again into a large army, Maxson's BOS is not even capable of pacifying and controlling the DC Wasteland, and yet decided to take his army's main weapon to a region where the BOS has no influence or allies at all.)
Instead they would probably order Arthur Maxson to get the hell back to the West Coast and bring those resources and personnel with him as the West Coast BOS needs it against the NCR, instead of letting him play soldier on the East Coast, searching for possible enemies.
I did, Fallout is my fifth favorite game of all time (I much prefer it over 4) and yes, the amount of people who like a status online dictates a better argument, obviously. More people like Fallout 4 more than Fallout, are they right in your eyes because they are the majority? Hmm, it would seem so. And yes, another great argument saying I'm a troll because my grasp of the Brotherhood is more knowledgeable than yours, as I assess that I'm the only one out of us two that has spent considerable time with all Brotherhood iterations.
And yes, Dutch Ghost I did, the Brotherhood was said to have protected its own lands and had trade relations with the neighboring towns, especially the Hub. Which is what I said "they protected land", you quickly assumed I meant they protect all towns and villages in the upper hemisphere, nice gap in logic.