From E3 untill now, Can you honestly tell me what we know of Fallout 4 objectively?

Wait,why 2 copies? If you buy it physical you get it digital.... Unless you are on console.... but the point still stands paying twice for the same game?
 
@AskortiNords alone exterminated Falmer then almost beat united Dwemer/Dunmer force so if they're allowed to raise an army they can repel any invasion. Hammerfell segregated from the Empire and they're better for it(as they won back their land which Empire delivered to Thalmor)

Crni Vuk said:
But I often feel that mods have made a part of the playerbase and Bethesda somewhat ... lazy? For the lack of better words. YOu know, why even work at the UI, they don't have to provde PC players with good controlls!? Why critizise Bethesda? Mods will gona fix it! And now the console might even get a chance on that with F4 as well ...

That's probably because half of it IS missing, if you can believe the modders. See civil war restorted, however that thing no matter how much effort he or she was puting in it could not rescue this cluster fuck of a quest line. It's like trying to fix a broken bottle, no matter how much glue and tape you use, it will still always leak somewhere.

I call the civil war of Skyrim a nice idea that was very badly executed. Not only does it NOT feel like a civil war - seriously? 8 people attacking a town of 20 citizens? And you call that a war? Give me a brake Bethestda. I guess an attack of 5 demons also counts as invasion. The civil war also makes not much sense for ANY race except the nords. Playing a dark elf? Screw you! They hate them all. Playing an Argonian/Khajit? Screw you! They are not even allowed really in the city. This really leaves as the only realistic option to play with the Empire. But it could have even worked perfectly, if they really allowed for some creativity here with the story telling, they could have give the player the option to work for example as spy if you played one of the other races, particularly a Khajit, or at least dialog for a mercenary type of character, anything that feels at least believable.
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Well Bethesda plays safe and rather than making a living game world in turmoil (wheter it's an invasion from Oblivion or a Civil War)they get as generic as possible.

I believe this because their engine can't handle that many NPC's at once. For example that Civil War mod causes a lot of crushes in mid/low pc's and even some in high end ones. So i think due to some quest/locations game gets way to unstable so they cut off these during the development.

For that i wonder if we ever see a populous city or a big battle in their games?
 
Walpknut said:
Wait,why 2 copies? If you buy it physical you get it digital.... Unless you are on console.... but the point still stands paying twice for the same game?
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Where I live the internet flows like molasses in January. I bought the physical copy first, then got to thinking that it might take forever to download the game and start playing what with the way Xbox now does games, only part of it on the disc, the rest is downloaded. So I bought the digital copy hoping against hope that the game will be downloaded ahead of release time so I can start at 12:01. am. I don't trust digital downloads only and prefer to have a physical copy, so I will keep my physical copy as a "backup".
 
LostPony said:
I know enough for me, and thats enough to warrant buying the game. Two copies in fact, one digital and one physical. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea that I could tell someone else to buy it without seeing it, unless like me they have enjoyed Skyrim and Fallout 3. If they tell me they are big fans of Fallout and Fallout 2, but not so much Fallout 3, then I might suggest they wait until the game comes out and read the reviews. I might even let them come over and try the game first so they know exactly what they are getting.
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You buy the season pass as well?
 
Theinnerfish said:
I believe this because their engine can't handle that many NPC's at once. For example that Civil War mod causes a lot of crushes in mid/low pc's and even some in high end ones. So i think due to some quest/locations game gets way to unstable so they cut off these during the development.
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That's an excuse that I read very often, but it doesn't make it sound better because it has been repeated a thousand times by now. The thing is, they are game designers they know and work with their engine and Skyrim is not their first game. It is at least Todd Howards third game with the engine in question. By now they should know what their games can and can't do well.

You would be surprised how much you can achieve by creating an illusion.

For example, you don't have to actually take part in massive battles to give the IDEA that there is a massive civil war going on with armies clashing together. Dragon Age 1 is a relatively good examle for that. You could also create quests and the pacing of the story to reflect that. But of course, if you have always to throw the player in the midle of it, leading the invasion force or the defenders or what ever you will naturally run into issues. Bethesda simply is not good at telling a story, and it shows. Take New Vegas as example. While it also shows the limitations and having very similar issues here (I really don't like the attack on Hoover dam), it makes in general a better job compared to what Oblivion, Skyrim or Fallout 3 did. I wonder what they might have done with more time and more controll over the engine. With Skyrim I never had the feeling that there was actually huge civil war going on, or that there was actually even a crysis from it. Or that it actually even really bothered people that much. No war camps, no defences, no recruitment going on, in general all the stuff that you usually see outside the battlefield. In any war the actuall fighting of the war is only a relatively small part of it, what is really important to the story telling however, and infact also more interesting, is the stuff around it. Like the Soldiers, the camps, the preperations etc. The Witcher 2 did an EXCELENT work here and they did a million times a better job of creating a believable situation. Military camps are actually towns for them self! Particularly when you go with a more fantasy/medieval setting. In TW2 you had with one of the enemy camps, whores, gambling, smiths, trading and a lot more. And you also had the chance to explore both sides of the conflict depending on the choices you made.

When you create a story and you have to deal with so many limitations, like Beth claims, than you have to work with it. Either create your story around things on a much smaller scale where you do a lot more with the NPCs, like talking about the war, showing injured veterans, etc. Or tweak the engine to allow you massive size for this epic situations that you want to show.

Both can't work, epicness just doesn't work with 5 people attacking a town of 10 buildings.

For that i wonder if we ever see a populous city or a big battle in their games?
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As long Bethesda is focusing on 11 year old gamers as their main target audience we will never see any kind of depth added to their games, or not even a try for it and everyhing will remain binary.

They could have done this already years ago, if they just pushed them self far enough, like what CD Projekt Red did with the Witcher series. Now what ever if that was a good move or not, is a whole different question, however there is no doubt that each of the Witcher games had it's own qualities. There are people that love TW1 but hate TW2 and there those that love TW2 and hate TW1, mostly for different reasons though. There is no question about the quality the games contain.

Beth could create believable locations, landscapes, NPCs and quests. This is not an engine limitation! - See new Vegas as best example. But they chose not to. And that years ago when they made the change from Morrowind to Oblivion deciding that money can be best made by using the lowest common denominator as target audience. Morrowind doesn't contain even one single invasion or big epic army marching trough everything. The whole plot of Morrowind is pushed forward by the player and the NPCs you're interacting with, be it from Vivec, the 6th House and the other factions. The Epicness in Morrowind comes from the tales you hear and read about in the game. What Vivec, Sotha Sil, Almalexia and the others did centuries ago. Why the Hearth of Lorhkan is so dangerous, uncovering mysteries etc.

This is where Lore comes in to fill the place of the limitations. Like I said, the illusion of epicness can be a very powerfull tool. But, that is over the head of those that also complain that they have to reload all the time because they again killed their quest giver ...
 
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TransgenderVaultDeweller said:
You buy the season pass as well?
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No, I will wait until I play the base game before deciding if I need to get the pass, but I likely will order it as chances are I will want whatever they decide to issue for the game. If I don't feel it was worth it, I will express my displeasure and move on.
 
Crni Vuk I'm going to accept New Vegas did much better job at giving the feel of the war that is breeding. Though i said firsthand bethesda plays safe and makes a generic world in their games.

They make an impressive landscape even pedagogically consistent; build a good lore/history that's very rich; give the player a ton of sandbox freedom with even ton of different quests yet there is not even one character in that game has any decent dialog. This' a Bethesda game in a nut shell.

However i don't agree that Bethesda making their games for 11 year olds. Sure as hell their marketing department aimed for 11 year old gamers with Skyrim but it's daedric quests, characters, history and books are not for 11 year old gamers nor was Fallout 3 with it's slavery, cannibalism and town of immorta... okay okay maybe Fallout 3 was for 11 year olds.

For the record Fallout 3 was full of idiotic, imbecile dialogs, quests, characters and locations and these made me feel sick to my stomach. I can't defend that, actualy f**k'em for not hiring someone with some writing skill. Even in Skyrim i never felt any RP element with dialog options i'm given. So to be honest i consider Fallout 4 as a Farcry game in the setting i love(with passion).

I'm not here to educate NMM and show you how wrong you're and how Fallout is better off. I know it's not better off BUT i also know i enjoy Bethesda games(since Daggerfall) greatly so i'm defending them for being good games. However they never had good dialogs or decent mechanics and i always loved first person rpgs so i'm somehow okay with Betheda making Fallout games.
 
There is absolutely NOTHING(!) wrong with enjoying any Bethesda game. Please! Don't feel like this is what I want to say.

However, what would be wrong, is to come here and tell me (or us if you want) why we are wrong for NOT enjoying Bethesdas Fallout game as Fallout game.

No one has the right to tell you or anyone what he should or should not enjoy. As long it's not something illegal of course.
 
It really depends on your expectations. We expect a well written, interesting and full of C&C games. Others prefer loot caves, walking shooting. Fallout originally was what we expect/want. Now it's the latter.
 
I am going to bet that whenever you pick the B option (the negative one) a text pops up on the screen with (+5 Negative Karma!).
 
Not actually is pretty easy to keep track of, it's entirely Binary but it makes people believe they are immersing in some deep system. Just look at Mass Effect and it's "Paragon/Renegade" System. They are pretty blatantly aping Mass Effect so it wouldn't surprise if they "Evolved" the karma System into that instead of expanding on the Reputation system.
 
The Amazing Fallout 4 Settlement building:

Merchant: Huh.... so 420Blazeitopolis.... uhmmmm what do you exactly have to trade? You are a Tree house with a garden..... Do you produce anything?

Random NPC: I dunno, the Mayor is never here....

Merchant: Then who organizes the town and manages resources

Random NPC: No one, but we got a couple turrets that kill those mentally challenged Raiders from down the Valley. Why are you even here anyway?

Merchant: I don't know, I just felt like some dude had midly above average Charisma and I was suddenly compelled to come here.

Random NPC: Wanna see our Dank Vault Boy neon sign? We have very little resources but putting the extra electricity and fuel into that abomination decorated with Flamethrowers is really worth it.....
 
I think the surprise factor in games is usually pretty good in most cases. I could probably give some examples where this has payed off. In a game that's as controversial as Fallout 4 though fuck no.

frajaq said:
Don't know who marty is but whatever.

The main quest will probably be about trying to find our family (since hey, the SS survived 200 years, why not the wife too) and getting involved with faction shenanigans

the goal of Fallout 4 is whatever the player wants to be, so likely fucking around/exploring Boston and the cool places Bethesda set up for us in a kickass power armor suit like most will do.
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So we have the exact same problem as Fallout 3. Arbitrary background for the player character that's forced instead of letting you free to imagine/choose whatever past and future you want for you. What if my character has no motivation to find my family? I mean, isn't that really the goal of the game? You say that the goal "is whatever the player wants it to be" but a goal is the point where the game ends no? You are forced to complete the goal if you want to complete the game but how fast you do it is up to you. Fucking around in Boston is just a thing you can do on the side. Also I'd prefer not to have OP armor til the end thank you.
 
Walpknut said:
The Amazing Fallout 4 Settlement building:

Merchant: Huh.... so 420Blazeitopolis.... uhmmmm what do you exactly have to trade? You are a Tree house with a garden..... Do you produce anything?

Random NPC: I dunno, the Mayor is never here....

Merchant: Then who organizes the town and manages resources

Random NPC: No one, but we got a couple turrets that kill those mentally challenged Raiders from down the Valley. Why are you even here anyway?

Merchant: I don't know, I just felt like some dude had midly above average Charisma and I was suddenly compelled to come here.

Random NPC: Wanna see our Dank Vault Boy neon sign? We have very little resources but putting the extra electricity and fuel into that abomination decorated with Flamethrowers is really worth it.....
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Yeah, Real groundbreaking 10/10 shit IGN. kappa.

This is what people are excited to see? Indeed this will be a dark day indeed for gaming if this game actually gets critical appraise.
 
If there's no option to set my settlement defenses to kill everyone besides me who gets too close, I will be greatly disappointed. If there's a function like some of have theorizing that settlements are a way to get power armor cores, then I'll just employ* a merchant so I can have a refreshable inventory to get them. If at all possible, they will be set up just like Vendertron in New Vegas. They'll have a little shack built around them so they can never leave.




*"Employ" may be synonymous with "enslave" in the event of another human being required to fill this role.
 
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