Game Informer Fallout 3 article scans
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
Hello Brother None,
Most of the hype will probably also come from the game sites and magazines in the coming months.
It would have been nice if 'the other side' of the fandom would also be allowed to make its statement or say, and not just the seeming quickly impressed game journalists.
Most of the hype will probably also come from the game sites and magazines in the coming months.
It would have been nice if 'the other side' of the fandom would also be allowed to make its statement or say, and not just the seeming quickly impressed game journalists.
alec said:
True.
The Dutch Ghost said:
Well, remember, gaming journalists are losing ground to other media, like fansites, blogs and word-of-mouth. Traditional media are losing ground all around, but gaming journalism's level of quality is making it lose ground quicker.
As for covering "the other side," we're hoping to have at least one thing on that in a while, but we'll have to wait.
I've been pushing the Omega Syndrom on the BGSF, Davaris. And it worked, heh;
I got the Omega Syndrome game, it's pretty good
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
I'm putting my hope of a 'Post-apocalypse, turn-based combat, sci-fi CRPG' game on some indie developer. Most of the mainstream game developer don't give a shit bout their fans. All they have in mind is the sound of 'Kaching! ->$ sign'Maphusio said:
Oh god I had enough. After reading that codex thing and re-reading those magazine scans....I know Fallout is dead for sure. It was always dead, I just denied it as many others.
Oblivion and all the things Todd and Pete said... Things like "I watched all the PA movies, Mad Max, A Boy and his dog, Dr.Strangelove. They all felt too generic "(
)
A guy who thinks Mad Max and A boy and his dog are "generic" needs to go to a retarded institution. Specially if he's the guy in charge of developing Oblivion and calls himself a "Big fallout fan". Not the man I would want in charge of reviving my favorite game.
"We are going to do what we do best"
Indeed. Now try living with the fact that fallout 4 and 5 will also be developed by bethesda. Hell, I forgot, they bought the ip ! they can make as many abortions as they want!
Maybe my grandchildren will have the chance to play a modern version of fallout
Oblivion and all the things Todd and Pete said... Things like "I watched all the PA movies, Mad Max, A Boy and his dog, Dr.Strangelove. They all felt too generic "(
)A guy who thinks Mad Max and A boy and his dog are "generic" needs to go to a retarded institution. Specially if he's the guy in charge of developing Oblivion and calls himself a "Big fallout fan". Not the man I would want in charge of reviving my favorite game.
"We are going to do what we do best"
Indeed. Now try living with the fact that fallout 4 and 5 will also be developed by bethesda. Hell, I forgot, they bought the ip ! they can make as many abortions as they want!
Maybe my grandchildren will have the chance to play a modern version of fallout
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
The Duke said:Oblivion and all the things Todd and Pete said... Things like "I watched all the PA movies, Mad Max, A Boy and his dog, Dr.Strangelove. They all felt too generic "(
Read books, not watch the movie. Books allow your brain to function properly by imagine the scene.
Regarding the Hype:
The real people who need to be brought into touch aren't Bethesda nor even fanboys. It's is the bloody gaming press imo.
Take that GI article, it was pure hype - there was no deconstruction of what was said, nor was there any critical analysis. I dread to think what their actual review will be like... 10/10 lawl?
I stopped buying/subscribing to magazines years ago, back when this trend to hype everything became overt. I used to mainly read PZone(UK) ~10 years ago it was great, they used to be quite neutral until they got to try a game, then regardless of the publisher/brand would pummel it and shove an image of a turd next to it if it ended up sucking. Would the great Daikatana slamming happen today? I doubt it. The GI article has already seemingly green stamped it as a great game, whatever happened to ending previews with: 'Time will tell if they can live up their promises' and similar comments?
I stopped reading PCZ (& others) when they started giving shit games like Unreal2 scores of 98%. What is even more laughable is how usually they semi retract their hype a few months to a year later, to appear critical and informative. You can see this now with Oblivion, many sites/magazines which had hailed it as the 'best game ever' on release, now laugh about the AI and make a big point of noting it's flaws wherever possible, yeah great job.
Most people base their buying decisions on reviews/previews to some extent, fix the press and you'd go a long way to re-educating the masses. Sure what would happen is Bethsoft et al would stop giving exclusives to those who are critical, but if the magazine was worth its salt - it would fight back and call those who drink from the chalice sellouts, and make a big point of it, conflict sells too
The real people who need to be brought into touch aren't Bethesda nor even fanboys. It's is the bloody gaming press imo.
Take that GI article, it was pure hype - there was no deconstruction of what was said, nor was there any critical analysis. I dread to think what their actual review will be like... 10/10 lawl?
I stopped buying/subscribing to magazines years ago, back when this trend to hype everything became overt. I used to mainly read PZone(UK) ~10 years ago it was great, they used to be quite neutral until they got to try a game, then regardless of the publisher/brand would pummel it and shove an image of a turd next to it if it ended up sucking. Would the great Daikatana slamming happen today? I doubt it. The GI article has already seemingly green stamped it as a great game, whatever happened to ending previews with: 'Time will tell if they can live up their promises' and similar comments?
I stopped reading PCZ (& others) when they started giving shit games like Unreal2 scores of 98%. What is even more laughable is how usually they semi retract their hype a few months to a year later, to appear critical and informative. You can see this now with Oblivion, many sites/magazines which had hailed it as the 'best game ever' on release, now laugh about the AI and make a big point of noting it's flaws wherever possible, yeah great job.
Most people base their buying decisions on reviews/previews to some extent, fix the press and you'd go a long way to re-educating the masses. Sure what would happen is Bethsoft et al would stop giving exclusives to those who are critical, but if the magazine was worth its salt - it would fight back and call those who drink from the chalice sellouts, and make a big point of it, conflict sells too
Yip, the media is now suddenly retro-rating Oblivion as lower than Morrowind, while Morrowind had an average rating of 8.7 vs Oblivion's 9.4. Pathetic, but hilarious.
Fixing the press is too unlikely, but they will have to do something if they want to stop losing ground.
Fixing the press is too unlikely, but they will have to do something if they want to stop losing ground.
Hello Nim82,
Well the problem would be that magazines (perhaps also sites) would soon be receiving less and less information or review copies if they became more critical.
I used to read a magazine which production was cancelled because the journalists were so critical that publishers stopped sending them review copies of their latests games, or so late thatthe game was already reviewed by other magazines weeks earlier.
In the last magazine they mentioned they had to choose between 'advertising' games more or cease production, they choose for the last.
Well the problem would be that magazines (perhaps also sites) would soon be receiving less and less information or review copies if they became more critical.
I used to read a magazine which production was cancelled because the journalists were so critical that publishers stopped sending them review copies of their latests games, or so late thatthe game was already reviewed by other magazines weeks earlier.
In the last magazine they mentioned they had to choose between 'advertising' games more or cease production, they choose for the last.
zioburosky13 said:The Duke said:Oblivion and all the things Todd and Pete said... Things like "I watched all the PA movies, Mad Max, A Boy and his dog, Dr.Strangelove. They all felt too generic "(
Read books, not watch the movie. Books allow your brain to function properly by imagine the scene.
I agree. Unfortunately, I believe Todd Howard can't read
.Bet he watched dvd version of Mad Max with comentary by someone from MTV.As for the failure of gaming journalism, I guess all the popular magazines/sites go with the trend now for obvious reasons. If GI didn't shine and grease Bethesda's balls with a clean tongue by the time Oblivion was released would they get this exclusive from them now? unlikely.
If they said Oblivion sucked...well, think of all the retards who wouldn't buy that issue
Slicerdicer
First time out of the vault
Wooz said:
I think this will be like the holy hand grenade. Powerful and very rare and probably good for a few or one use. To be saved for the big bosses.
I know Silencer's gonna ban me for this...
But I liked it - kinda.
I never believed they'd be doing another isometric turn based game, so this thing doesn't come as a surprise.
Anyway, aside from the obvious ridicules (like the handheld nuke launcher thingie, and the car nuclear reactor that explodes when a bullet hits it) the combat system seemed OK. A combination of pseudo-turn basedness for better tactical desicions sounds good to me. Also, someone said, it's not fallout if you can't shoot a rat in the groin... Well I suppose we can.
What concearns me is weather Bethseda will introduce the mature themes in the game. All games are gory nowadays, you get a PG rating if someones head is ripped off, but if you show a breast it's K15 or if you were to show some pubic hair, it's AO, and pity the fools who show a penis... They just get sued.
Yeah, I liked having sex in F2, even if it only lasted for 2 seconds of blank screen...
Oh well, about the article itself, there was no analysis. Some technical glitches were mentioned, but not discussed. I also have strong doubts about the parts that were telling a gameplay "story". They're probably just an element to make the article seem longer, to consume space on the page. Even if it has some basis on the alledgedly shown gameplay, I'd guess it's peppered with fiction and editorial stuff to make it more interesting.
Also, dialogs. None were shown, and little was described. How are choices made, thorough dialogue or actions?
It doesn't seem all that bad, they've seemingly tried a lot to introduce a certain kind of feeling to the game, but it all seems a little horror-ish to me, wouldn't you agree?
But I liked it - kinda.
I never believed they'd be doing another isometric turn based game, so this thing doesn't come as a surprise.
Anyway, aside from the obvious ridicules (like the handheld nuke launcher thingie, and the car nuclear reactor that explodes when a bullet hits it) the combat system seemed OK. A combination of pseudo-turn basedness for better tactical desicions sounds good to me. Also, someone said, it's not fallout if you can't shoot a rat in the groin... Well I suppose we can.
What concearns me is weather Bethseda will introduce the mature themes in the game. All games are gory nowadays, you get a PG rating if someones head is ripped off, but if you show a breast it's K15 or if you were to show some pubic hair, it's AO, and pity the fools who show a penis... They just get sued.
Yeah, I liked having sex in F2, even if it only lasted for 2 seconds of blank screen...
Oh well, about the article itself, there was no analysis. Some technical glitches were mentioned, but not discussed. I also have strong doubts about the parts that were telling a gameplay "story". They're probably just an element to make the article seem longer, to consume space on the page. Even if it has some basis on the alledgedly shown gameplay, I'd guess it's peppered with fiction and editorial stuff to make it more interesting.
Also, dialogs. None were shown, and little was described. How are choices made, thorough dialogue or actions?
It doesn't seem all that bad, they've seemingly tried a lot to introduce a certain kind of feeling to the game, but it all seems a little horror-ish to me, wouldn't you agree?
The Dutch Ghost said:
That is entirely true - I would argue that the root of the problem problem exactly began though when the media became reliant on gifted games etc. How can you ever, realistically, bite the hands that feed you?
In an ideal world the reviewer would buy and review their own products - allowing them to remain impartial. This impartiality, and honesty would then become their central selling point and enable them to profit, regardless. It would be hard going financially to begin with, but could work brilliantly in the long run - if done properly. You wouldn't get invited to sit-ins with dev's you'd slagged off, but you could always build previews based on their general press releases etc.
A real change is long due... but I won't be holding my breath :/
Kan-Kerai
Still Mildly Glowing
Can't shoot them in the groin, no option for it. No option for the eyes, either. No dice, brother. CHUNKS OF RANDOM UNIDENTIFIABLE MEAT FLYING EVERYWHERE IS HARDCORE THOUGH!botia said:
By the way:
botia said:
In 2004 said:
Yes, horror-ish. No, I don't know if I think it's "all that bad". Regardless of the things I've said so far, I'm still holding out on making a decision.In 2004 said:
As a side note, nobody is going to ban you for a post like that. Well, Rosh might if he were still around.
But he's not. You aren't one of the incessant Random Idiot Coming Down From The Mountain Top To Dispense Timeless Wisdom parade, so no worries.
Hello Nim82,
Well one of the problems is, is that games industry has become a million dollar business.
I am not sure if it was easier years ago but these days companies like Electronic Arts and Bethesda invest quite a lot of money in the development of games and they expect to make that back and more.
In a way it is a natural process that they would take over the game magazines and websites as they have to insure themselves that their product will be sold even if the quality is questionable.
Another of their actions is, is that they want to make it impossible to rent games so that gamers can't try it out before they buy it.
"Once you have their money, you never return it"
Well one of the problems is, is that games industry has become a million dollar business.
I am not sure if it was easier years ago but these days companies like Electronic Arts and Bethesda invest quite a lot of money in the development of games and they expect to make that back and more.
In a way it is a natural process that they would take over the game magazines and websites as they have to insure themselves that their product will be sold even if the quality is questionable.
Another of their actions is, is that they want to make it impossible to rent games so that gamers can't try it out before they buy it.
"Once you have their money, you never return it"
I've been re-reading the scans and reading this thread, and the more I think about it, the more I am reminded of Doom 3.
Years in waiting, a classic game revamped and modernized, glitzy visuals, pre-release hype... (and the mutant visuals remind me of the Doom 3 creatures)
And, I still occasionally replay the original Dooms, but I never replay Doom 3. It got tiresome. It was just a different game.
I worry about the same effect for FO3.
My main concerns (nothing new to this thread here, just my own two cents):
1) Lack of mention of dialogue in the article. For me, the main reason FO's world lives on in my mind is the abundant text. Just like a good book, the words take root in your imagination and then stuff just grows there. Glitzy visuals never change, they are not alive, and they get stale.
2) Combat system. Not rewarding twitch playing isn't enough for me. I don't want my own slow fingers ever to stop the character I'm role playing from succeeding in what he/she is doing according to his/her own skills.
That's about it, though. Stylistic changes (the vault suit, etc.) I can mostly handle, if the text is there. The less text, the more the visuals matter. The more room my imagination has, the less I care about the visuals.
Misteryo
Years in waiting, a classic game revamped and modernized, glitzy visuals, pre-release hype... (and the mutant visuals remind me of the Doom 3 creatures)
And, I still occasionally replay the original Dooms, but I never replay Doom 3. It got tiresome. It was just a different game.
I worry about the same effect for FO3.
My main concerns (nothing new to this thread here, just my own two cents):
1) Lack of mention of dialogue in the article. For me, the main reason FO's world lives on in my mind is the abundant text. Just like a good book, the words take root in your imagination and then stuff just grows there. Glitzy visuals never change, they are not alive, and they get stale.
2) Combat system. Not rewarding twitch playing isn't enough for me. I don't want my own slow fingers ever to stop the character I'm role playing from succeeding in what he/she is doing according to his/her own skills.
That's about it, though. Stylistic changes (the vault suit, etc.) I can mostly handle, if the text is there. The less text, the more the visuals matter. The more room my imagination has, the less I care about the visuals.
Misteryo
boer_kameel
Still Mildly Glowing
Press:
True. I however believe that the dev’s influence this too: If a dev notices he gets more good rep from one certain magazine, he will invite that magazine’s reporter with next release too. Although not “correct”, it’s quite normal to act like that, from a business pov.
As with the regular press, the reader/buyer is always presented with the options of going for fast, easy readable and positive commercial info, versus clear, honest and sometimes negative and/or shocking info. Not going too much into politics, the trend of “the mass reading more sensational pulp then facts” has led to some rather awkward misinformed decisions on numerous occasions. Saddening but true indeed. Quite difficult to counter too.
Indeed, NMA tends to be rather negative - but, as you stated in the other post, there has to be a medium that counters the "promo talk" and over-enthusiasm of some journalists.
Especially since people turn to media such as NMA to get an opinion from "experts", being the still very active fans of an old franchise, in this case.
General “fallout&gaming”:
Making multi-platform games tends to drop quality in some areas, especially true for RPG games (and strategy, and some other genres). However, for the console gamer, I think F3 could be as unique, innovative and mind-opening as F1 was for the PC (c)RPG player. Opening a market spot for spin-offs, more sequels, ... Hopefully also for the PC world.
Looking at the presented F3 info from a “not expecting isometric, tb c rpg” viewpoint, I guess I like what I see. We all knew that those points weren’t to be expected. Crying over isometric won’t help, it’s too far in development for that.
There is a good chance that Bethesda will fuck it up for the die-hard Fallout fans. If the game sells and the market spot opens, there also is a good chance that some (other) developer will listen to the fan's cries for a "worthy" Fallout follow-up, or even that a mod team with new tools (the F3 tools, hopefully) creates something that gets more popular than the game itself - look at what CounterStrike did for the Half-Life franchise, something not thought possible before. As somewhat stated by zioburosky13.
Expecting a cRPG pen&paper conversion in 3d FP seems somewhat of an utopy in today's gaming world. We kind of knew that it wasn't going to be that. After the bad rep BOS and POS caused, I guess they needed more "retro F1 & 2" elements, but with still some "open" items towards newbies in the genre. I don't think newbies to the Fallout style of RPG would even have heard of pen&paper ("what, people sit in a basement, playing games in their mind while shouting -I attack Droid with Laser-?? What, people even dress up like knights to re-enact medieval settings???").
I guess that the only thing left to do, is to accept what is inevitable in Beth’s making of Fallout (3d fp/3rd p) and try to create some fuss about the things we can still affect, like turn-based - by mass crying, mass suicide, mass jump so that the world shifts in it orbit, or whatever.
Anyway, about the article:
Pro:
Special
Detailed aiming of bodyparts
Mature content, blood, gore, kids, chems (drugs & alcohol?)
Game setting (dark, it is Fallout in a way - not POS with flashy armor)
3d first person
Water, food & rad count
Con:
3d first person (unclear what that will give)
Not having a true turn-based option for the PC users is a mistake imo.
Possibility (…) of Beth messing with the feel
unclear of BoS presence (reason, history)
How would a pipboy pick up 50's music (some after war scavengers found vinyl and somehow got it working with a FM-studio? Has Pip got mp3 support - for 50's music???)
Nuclear catapult
I admit always having dreamt of wandering through the wastelands in 1st person. It may not give a tactical overview, but a part of RPG is about immersing. Isn’t that more easy when you look through the eyes of the very role you’re playing?
I don’t see that as bad –per se-, but yes, it could be badly implemented (Oblivion with guns, yeah).
Seeing the inside of a vault with the third dimension added is sweet though... I've also read that the artists had to make everything "functional", e.g. a pipe isn't just hanging there, but leading to a water tank, with a valve on it. That shows some good thinking, more than "let's add guns to Oblivion".
The nuke is somewhat odd, to say the least. If it’s balanced (VERY rare ammo, only usable at mid to long distance, it rads you for quite some points unless using PA, turns NPC’s hostile if fired close, …), it may be a bit justifiable… Although it seems like a cheap “wow sweet killer weapon” promo, reminding of Doom’s BFG. Hence, balance is VERY important.
Btw, the Vault-boy displayed in Pip-boy: I think the good old "chardex" was also a part of Pipboy 2000, like "vault tec" software (which measured a vault resident’s stats, as said in the article) loaded on the pipboy. This is, imho, why we see a vaultboy on a pipboy display
Good for Beth’ that they figured that out by themselves. If they did so.
Ps: While typing, some of my writings were already discussed by others, I noticed. Sorry for repeating, I’ve deleted most obsolete items or referenced the poster.
Nim82 said:
True. I however believe that the dev’s influence this too: If a dev notices he gets more good rep from one certain magazine, he will invite that magazine’s reporter with next release too. Although not “correct”, it’s quite normal to act like that, from a business pov.
As with the regular press, the reader/buyer is always presented with the options of going for fast, easy readable and positive commercial info, versus clear, honest and sometimes negative and/or shocking info. Not going too much into politics, the trend of “the mass reading more sensational pulp then facts” has led to some rather awkward misinformed decisions on numerous occasions. Saddening but true indeed. Quite difficult to counter too.
Brother None said:
Brother None said:
Indeed, NMA tends to be rather negative - but, as you stated in the other post, there has to be a medium that counters the "promo talk" and over-enthusiasm of some journalists.
Especially since people turn to media such as NMA to get an opinion from "experts", being the still very active fans of an old franchise, in this case.
General “fallout&gaming”:
Making multi-platform games tends to drop quality in some areas, especially true for RPG games (and strategy, and some other genres). However, for the console gamer, I think F3 could be as unique, innovative and mind-opening as F1 was for the PC (c)RPG player. Opening a market spot for spin-offs, more sequels, ... Hopefully also for the PC world.
Looking at the presented F3 info from a “not expecting isometric, tb c rpg” viewpoint, I guess I like what I see. We all knew that those points weren’t to be expected. Crying over isometric won’t help, it’s too far in development for that.
There is a good chance that Bethesda will fuck it up for the die-hard Fallout fans. If the game sells and the market spot opens, there also is a good chance that some (other) developer will listen to the fan's cries for a "worthy" Fallout follow-up, or even that a mod team with new tools (the F3 tools, hopefully) creates something that gets more popular than the game itself - look at what CounterStrike did for the Half-Life franchise, something not thought possible before. As somewhat stated by zioburosky13.
Expecting a cRPG pen&paper conversion in 3d FP seems somewhat of an utopy in today's gaming world. We kind of knew that it wasn't going to be that. After the bad rep BOS and POS caused, I guess they needed more "retro F1 & 2" elements, but with still some "open" items towards newbies in the genre. I don't think newbies to the Fallout style of RPG would even have heard of pen&paper ("what, people sit in a basement, playing games in their mind while shouting -I attack Droid with Laser-?? What, people even dress up like knights to re-enact medieval settings???").
I guess that the only thing left to do, is to accept what is inevitable in Beth’s making of Fallout (3d fp/3rd p) and try to create some fuss about the things we can still affect, like turn-based - by mass crying, mass suicide, mass jump so that the world shifts in it orbit, or whatever.
Anyway, about the article:
Pro:
Special
Detailed aiming of bodyparts
Mature content, blood, gore, kids, chems (drugs & alcohol?)
Game setting (dark, it is Fallout in a way - not POS with flashy armor)
3d first person
Water, food & rad count
Con:
3d first person (unclear what that will give)
Not having a true turn-based option for the PC users is a mistake imo.
Possibility (…) of Beth messing with the feel
unclear of BoS presence (reason, history)
How would a pipboy pick up 50's music (some after war scavengers found vinyl and somehow got it working with a FM-studio? Has Pip got mp3 support - for 50's music???)
Nuclear catapult
I admit always having dreamt of wandering through the wastelands in 1st person. It may not give a tactical overview, but a part of RPG is about immersing. Isn’t that more easy when you look through the eyes of the very role you’re playing?
I don’t see that as bad –per se-, but yes, it could be badly implemented (Oblivion with guns, yeah).
Seeing the inside of a vault with the third dimension added is sweet though... I've also read that the artists had to make everything "functional", e.g. a pipe isn't just hanging there, but leading to a water tank, with a valve on it. That shows some good thinking, more than "let's add guns to Oblivion".
The nuke is somewhat odd, to say the least. If it’s balanced (VERY rare ammo, only usable at mid to long distance, it rads you for quite some points unless using PA, turns NPC’s hostile if fired close, …), it may be a bit justifiable… Although it seems like a cheap “wow sweet killer weapon” promo, reminding of Doom’s BFG. Hence, balance is VERY important.
Btw, the Vault-boy displayed in Pip-boy: I think the good old "chardex" was also a part of Pipboy 2000, like "vault tec" software (which measured a vault resident’s stats, as said in the article) loaded on the pipboy. This is, imho, why we see a vaultboy on a pipboy display
Good for Beth’ that they figured that out by themselves. If they did so.
Ps: While typing, some of my writings were already discussed by others, I noticed. Sorry for repeating, I’ve deleted most obsolete items or referenced the poster.
boer_kameel
Still Mildly Glowing
Misteryo said:
You've just did a good job in capturing what I would like to have hard as answer to "what is a cRPG game about" from a F3 dev.
It's the same with reading Tolkien's books, versus the movies. Good thing they did a superb job with the movies, but it just doesn't quite match.
Still, I think the combination of text & first person allows for a very good possibility of personification of the "role" you're playing. Not everyone is gifted with a rich imagination.