Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
For Alec & Darklegacy: What was the bar in the bottom of F1 and F2? Wasn't that part of the Pipboy?
It uses the same rusty look with red buttons and bolts. This leads me to conclude that the "chardex" and "skilldex" parts are also incorporated in Pipboy.
No they were a part of a heavily stylised interface. Of course, there's a big possibility that Pipboy had weapon fields, and had a special televisor interface that allowed the character to talk with people. And that the start menu was a part of a Pipboy too just as the save game menu. Because they had the same rusty look with red buttons and bolts.
Ok, possible... Still, as the Vault-Tec PC's have a pipboy slot (the room next to the Overseer room at least), so it's possible that the Chardex was a part of Vault-Tec software, right?
Bethesda could have chosen to make the Chardex a button separate from the Pipboy interface, but imo, that's just a detail. It's possible.
Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
About the nuke launcher:
*snip*
Err...
There's one problem here.
The Fallout setting - note that the energy weapons are an important part of the Fallout setting and they make sense within the setting - they are powered by fusion cells that are a byproduct of the Power Armor armor program and were also used to power cars.
There are no nuclear weapons used except bombs, which still are very similiar to those dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Note how you don't see any Flash Gordon/Foundation style Atom Blasters and similiar portable atomic weapons.
They used Plasma and Laser weapons. Instead of atomic grenades/rockets there are Plasma Grenades that generate a very high temperature but no atomic radiation.
Fallout setting isn't
just any 50s setting. Fallout setting is the Fallout setting.
That's your impression of the Fallout setting. We've had 2 very similar Fallout games now, and 2 offspring that incorporated the same stuff.
I don't want all the exact same weapons all over again, something new would be nice. Something innovative too.
True that this is a doubtful weapon, hence, balance is important. Fallout hasn't got one single uber weapon.
The history, come to think of it, is also very important. If Beth succeeds in placing the nuke launcher in a correct Fallout development timeframe, then it's fine for me.
I understand the fear of this being a weapon that's quite sloppy implemented in the universe, but we just don't know how it's done now.
boer_kameel said:
Don't get me wrong, I love F1 & 2, and I will always hope for a real canon follow-up with the original mood and setting. Again, as stated, this needs Fallout's original devs.
Beth doesn't have those devs, so they will make their own version.
In other words Bethesda has bitten more than they can chew. If they aren't able to make a real canon follow-up with the original mood and setting, the logic dictates that they should have made their own setting and say that it was strongly inspired by Fallout.
Basically, making "their own" version, when they
don't want to recreate basic elements of Fallout, both in gameplay and aesthetics isn't anything different.
Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
You can polish yourself for another 10 year to become an even more glittering gem of hatred, but what will that give you?
I don't know like others, but I'm not hateful. Just slightly disgusted with the whole situation and the direction the game industry have taken.
Don't you think this saddens me? I still play 10 year old games. Including x-com, zelda, JA2, ...
And like to replay lots of isometric turnbased games. Final Fantasy proves that there is a market for (somewhat) isometric (somewhat) turn-based games, although it's much more battle-oriented.
Fact is, as mentioned in this thread, that these kind of games are mostly made by Japanese devs. Western devs focus, indeed, on $$$. Yes, it is sad. But what are you going to do? Boycot everything?
Fight against piracy, then we've got a REAL representation of who plays what. Then no one will think "I've bought Fallout/ Baldur"s Gate / JA2 very long ago, but can't find the CD/CD is broken, I'll just down it". They'll have to buy it, and this will show in sales.
I doubt that the crappy games will generate sales after 10 years. Fallout will.
Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
I think, realistically speaking, that it's more useful to concentrate now on what Bethesda can really improve in their F3 incorporation. It may not be what you wanted at all, but you can help polishing it.
Except that I don't have any business in F3 becoming anything except a worthy next part of Fallout (i.e. another great tabletop style RPG with propertly presented Fallout universe.) or a total failure (i.e. Bethesda taking the consequences of not doing the first and not creating its own post-apo franchise.).
Then why do you bother posting here? If you won't take an effort in improving F3 and don't care for a non-Fallout Fallout, and don't open to the even remote possibility that some Beth devs are really trying to do what you want (in fear of being disappointed?), why bother?
Just for the fun of being able to whine? You can do that when you're 60, and quite some years after that.
Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
It may also clear the path for a new market niche of post-apoc games. *snip*
Err...
No. Fallout have cleared path for a new market niche of post-apoc games. There were post apoc games like The Fall and Metalheart, etc. And no-one, I repeat no-one have done a post-apo game that is similar to Fallout. That's because they didn't study the Fallout's design.
*snip*
Fallout 3 may clear a new market niche for post-apoc survival horror.
But a market niche for Fallout-like games exists since Fallout.
If F3 is a succes (F1 & 2 were successes for the then not good going RPG world, but not a major sales succes, and not known to tha major public), then this will draw attention to a wide variety of people.
Sure, the most generic developers would make some crappy spin-offs, like horror post-apo 3d shooters and the likes.
Still, there are bound to be more passionate people in this world, much like the people here, the Fallout moding community, indie devs, ...
If Bethesda makes some nice mod tools, the Counterstrike story could be repeated: A mod becoming more succesful, or at least on par with the original game itself.
Imagine what the Fallout community + mod tools could do with F3... A Van Buren revival project V2, with a broad spectrum of new blood (and new skills, rekindled enthousiasm) attracted by F3.
Thinking positive can realize this. Thinking negatively won't do that much - Beth won't cancel F3, NMA alone boycotting F3 won't do that much - except if it gets press attention (or Beth attention, like in the BIS days).
I quite get annoyed of all this negativity. Negativity about bad things is ok, if it results into action. Just whining wn't do a thing.
Summarize what we really want, get a unanimity on that, and choose a course of action. Get Beth's attention. If that doesn't work, get media attention.
I would hate other media referencing NMA as "they just bitch on Bethesda and are unpleased". If they find a clear list, backed up by a majority here, with realistic goals (not "make it isometric", that won't work now imho - but "have the real turnbased option), they have something that people that don't read to long-assed posts as this one could clearly agree on, and reference clearly in discussions.
We don't all have the time to spend a whole day/night to dig through a thread like this, not even talking about scavenging the web for every bit and piece of further information.
Sorrow said:
boer_kameel said:
Be glad that there is once more interest in the Fallout universe - even bad commercial is commercial, and some people do learn from (others') mistakes. Let Bethesda create and fail, it will have some influence.
Err...
No. Why should I be glad for Bethesda raping the Fallout setting and the principles of the Fallout's design?
The problem with new people is that often they are more interested in Fallout 3 than in the real Fallout.
I don't care for those people interested in "the new Fallout". Those not curious of why it's number 3 in the series, can slowly fade into obscurity afaic.
Sorrow said:
Fallout 2 not only allowed players to become uber-powerful, but also failed to create a sense of danger.
Basically they had an organisation that works on viping out the world but the character has almost infinite amount of time to stop it.
Yeah, you've got a point there! Capping and time-limit can yield quite some more exciting gameplay towards the end... Boosting skills to uber-level, to realize that F2 can be finished without the use of those skills (except speech) on the oil rig, was a bit of a disappointment. Wasn't that very satisfying.
You did have the choice to take on Horrigan solo, it's all about your choices in the end.
(a classic syndrome of fallout die hard fanboy, caused by reading too much "no mutants allowed" forum