General Discussion Thread of DOOM

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I am not a fan of either person in that Soundcloud, but I think Sterling just started out extremely hostile. Makes him look kind of petty too, if he had kept it neutral and let the guy go on with his bullshit he would have come out looking better.... But well the Digital Homicide guy came out looking like a complete dumb shit so maybe it overshadows Sterling's performance.
 
I am not a fan of either person in that Soundcloud, but I think Sterling just started out extremely hostile. Makes him look kind of petty too, if he had kept it neutral and let the guy go on with his bullshit he would have come out looking better.... But well the Digital Homicide guy came out looking like a complete dumb shit so maybe it overshadows Sterling's performance.

I'm not a fan of Sterling myself although I do watch him occasionally, but the Digital Homicide guy was very hostile, condescending, and ignorant in many respects. Sterling just comes off as a prick which is what I think he is going for in his show. You are right though. They both had an axe to grind.
 
I really have no respect for any douche that implies that critique is evil or exploitative and even have an antagonistic view of reviewers, and not just dumb people like this Digital Homicide dude. Even people who are actually good like Woody Allen and even that small bit in Birdman that implies one of the script writters has similar outlook on it, comes off as pretty egocentric, like you either just lick the boot of anyone who puts out anything out or they should fuck off.
 
I'm rather fond of criticism. I have never understood why people want to be oblivious to their faults whether it be personal or otherwise. If you create a game but expect no criticism then how do you expect to make a better game in the future? It takes feedback to know what people want in a lot of cases. I know a lot of people just don't take criticism very well. This guy seems like one of them. I think his name is James Romine, just to clarify so I can quit calling him Digital Homicide guy.


Anyway...

I had to post this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...ence-thomas-clown-in-blackface_n_7719110.html

Is this all the media cares about anymore?
 
You guys must be sharing some strong herb, cause you heard some things I just did not. Incidentally, I listened to it on my own accord, so I was surprised to see it mentioned here. But I went in thinking, "Oh my God, he did WHAT?" and assuming I was in for a hilarious if painful ride of listening to a moron try to verbally fight it out with Jim Fucking Sterling Son... only to feel ashamed and disgusted for how Jim Sterling lowered himself and acted like a real asshat, and for the guy I was expecting to be a moron to turn out very humble and humanizing.

Did the Digital Homicide dude make missteps? Did he form his points poorly? Did he connect the wrong dots? Oooooh, you BETCHA! But he didn't come off as some kind of unintelligent clown or a deviant who was trying to fuck over the little guy. If anything, Jim Sterling came off as completely oblivious to how it was the guy's right to do business as he pleased and that it MAKES SENSE to ask people to NOT buy his product if that means he doesn't have to be inundated with their hate because they were sent there just to hate on it. It ALWAYS hurts me when people come off as totally oblivious to simple business practices, so listening to Jim Sterling get eclipsed by several of the guy's comments because of that was very painful.

It nothing else, I may have BECOME a fan of the Digital Homicide guy because of that "interview", contrary to what you guys seem to think was the only possibility. He sounded reasonable. He sounded like someone you COULD hash things out with, if running the risk of him overreacting at times, to at least mellow out and realize "I done fucked up". His biggest mistake, which as far as I can tell he failed to realized, as far as I was concerned, was his motivation for deleting his "Review the Reviewer" video and the deletion itself. As I've said plenty of times, I don't believe in editing yourself to omit your failures and showcase only your bright shining successes, and my steadfast believe in owning them. So were I in his shoes and I overreacted and posted a stupid youtube video that showcased me overreacting when I should've let it be, I would've probably added a gigantic disclaimer to the video as a caption indicating I realized it was a mistake to post it, but NOT delete it, and if the comments were so toxic I would disable them, but not without apology and explanation. That would be owning the mistake, but NOT removing it. I've done exactly that, multiple times, here when I posted comments that were total flubs, much to the cluelessness of detractors. But I digress, this isn't about me, this is about Digital Homicide guy and Jim Sterling.

On the other hand Jim Sterling really sounded like a bully and an asshole on several occasions. Introducing the guy and saying under his breath "Oh dear" when he said he was a father of 3 was just incredibly rude (and all-too-British of him), and on a number of separate instances he did it again. Smug chuckles every now and then were bad, but not as bad as him roaring with laughter a couple times. When the guy played that Jimquisition opening talking about breeding a thing, it was a poor opener to his greater point, which he was right about. Jim HAS encouraged people to vitriolically attack certain devs, not necessarily maliciously and not necessarily with direct intent, but he never made it absolutely clear that "these are figures I PERSONALLY admonish however I strongly advise NOT to take any action against them- just do not buy their product" and the guy was right that he was spurring his audience on to attacking people, whether intentionally or unwittingly. It was stupid to start that point off with that clip, because framing the point with a hyperbolic joke made the point itself seem like it was a joke, whereas he could've made a salient point on its own, and just let it sit. Perhaps AT MOST remark upon its similarity to "that one thing Jim said once on this one particular Jimquisition opening, ironically".

In the end, I really liked the "interview" overall, though I feel like Jim Sterling may not even realize how bad he sounds in it. I'm more concerned with the direction he's been going over the weeks with particular respect to his increasing lack of awareness relative to Fallout, but this is just another does of "he's not all he's cracked up to be". Still one of my favorite game reviewers and critics, but certainly not his finest moment. DEFINITELY not...
 
I just watched the post-apocalyptic film "The Day". It was cool at first, but then it was like "eh...." waves vertical hand.
 
The digital Homicide guy was an idiot because his arguments were "You make videos with footage so.... uhmmmm ok whatever". Like Jim Sterling is a fucking prick, and not even in an amusing way, I don0t like him at all and that soundcloud just made me firmer in my opinion on him.
The Digital Homicide guy made a few good points, but he mde a lot of dumb assesment that went nowhere, mostly relating to his idea that a reviewer has to check up on him or using that bit from one of his videos where he made a joking remark regarding a sci fi trope to prove he is encouraging people to attack others, I think that part was brought on by the way the Digital Homicide guy reacted to the negative video and his subsequent shitting on the floor in the steam forums. He also fails to realize the difference between a youtube video and a game you are asking people to pay for, he also seems to be all for suing youtube reviewers for using gameplay for their videos and even uses the typical "Have you ever done a vidyagaem? then you can't talk about how good it is!", which becomes doubly hilarious by how poorly made his game is. Altho, from the beginning it was obvious Sterling had no interest in a civil discussion.
In the end I felt kind of bad for the guy for looking so much like a moron (altho I lost all sympathy for his dumb affirmations about criticism being the same as bullying) and I just reaffirmed how much I dislike Jim Sterling.

Altho the guy did make a valid point, Jim Sterling IS a bad person, but not because he makes bad videos on his squirt plays tho.
 
like I said, you're on something! You heard some things I didn't hear.

He was trying to pin Jim Sterling for being UNFAIR in his criticisms, he wasn't complaining about criticisms as a whole. He spent a good 10 minutes trying to probe Jim for whether ANYTHING about Slaughtering Grounds wasn't "shit" to see if Jim would be consistent in his statement that he would say if something was good in a game, but that whole discussion was lost upon both of them.

The major issue with that "interview" was that there was no mediation. Both parties were stuck in their own worlds. If you listened to it like I did, and if you could plot out where each of them was coming from, you could see what they were saying, and you'd notice how they somehow lost each other repeatedly, from topic to topic. The guy tried to make a case (a silly one, granted) that Jim was a "leech" and Jim IMMEDIATELY- despite definitely know what he was trying to say -became facetious and sarcastic and citing only definitions of the organism, not the terms contextual meaning with regards to behaviors. That was completely unnecessary of him. Yeah, it was a BIG stretch to call Jim a leech, but that didn't warrant Jim's reaction to belittle him in that manner. All over the damn "interview", the same thing kept happening. One or both would just keep missing the point and somehow dance around looking at the situation for what it was.

Jim's not a bad person, he's just growing increasingly cocky, and seemingly disregarding many things. When he was pinned for falsely promoting untruths, he danced around it without owning up to his lack of source verification. He tried to make it up to being "due diligence", but at the end of the day, he stated untruths, and he simply refused to own up to that. That and his unnecessary laughter at really inappropriate times were the things that bothered me the most about Jim Sterling's behavior throughout the "interview".

Hearing the Digital Homicide guy stress, repeatedly, how much all he cared about were the facts and not the opinions just struck a powerful chord with me. So maybe I was won over by saying something so near and dear to me. But he made a whole lot of sense all across the board. As I already said, yes, he flubbed plenty, but you could tell he was flustered throughout the entire thing. He spent all this time NOT addressing an individual directly who's been the primary source of much frustration and harassment he's had to deal with this past year, and now he put himself out there, publicly, hashing it out with Jim Sterling one on one. Those will ALWAYS make you uncomfortable if you don't make a career out of these sorts of discussions. So naturally he plain screwed up and he even lost his train of thought a couple times. But I could track where he was going several times, and he wasn't wrong most of the time.

Like I said, the major takeaway I got from that was that unlike what I'd thought would happen, the "interview" was a MAJOR humanizing source of "PR" for the Digital Homicide guy. It was a good thing, and by all accounts he did very well. If I was the person next to him he was asking how he did at the end of it, I would've said, "You did good. Not excellent, cause you made this and this mistake. But overall, you did okay."
 
Well he tried making that case by the end, but by that point he had already gone enough on things like saying that when copyright law would be perfected all developers would take youtubers to the court and sue them, he repeatedly called not only Sterling a leech but also implied other youtubers are Leeches. Went on for a while trying to prove that his shitty Squirtplay videos where shitty (which they are but that has nothing to do with anything) and mentioning his Patreon every other sentence.
I am not defending Sterling, like I said, I think he is a rather cocky douchebag and a humongous hypocrite, but the other guy lost my sympathy when he started going on some of his points. The parts where I mildly sympathized with him was when he was still making some rather silly points altho those felt kind of sad at Sterling's trademark general dismissal attitude, like talking about gun sounds (which is kind of a weird thing to praise a game for unless they have REALLY good gun sounds) and well I wasn't comingfrom a place where I sympathize with Sterling so to me his behavior was nothing new, he dismissed them in a ver yawkwardly phrased statement that just screamed "I have no intention of having a discussion I just want to humilliate you and look like the cool guy here, thank god for me and so forth". I mean Sterling downright evaded addressing the problem with his fans harrassing the guy and his forum, he probably couldn't care about harrassment when it's not a topic on twitter.

So in the end I just came off from it having no changed opinions on Sterling and now thinking that the Digital Homicide guy not only doesn't know how to react to criticism, but he is also hates the sole idea of it because of his experience with Sterling after his own tantrum made him a target. Dude should've just stopped after the first video he made, get on with making games and not engage in that feud with Sterling, so I still think he is an idiot.
 
He didn't say ALL developers would sue, and he didn't say it was when Copyright law is perfected. He said that because of the murkiness of the legal process many people can get away with things, much like his point about "that site" selling images they had no rights to. His point was that if Jim Sterling kept stepping all over enough developers, eventually it would reach a point where someone WOULD have the resources to file a lawsuit and enough people would participate and it would take him down. Granted, this was an assumption on his part, but he still had a point. Jim is largely a consumer advocate, and his material if often "looking out for the little guy", but he recently found a lot of traction with his Squirty Plays and targeting Steam Greenlight and indie devs.

Honestly, I NEVER had a problem with Steam's quality control, because to me "buyer beware" was the iron rule. I'm the only one to blame for having spent a few hundred dollars on a product from a shady source who never delivered. I knew the risks, I took them, I suffered the consequences. It ends with me. Targeting the entire system because people are stupid was never the right approach, and it always bothered me listening to the gripes with Steam over and over again. The Digital Homicide guy made a solid point when he brought up a term (I forget the exact term) referring to sending people to a destination who would have otherwise avoided it only to galvanize them to be negative towards it, thus garnering further negative attention, and that's exactly what Jim did. People should be more cautious buyers, that's all there is to it. Defend them when the big AAA publishers use their clout to avoid all responsibility when they push defective products, but at the end of the day, leave it to the consumers to be more conscientious about their purchases.

The Digital Homicide guy was right about that he paid for the material he used, he simply didn't pay enough homage to the fact that Jim Sterling "had business arrangements" to use plenty of his material, as well. That was another instance of solid points, but at least one party (the former, in this case) getting lost in the discussion.

Also, I have no illusions that you're defending Sterling. I'm well aware that you don't like him, even though I find that a pity. It's because I'm a fan of his that I'm so disappointed in his behavior in this "interview", and why I've been dismayed over his recent comments. But then, as FO4 is gaining more public spotlight, MANY internet personalities I'm fond of are more and more often saying things that really grate on my nerves, like "I love Fallout; Fallout 3 was a great game!" insinuating that "Fallout" IS just FO3, totally oblivious to the 5 other games that preceded it... I've never been a fan of the Digital Homicide guy, and were it not for Jim Sterling I never would have heard of his games, either (because I AM a discerning buyer). But this "interview" was a good thing for him. He did well. Not great, just well. He made mistakes, but he also conveyed a very understandable perspective throughout the "interview". But both of them sounded like assholes at varying levels throughout the thing.
 
No dude, he literally said that they would get sued and flip flopped on his reasons to not sue. He went everywhere with his points and half of them didn't make sense, the other where inter related but he didn't connect them really well, you are giving him too much credit by connecting the points for him in a coherent manner, but the guy obviously didn't have it quite thought out before talking and he was letting his emotions get the better of him most times, this wasn't helped with Sterling's attitude from the beginning (I mean he literally started the "interview" by insulting the guy and just proceeded to take jabs at him every other sentence) Can't blame the guy for not being coherent in such an ambient but I still think this whole mess was started because he was stupid enough to pick a fight Sterling in the first place in the most childish way possible. I mean I am guessing this "one on one" was actually a spur of the moment decision too, he should've leave it very well alone. I mean most people who like Jim Sterling (not al lof them) will just ridicule him further with it, and Sterling just got more content to make money off of.
 
you are giving him too much credit by connecting the points for him in a coherent manner
Not at all. For one thing, it's not too much credit, and for another thing, I'm not connecting the points on his behalf, I'm just noticing the direction he was arguing before he finished his points. In one instance where he lost his train of thought and received Jim's aid to regain his thought process, I'd already figured out what he was saying. That doesn't mean I was making his argument better for him, that just means I understood the point he was making before he finished making it, because it wasn't a hard point to grasp.

Several times he was wrong, but so was Sterling. Him (JS) being shocked to hear him (DH) ask him (JS) to BEG his fans to not buy his (DH) game was such an instance. Jim Sterling didn't understand the logic behind a businessman's practices, and hearing that made me cringe. At the same time, the Digital Homicide guy made similar missteps, totally not understanding where Jim Sterling's practices were based in.

When he tried to make a comment on "if there are no games, will you still have a job?" he DID have a point: it was simply poorly constructed. I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I didn't give him too much credit. He was MAKING the point, he just failed along the way. Furthermore, it didn't help that (yet again) Jim Sterling made light of it and twisted his point into another joke. Like the lawsuit assumption, he was pointing out that if enough game developers find ways to prohibit Jim Sterling from covering their content, it will be less for him to make content on, and he would make less money as a result. Jim's argued about that before, of course; that Activision will still pump out another COD game regardless of whether FNAF is created, or that one developer spending their time and effort on something has no impact on another developer doing the same for something else. But the concept was still sound. Piss off enough people, it'll affect you. He just framed it poorly. Just like when he started a point by using that sound clip about breeding subservient creatures was a very poor choice. His point was still sound, he just did himself ZERO favors by framing the point with a deliberate gag, because that made his point SEEM like a gag, as well.

It's not giving him too much credit, because as I've said, I noticed very well that BOTH he and Jim Sterling simply lost each other, time and time again, and that he did poorly plenty of times during the "interview" likely because this isn't what he does and he was clearly getting flustered. That's understanding shortcomings, not granting him undue praise.

I don't suddenly like him. I don't suddenly wanna condemn Jim Sterling for everything he said about him. My point was that, contrary to what I was expecting, the "interview" DID him many favors, and had my only exposure to him been the word of mouth from Sterling and those only influenced by Sterling, I would've continued being oblivious to the person behind the studio name. It humanized him, yet Jim Sterling came off very villainous on at least several occasions. I'm still a fan of Jim Sterling, I'm just not happy with his recent behavior, and I won't be forgetting that anytime soon, and I hope he recognizes these problems.

Also fuck this laptop keyboard. I HAVE to say that.
 
Don't accuse me of smoking herb for not liking jackoffs jacking off. I resent that statement Snap. :razz:

Sterling is a dick in that podcast no doubt, but James Romine made himself look like a fool. Surely you saw the quality of arguments that were being made? Romine was acting as if he had Sterling in a bind. He kept trying to turn things around on him but it was sad. Sterling attacked him right out of the gate but did anyone doubt that? Who expected anything more?

The point is both of them looked/sounded absurd. It was the very definition of cringe-worthy, even though I think that term is overused far too often. The only saving grace was listening to how stupid they both sounded.

You do this. No you do that. But your fans do this. Over and over again. It didn't sound like two reasonably intelligent adults having a lively debate. It sounded like one reasonably intelligent adult having a debate with a know-it-all teenager. The teenager is still capable of saying and doing great things, but he thinks he knows it all and says stupid shit quite often. When backed into a corner he says "I'm just a kid."

I feel for Romine, but his games are horrible. Awful shovelware shit that is thrown on the market with little to no effort. It has every right to be torn apart. As far as I'm concerned neither one of the dudes will ever have any of my money.
 
So you gon' tell me that'chu WASN'T smoking herb? Huh? HUH??? =D

But seriously (fuck this keyboard) I SAID they weren't having a rational, reasonable, logical debate. I said they lost each other repeatedly. It felt like a McLaughlin Group: people bitching louder and louder over each other because louder is what matters, not more correct.

Also... James? Didn't he introduce himself as Roger or Robert or something?
 
So you gon' tell me that'chu WASN'T smoking herb? Huh? HUH??? =D

But seriously (fuck this keyboard) I SAID they weren't having a rational, reasonable, logical debate. I said they lost each other repeatedly. It felt like a McLaughlin Group: people bitching louder and louder over each other because louder is what matters, not more correct.

Also... James? Didn't he introduce himself as Roger or Robert or something?

I may be wrong. Might have been smoking herb. :wiggle:
 
Well, I just found out that Freeman's Mind actually finished late last year. I got tired of waiting a few years ago and totally forgot about it.

I remember it well, waaaaay back. It was very entertaining.

I guess I know what I'm gonna be binge watching this week.
 
Is it one of those Garry's Mod things? I saw a few... and as an animation student they give me a headache.
 
Is it one of those Garry's Mod things? I saw a few... and as an animation student they give me a headache.

You might be looking at them from the wrong perspective. I'm sure you are more than aware that the draw of Gary's Mod is the ease of use for people who don't have animation experience. There are a few good videos out there despite the relatively crude appearance..
 
That's the problem, once you go Graphic designer or animator you can't go back.... I am forever in Pedantic asswhipe mode when it comes to animation.
 
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