GGL previews Fallout 3

[Brother None]

I don't know it just feels to me like people are latching onto whatever they can to complain, since a lot of everyones WORST fears have been alleviated. SPECIAL, branching paths, and the fallout feel have all been preserved so everyone is looking for the most inconsequential bullshit to complain about.

My advice is to be happy we are getting as much as we are getting and remain guarded optimistic instead of vehemently pessimistic It makes life so much easier

I guarantee we'll treat your advice with exactly as much care as it deserves, Person We Don't Know or Have Any Reason To Care About.

 

[Sander]

Before I go into my little rant of what I've noticed from lurking here for a while I just want to restate what I said a few posts up, its just continuing in a line of over the top weaponry and thats what I'm trying to get across.

Then you haven't understood Fallout's setting. If you did, you'd know why a Plasma Rifle does fit, but a nuclear bomb launcher doesn't.
(Hint: it has to do with the way nuclear bombs are viewed)

 

[Juiced]

Because it really doesn't fit the game, yes it has energy weapons and Power Armour but at least some of those are feasable.

The idea of a small nuclear weapon you actually use in personal combat is absurd, even the original Fallout designers knew that.
You mentioned Metal Gear stuff, did they ever in Metal Gear Solid 3 use a Davy Crocket in a personal fight with Snake?

Also, Bethesda brought up the cars that appear to be powered by small atomic bombs, they weren't in the previous games.
Cars running on small energy cells yes, but these do not detonate into small atomic explosions when shot at.

Fallout 2 still referred to the car as being nuclear powered of fission powered, didn't it? Thats what I was getting at, not the cars in FO3 or whatever.

Anyway, you can't use a Davy Crockett from a helicopter either as they did in the opening of MGS3 because its still shooting a nuclear weapon! And I know enough about nuclear weapons to know that a low yield nuke usable by infantry isn't even possible. Then again, it just doesn't bother me that much, belief is suspendable.

Before I go into my little rant of what I've noticed from lurking here for a while I just want to restate what I said a few posts up, its just continuing in a line of over the top weaponry and thats what I'm trying to get across.

Then you haven't understood Fallout's setting. If you did, you'd know why a Plasma Rifle does fit, but a nuclear bomb launcher doesn't.
(Hint: it has to do with the way nuclear bombs are viewed)

I'm just saying that is such a tiny tiny thing to worry about. Its one weapon, and everything else I've seen from the previews looks nice and dandy, why can't people let it go.

Remember the talking deathclaws? I thought that was silly but FO2 is still a fun game.

 

[Sander]

I'm just saying that is such a tiny tiny thing to worry about. Its one weapon, and everything else I've seen from the previews looks nice and dandy, why can't people let it go.

Because everything else isn't positive either. A toaster firing random items? The Super Mutant looking ridiculous? VATS? First-person view? Bobble-heads? A world-wide news station? A forced plot, and a forced age? Unkillable NPCs (because they couldn't come up with a way to have a plot without an unkillable NPC)? The BoS and Super Mutants on the East Coast? The BoS turning Vigilante? The lack of a Fallout feel (mostly due to the cold colours they used) in the screenies? The comments that they're ignoring the fans? The Lingo mini-game (and presumably other mini-games)? The ticketbots shooting lasers? The 'lol you can blow up a town in the first hour of playing'? The constant remarks that violence is funny and Fallout's humour was juxtaposing that violence with Vault Boy? The lack of groin shots?
It all adds up to a lot of crap.
The fact that you pick out only *one* of the gripes and then go 'Stop whining, it's only one thing you're complaining about' shows your dishonesty.

Remember the talking deathclaws? I thought that was silly but FO2 is still a fun game.

Yet it would've been a better game without the talking deathclaws.

 

[Juiced]

Dishonesty? Dishonesty? What in the world would I be intentionally trying to mislead you people about? My guarded optimism towards the game, because I've been pretty honest about that. Haha, dishonesty, like I'm purjuring myself or something, or I have sinister ulterior motives.

Anyway I'd go through your list point by point but I feel like everyone reads these interviews and previews and sees something that doesn't feel like it will be a huge part of the game anyway (like the toaster) and blows it out of proportion.

Whoever said 'lol you can blow up a town' anyway, the town nuke seemed to me a way to illustrate that branching paths are present in the game. This quest chain was mentioned because of the way you can have different outcomes depending on your playing preference, not "holy crap look at that devisation bwahaha"

The fact that the deathclaws were in the game shows that Interplay wasn't immaculate either. Fallout was buggy as hell and Fallout 2 had a lot of goofy stuff in it. Why is Bethesda being held up to so much more scrutiny?

Listening to fans isn't always a good thing anyway, I'm reminded of the scene in the Simpsions when the three nerds are complaining about the Itchy and Scratchy episode

 

[Sander]

Dishonesty? Dishonesty? What in the world would I be intentionally trying to mislead you people about? My guarded optimism towards the game, because I've been pretty honest about that. Haha, dishonesty, like I'm purjuring myself or something, or I have sinister ulterior motives.

Anyway I'd go through your list point by point but I feel like everyone reads these interviews and previews and sees something that doesn't feel like it will be a huge part of the game anyway (like the toaster) and blows it out of proportion.

And again you continue with this bullshit. I give you a long list of different items that are crap about the upcoming game, including *major gameplay items* and all you can say 'Eh, everyone just picks one thing and complains about that and doesn't care about the rest'. Which is absolute horseshit.

Whoever said 'lol you can blow up a town' anyway, the town nuke seemed to me a way to illustrate that branching paths are present in the game.

It was. It was also mentioned time upon time that 'Wow, you can blow up a town in the first few hours. Awesome!!!'

This quest chain was mentioned because of the way you can have different outcomes depending on your playing preference, not "holy crap look at that devisation bwahaha"

The fact that the deathclaws were in the game shows that Interplay wasn't immaculate either. Fallout was buggy as hell and Fallout 2 had a lot of goofy stuff in it. Why is Bethesda being held up to so much more scrutiny?

They aren't. Fallout 2 has been repeatedly criticised for its overdone and somewhat childish humour and bugs. It also featured very few of the original designers on the game.
Why you bring up the bugs I don't know, because that's not what Bethesda is being criticised for at all.

Listening to fans isn't always a good thing anyway, I'm reminded of the scene in the Simpsions when the three nerds are complaining about the Itchy and Scratchy episode

Yet the fans are the people because of whom they supposedly bought the franchise. It cost them several millions of dollars to get the franchise, while they could've just created 'Bethesda's Post-apocalyptic adventure' and it would've had about the same amount of hype.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Yet the fans are the people because of whom they supposedly bought the franchise. It cost them several millions of dollars to get the franchise, while they could've just created 'Bethesda's Post-apocalyptic adventure' and it would've had about the same amount of hype.

And they could actually have attracted fans of the Fallout franchise instead of driving them away and pissing them off.

For example, just because I like Fallout, a full RPG, doesn't mean that I don't like an action adventure with some stat elements that is a whole different franchise along side it.

 

[Vault 69er]

Hell I've seen nothing but positive posts here when talking about games like BioShock and STALKER. But then, neither pretend to be Fallout. Or anything they're not.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Hell I've seen nothing but positive posts here when talking about games like BioShock and STALKER. But then, neither pretend to be Fallout. Or anything they're not.

Hi Vault 69er,

Great examples.

 

[Salkinius]

Well I believe you can combine the two genres and make a really good FPRPG.

Like Deus Ex, Bloodlines or System Shock 2. Great hybrids, those, but due to the nature of their implementation not full-on RPGs.

You used those as examples, I didn’t. I don’t feel them to be great examples, perhaps good ones, but not great. I don’t have to use any example to prove that I… I believe that a great FPRPG could be done.

I do not know however if Fallout 3 will be that title. Don't mind them trying though.

I do. Fallout is an RPG franchise, not a hybrid franchise. They could name this Fallout: Finally in First-person for all I care, but it simply should not be called Fallout 3 when it isn't a real sequel to the first games.

NO Fallout 1 and 2 was an isometric turn-based RPG. The franchise is now owned by Bethesda and Fallout has become a FP RPG. Let’s hope it will be a true RPG as well. We don’t know, do we? We can assume and speculate from the bits of information we have. Nevertheless, we don’t know. There are aspects in the previews, which makes me sad (such as the mutants, the nuclear mini weapons or the fact that there haven’t been any ghouls mentioned. But there are also stuff that makes me hopeful. I believe the dialogue will we ten fold better than that in Oblivion. I believe Bethesda has made an effort in the choice and consequence area and I believe the graphics will be awesome. Overall, I’m still hopeful towards the game and I believe it will feel like fallout, at least to me and that’s the main thing for me.

It won't be a complete FPS, I know I will be using the VATS more than roaming around twitch playing... I at least hope so.

If I play it, that's what I'll be doing. But, as I said, they've noted that they want to make both ways of playing viable.

Yeah and that’s anything thing that’s sad. I just hope they don’t have a cross hair or that you can shoulder aim the guns in RT. I would love some other restrictions as well.

I don't see why BoS in Capital W couldn't have disbanded their original ideas and values after another 30 years.

Which isn't the point. There's no reason to have the Brotherhood of Steel there as the Brotherhood of STeel. All the technology was already available, the BoS have little reasons and even fewer means (unless they decide that they were now producing vertibirds, which seems counter-intuitive to the generally desolate feel of the games and counter to the 'no operable vehicles' statement Bethesda has made) to get to the East Coast. They *could* have changed into a vigilante group while there, but again this seems implausible and frankly unnecessary.

The only *real* reason to have the Brotherhood there is simply to pander to the masses who thought the Brotherhood was cool. The Brotherhood is in no way essential to Fallout.

And I have pointed out that Brotherhood of Steel is a well known part of the franchise and a beloved part to go. If they can explain the presence of BoS, I really don’t see any problem. I think it wouldn’t be a wise move, for Bethesda, to NOT have BoS in the game. I think it’s something the not-so-hardcore fans out there would love to see in the game.

Money! Political, religious or economic factions would all have money enough to sponsor a radio station.

Yes, as I've now said three times already, it would make some sense if it were sponsored as propaganda for a faction. However, as I've also said three times already, this is not the case since it is a player-centric gimmick. And I know this, because I read the previews.

Could you please point to me where the radio is specified to work the way you say it will work? All I can say is that I hope there will be real radio stations sponsored by factions or economical interests, which let you in on a bit of information every now and then.

I don't know if it's going to be a player-centric gimmick, as you put it. I thought it would be a radio transmission, which let you in on clues to as where you might make money (quests, hints and such).

That's mostly transmissions that your Pipboy will pick up, not a radio station.

Also, don't double post.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?????

Double post?

 

[Kukident]

You know, a gauss rifle, powered armor, nuclear powered cars, radiation turning people into ghouls, plasma weaponry, and an army of super mutants bearing down on the world are all normal. Ugh, but a mininuke? You really dropped the ball there Bethesda, thats just STUPID.

Because it really doesn't fit the game, yes it has energy weapons and Power Armour but at least some of those are feasable.

The idea of a small nuclear weapon you actually use in personal combat is absurd, even the original Fallout designers knew that.
You mentioned Metal Gear stuff, did they ever in Metal Gear Solid 3 use a Davy Crocket in a personal fight with Snake?

Also, Bethesda brought up the cars that appear to be powered by small atomic bombs, they weren't in the previous games.
Cars running on small energy cells yes, but these do not detonate into small atomic explosions when shot at.

but dude

xploding atomic cars are just cool!!!

and those nuclear catapults, those explosions, they are huge!!! you won't want to miss them, once you 've launched that thing a couple of times!

but do never forget kids, this is an rpg, because there are stats and skills and dungeons and everything! [/todd]

 

[Nim82]

Juiced:

Ever considered some of us fans have got burnt by their hype before? Bethesda have a track record for lying and plain dishonesty.

They promised a whole heap for MW and Oblivion and never delivered, nor have they owned up to these lies. There's plenty of threads listing them both here and at the Codex. Most of us would admit F2 screwed some things up, but it remained true to the gameplay (the most important thing). Regarding bugs, you do know Oblivion's bugs were just as big right? With their expansion they even managed to introduce a timebomb bug that destroyed a lot of peoples games, after a period. It took them months to fix it, fans had to sort it out themselves first (after discovering it the hardway).

Fallout was always designed (and meant) to be a computerised PnP game, complete with a comic book art style and intentionally turn based combat... That was what FO was about for most of us, and that is what Bethesda have trashed - and they admit that themselves. FO3 was one of the last chances for traditional isometric turn based gameplay to be brought to the fore, via an established brand name and a dev with marketing clout. Instead, Bethsoft have decided to use the license as an excuse to resurrect their run and gun games of yester year, and throw in some gravity guns.

It may be an ok game, but it isn't what Fallout was about. Buying into it would be rewarding them for killing off a niche game.

 

[Sander]

You used those as examples, I didn’t. I don’t feel them to be great examples, perhaps good ones, but not great. I don’t have to use any example to prove that I… I believe that a great FPRPG could be done.

Good for you. It probably could be done, although the nature of the FP view precludes solid, character-based tactical combat. But that doesn't need to be really bad.

NO Fallout 1 and 2 was an isometric turn-based RPG. The franchise is now owned by Bethesda and Fallout has become a FP RPG.

Your point being, what, exactly? That money makes right?
Would you still say that the franchise is now a sports franchise and that that's a good thing if they made it a football game?

And I have pointed out that Brotherhood of Steel is a well known part of the franchise and a beloved part to go. If they can explain the presence of BoS, I really don’t see any problem. I think it wouldn’t be a wise move, for Bethesda, to NOT have BoS in the game. I think it’s something the not-so-hardcore fans out there would love to see in the game.

Which is exactly what I said: a note to pander to the masses who fell in love with the BoS as a vigilante group, which it isn't.

Could you please point to me where the radio is specified to work the way you say it will work? All I can say is that I hope there will be real radio stations sponsored by factions or economical interests, which let you in on a bit of information every now and then.

Go read any of the previews we have on file, or the FAQ for that matter. There will be multiple stations (apparently), but they all focus on your character.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?????

BY READING THE PREVIEWS, GENIUS!

Double post?

Post twice in a row. We have an edit button for a reason.

 

[Vault 69er]

NO Fallout 1 and 2 was an isometric turn-based RPG. The franchise is now owned by Bethesda and Fallout has become a FP RPG.

This is exactly the kind of arrogant smugness that Bethesda possess.
I'll tell you this. It isn't a FPP real time RPG. It will never be that.
Fallout is Fallout. That's what it will always be. Fallout 3? It's a spinoff pretending to be a sequel. Never forget that.

 

[Salkinius]

NO Fallout 1 and 2 was an isometric turn-based RPG. The franchise is now owned by Bethesda and Fallout has become a FP RPG.

Your point being, what, exactly? That money makes right?
Would you still say that the franchise is now a sports franchise and that that's a good thing if they made it a football game?

Now that’s just ridiculous and you know it. But if you want to go that silly path, be my guest.

Could you please point to me where the radio is specified to work the way you say it will work? All I can say is that I hope there will be real radio stations sponsored by factions or economical interests, which let you in on a bit of information every now and then.

Go read any of the previews we have on file, or the FAQ for that matter. There will be multiple stations (apparently), but they all focus on your character.

BY READING THE PREVIEWS, GENIUS!

What about the radio on your Pip-boy?
You can tune in to various of the world’s stations (such as Galactic News Radio) and either listen to it passively as you play the game and hear about events that are taking place, or even possibly pick up random signals in the wastelands that could lead to quests or give you a heads up on some raiders heading your way. Though the radio is mostly flavor stuff, they’ve licensed about 20 songs from the 40’s and there are DJ’s in game that talk about what’s going on in the game. (ref)

From what I read, it doesn’t say at all that the radio stations and the radio transmissions are specific for YOU. It just says that there will be radio stations and radio transmission which you can use to listen to music. The information from the radio stations and the transmissions are just something you might want or might be able to take advantage of. Let say you are planning to head to specific area and then hear on the radio that that specific area has been overrun by mutants. You might not ant to go there then, or you actually might.

 

[Sander]

Your point being, what, exactly? That money makes right?
Would you still say that the franchise is now a sports franchise and that that's a good thing if they made it a football game?

Now that’s just ridiculous and you know it. But if you want to go that silly path, be my guest.

Yes, it's ridiculous. Which is exactly why your remark that Bethesda has 'changed the franchise' is ridiculous, which was my point.

What about the radio on your Pip-boy?
You can tune in to various of the world’s stations (such as Galactic News Radio) and either listen to it passively as you play the game and hear about events that are taking place, or even possibly pick up random signals in the wastelands that could lead to quests or give you a heads up on some raiders heading your way. Though the radio is mostly flavor stuff, they’ve licensed about 20 songs from the 40’s and there are DJ’s in game that talk about what’s going on in the game. (ref)

From what I read, it doesn’t say at all that the radio stations and the radio transmissions are specific for YOU.

Reading problem much?
"You can tune in to various of the world’s stations (such as Galactic News Radio) and either listen to it passively as you play the game and hear about events that are taking place"
Yes, this refers to events that affect you and are caused by you, as explained in different previews.

It just says that there will be radio stations and radio transmission which you can use to listen to music. The information from the radio stations and the transmissions are just something you might want or might be able to take advantage of. Let say you are planning to head to specific area and then hear on the radio that that specific area has been overrun by mutants. You might not ant to go there then, or you actually might.

Previews.

 

[Salkinius]

Your point being, what, exactly? That money makes right?
Would you still say that the franchise is now a sports franchise and that that's a good thing if they made it a football game?

Now that’s just ridiculous and you know it. But if you want to go that silly path, be my guest.

Yes, it's ridiculous. Which is exactly why your remark that Bethesda has 'changed the franchise' is ridiculous, which was my point.

I never said that the fallout franchise will change, that’s what you say. For me, the fallout franchise isn’t based on isometric turn-based RPG. It’s an RPG with so much flavor that any TV-cook reviewing it would go faaaaaantastic, mm mm mmmmm, beauuuuutiful.

From what I read, it doesn’t say at all that the radio stations and the radio transmissions are specific for YOU.

Reading problem much?
"You can tune in to various of the world’s stations (such as Galactic News Radio) and either listen to it passively as you play the game and hear about events that are taking place"
Yes, this refers to events that affect you and are caused by you, as explained in different previews.

Idiot talking much?

I don’t think it’s the entire planet’s radio stations you are able to listen in to. It’s just the game world’s radio stations.

The name Galactic News Radio is only a name, which doesn’t really mean that they are broadcasting to the entire galactic. It’s just a name, and a very 50’s one to go.

It just says that there will be radio stations and radio transmission which you can use to listen to music. The information from the radio stations and the transmissions are just something you might want or might be able to take advantage of. Let say you are planning to head to specific area and then hear on the radio that that specific area has been overrun by mutants. You might not ant to go there then, or you actually might.

Previews.

Could you please help me by linking to the previews you are talking about??? I’ve read them all and can’t find anything to support your argument.

 

[Wooz]

 

[Black]

Wow, a troll who knows better what Fallout is, how nice
It's like this one guy on the TES forum... Something that he doesn't care if Tim Cain or Jesus say that Fallout is emulation of P&P rpgs- they are wrong...
Lovely, hm?

 

[Sander]

I never said that the fallout franchise will change, that’s what you say.

Strike one for lying:
"The franchise is now owned by Bethesda and Fallout has become a FP RPG. "

For me, the fallout franchise isn’t based on isometric turn-based RPG. It’s an RPG with so much flavor that any TV-cook reviewing it would go faaaaaantastic, mm mm mmmmm, beauuuuutiful.

That's neat. If you'd learned to actually read you'd *know* differently.

Idiot talking much?

I don’t think it’s the entire planet’s radio stations you are able to listen in to. It’s just the game world’s radio stations.

The name Galactic News Radio is only a name, which doesn’t really mean that they are broadcasting to the entire galactic. It’s just a name, and a very 50’s one to go.

And strike two for trolling. I didn't mention 'Galactic News Radio' there, I mentioned that the radio seems to be focused on your actions.

Could you please help me by linking to the previews you are talking about??? I’ve read them all and can’t find anything to support your argument.

"Even better, there's a DJ on that station who can fill you in on local events. Once you start having a big impact on the world, you might even hear him referencing your own actions."
http://pc.ign.com/articles/800/800570p4.html