Healthcare reform just passed!

[Per]

Swedes often go to Poland to receive dental treatment and admire their stolen cars in the streets.

just as adequate

If not adequater.

 

[TheGM]

It seems Americans like to waste money on overpriced healthcare.

Quick comparison (I thank my American bro for supplying the nubmers):

America: Removal of three wisdom teeth, 1 hour procedure: 4800$
Poland: Removal of three wisdom teeth, 1 hour procedure: 100$

How come we're not nearly as well off as America, but our healthcare is waay cheaper and just as adequate?

Like? No no my friend, they don't like it they put up with it. They say "O well what ya gonna do bout it" and avoid going to the doctor until they are half dead and it ends up costing them a arm and a leg anyway, So you a fucked no matter what you do.

A Oral surgery procedure that took only 35 minutes from incision cost me about 497$ to remove a impacted wisdom tooth + plus the one it destroyed. And that was cheap. And guess what, It was a Dentist from Poland.

 

[Crni Vuk]

you being sarcastic about having more taxes its ok. Being sarcastic for more welfare is almost funny, if not depressing.

Interesting is that even without any welfare at all they might end in paying more taxes anyway since someone will just tell em that the military needs a few new toys and a patriot and good american will pay gladly for this safety

Already Eisenhower warned for such effects ... military industrial complex and all that.

 

[OakTable]

We have too many things to be doing right now. This Healthcare thing could be better spent on helping create jobs and stimulate the economy. Maybe the poor could pay for it themselves if they had jobs. The healthcare bill doesn't solve the underlying problem (being poor), it just makes the government look nice.

 

[maximaz]

If I'm to be completely honest, I still don't get what this bill actually does. All I know is that it isn't universal healthcare and people will still need to buy insurance.

 

[Professor Danger!]

If I'm to be completely honest, I still don't get what this bill actually does. All I know is that it isn't universal healthcare and people will still need to buy insurance.

Let's see. If you don't have it and aren't poor enough to qualify in not having it, you will be fined by the government.

My favourite part are the side things. Especially with student university loans. Now you'll owe the irs instead of private corps. and banks. So hey, if you have a hard time. You might be lucky enough to go to jail instead of working something out in the private sector.

Oh! And taxes on tanning beds!

What these have to do with the so-called "healthcare reform" is beyond me.

 

[the_cpl]

I pay a little bit more taxes, it's not a big deal. How much more? 8%? It's ok. But I really hope the government doesn't plan to spend it on illegal immigrants. If they spend it on homeless US citizens and legal immigrants, it's ok.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Now you'll owe the irs instead of private corps. and banks.

Fuck, I'd better get on repaying my loan.

 

[alec]

Let's see. If you don't have it and aren't poor enough to qualify in not having it, you will be fined by the government.

We have the Zorgkas, which is a similar system. We pay €25/year and this is just in case we fall ill one day and can't pay our hospital bills, 'cause then the government will carry the expenses. If you never need it yourself, you're basically supporting other people (which is regarded as a good (Samaritan) thing). I find it a very neat little system. €25 is affordable and if you can't afford it, you can just send them the right documents (unemployment, OCMW) and you will still be part of the system. However if you never paid the €25 and you didn't have a good excuse to do so, you can get a fine (after a couple of years) and of course if you fall ill and you can't pay for it, you shouldn't expect that this Zorgkas system will cover your arse.

Common sense dictates that this is a good system. I know my grandparents are f'ing happy to have it, otherwise they'd be eating out of some gutter by now, seeing how sick my grandfather is.

Oh! And taxes on tanning beds!

What these have to do with the so-called "healthcare reform" is beyond me.

Uhm... if by tanning bed you mean one of them solarium sofas, the word you're looking for is 'skin cancer'.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

Let's see. If you don't have it and aren't poor enough to qualify in not having it, you will be fined by the government.

My understanding is that the fines you may incur for not buying the insurance are actually a lot less than what you'd be paying for the coverage itself. So in theory you could go without paying for the coverage, and then just eat the small fine whenever you needed to use it.

 

[SimpleMinded]

If I'm to be completely honest, I still don't get what this bill actually does. All I know is that it isn't universal healthcare and people will still need to buy insurance.

Rather than listen to Professor Danger's whining, here's an actual list of what the bill does:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319


And danger, the taxes on tanning beds are because the ones using those types of lights can cause long term damage to a person's health. So if the health care reform has to pay for it in the long run, it wants money from it now. It's also a way to partly fund the health care so it's relevant.

I'm not sure how the education stuff got in there though or if it's only in the reconciliation piece.

 

[Per]

We have the Zorgkas, which is a race of alien overlords. They live here in the Netherlands.

It's not Samaritan if you're forced to do it by a governing body under threat of punishment. It could still be a practical thing, but not a moral thing.

 

[maximaz]

I pay a little bit more taxes, it's not a big deal. How much more? 8%? It's ok. But I really hope the government doesn't plan to spend it on illegal immigrants. If they spend it on homeless US citizens and legal immigrants, it's ok.

Well, I would imagine that people will need to qualify for government sponsored care. They would probably make sure you are a legal at that level. Overall, it makes less and less sense not to give some kind of a legal taxable status to the illegals. Hopefully, immigration reform is next.

 

[Professor Danger!]

If I'm to be completely honest, I still don't get what this bill actually does. All I know is that it isn't universal healthcare and people will still need to buy insurance.

Rather than listen to Professor Danger's whining, here's an actual list of what the bill does:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319


.

Oh, my bad. I thought I could have a discussion with people. But instead it's the usual "whining" retorec. Good play.

Quotes from your article:

*A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

*An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

These companies will actually just eat the cost and pass the savings on. Oh wait...

The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.

Yay, more taxes! I forgot about the right of people who worked to become wealthy now have to give up all their shit. And of course, the government is nice enough to not tell them exactly where it goes.

Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Health care tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.

Ah, remember when America was a country of choice? Well, heath care was once looked at as a privilege. Yes, you can be treated for anything in the ER, buy you'll be expected to pay. If you don't, I'm assuming it goes to collections and you can work stuff out with them. Payment plans and whatnot. Now, it's not a right to have health care. It's a requirement. And it's a crime if you don't. Or are POOR enough to disqualify from something that began this whole fucking thing.

*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.

Good buy jobs. There's a lot of places that don't offer insurance. Most employees may be temporary or part time. Once again, employers aren't going to eat this fine. And if they do, if they produce something...why the prices skyrocket.

n excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions

.

Ah, especially those in high risk and are retirees, You spend your life working and would like to kick back, retire, play a little golf. But oh wait, the government is still knocking on your door for for and more money.


And I can only see more taxes and higher taxes coming along. This bill is far from okay. It can be fixed. And I do like parts of it.


But yeah, I'm "whining". Sorry for not shoving my ass in front of the tv to watch the latest episode of "Dancing with the Stars" or "American Idol" and chowing down on a box of ho-hos. God forbid I voice an opinion that, living in America, IS one of my rights.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Stop fooling around guys, this is a big fucking deal.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIE5WVu6vM[/youtube]

 

[SimpleMinded]

But yeah, I'm "whining". Sorry for not shoving my ass in front of the tv to watch the latest episode of "Dancing with the Stars" or "American Idol" and chowing down on a box of ho-hos. God forbid I voice an opinion that, living in America, IS one of my rights.

Not sure what you mean with the dancing with the stars, idol deal. Can you elaborate further what you actually are implying by that?

As for whining, someone asked what the health care reform stated and all you said was that it changes student loans and taxes tanning beds. Fine, pretend you're having a discussion but regardless, you're not actually contributing much to the discussion to which you were "replying."

 

[Tagaziel]

Ah, remember when America was a country of choice? Well, heath care was once looked at as a privilege. Yes, you can be treated for anything in the ER, buy you'll be expected to pay. If you don't, I'm assuming it goes to collections and you can work stuff out with them. Payment plans and whatnot. Now, it's not a right to have health care. It's a requirement. And it's a crime if you don't. Or are POOR enough to disqualify from something that began this whole fucking thing.

Health care is a basic human right. The bill will result in an overall increase of the number of Americans with access to health care.

That said, America will remain a third world country health-care wise.

 

[Professor Danger!]

Health care is a basic human right.

Since when?

 

[Sander]

Ah, remember when America was a country of choice? Well, heath care was once looked at as a privilege. Yes, you can be treated for anything in the ER, buy you'll be expected to pay. If you don't, I'm assuming it goes to collections and you can work stuff out with them. Payment plans and whatnot. Now, it's not a right to have health care. It's a requirement. And it's a crime if you don't. Or are POOR enough to disqualify from something that began this whole fucking thing.

I don't get your argument. Are you arguing that people who can't afford health care don't have the right to be treated for diseases? Are you arguing that everyone has the right to be treated, but they'll be saddled with the debts for it?

*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.

*Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

These are the key changes. This will eventually lower the total cost of insurance by a huge amount, because now insurance companies have a much wider base to spread around the costs of the current insured base - which consists of the higher-risk portion of society.

Ah, especially those in high risk and are retirees, You spend your life working and would like to kick back, retire, play a little golf. But oh wait, the government is still knocking on your door for for and more money.

Your compassion for the retirees who have to pay the government is interesting given your lack of compassion for the retirees who are paying their butts off for medical care and coverage.

 

[Tagaziel]

Health care is a basic human right.

Since when?

Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Adopted in 1948 by the United NAtions, of which the United States continues to be a member. USA voted in favour of the bill and as such accepts the definition of "human rights" as set forth by the documents.

So, yeah, health care is a basic human right. To argue against is, well, sick and inhumane.