Is the US a shitty place to live?

It's not one joke picture though. It's everytime there's a conversation about the US, you pop in with something negative to say.
That's not true. Check out my first post in this thread, where I'm praising the beauty of wilderness in North Dakota actually, because it reminds me of wild nature and landscape in my own native heath. When TorontRayne compared Mongolians to some fictional nation from Game of Thrones later, I just posted image from Idiocracy, which caused some hurly-burly feelings to you for some reason. This won't stop me from praising good things and criticising bad things of course, because I'm bitching about stupid things passionately and without any prejudices - no matter whether it's Russian, American, Slovak, Italian, or any other shit, mind you.

I'm wondering what the US did to you that made you have such a grudge against it?
Well, because you are asking, there's a few things I'd like to point out!
First, our biggest refinery Apollo was almost destroyed by American bombing in June 16, 1944. Which is understandable, because we were in state of war with U.S. as a Hitler's satellite state at that moment. The bombing itself was not a nice thing anyway, lot of civilians died here. Some NSFW pictures:

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Second, the war between USA and Slovakia never ended, at least officialy. We haven't signed any peace treaty, so technically speaking, we are in state of war now. (War was ended by forfeiture several decades ago, of course. I'm slightly sarcastic, so take it easy folks!)

Nuff' said, this is history, I don't bear any irrational grudges against Americans. In fact, there's a lot of my family members living in USA and Canada, so I'm well aware of any pros and cons of living there. :wink:

So, let's bury a hatchet when everything was explained, shall we? No need to be touchy, man.
 
But what about YOU personally? That was the question. How has any of this stuff effected YOU personally. Did you loose a great-grandpa/great-grandma in the WWII bombing? That's all I was asking.

There's just a lot of unnecessary hate coming out of Europe right now. No, the US isn't perfect, but what nation is? (Tibet when it was nothing but peaceful monks after the Qing Dynasty and before the Chinese invasion in the 50's doesn't count :wink:). You could pull up dirt on any nation in the world with a ten second Google search. Lots of it, too.
 
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Well, the US right now is the biggest player with the highest political and military power. On a global scale. So it is not that surprising that they will see a lot attention, what ever if that is always justifable or not is a whole different question. Because obviously not EVERYTHING they did was simply bad. But this focus on the US and their actions should not be a surprise for anyone really. The US is the nation with the highest military presence outside of their teritory today and they have the capability to strike almost everyone at every time, it is the US with the highest number of drone strikes for example. Not to mention the nuclear power they have in their arsenal which creates a lot of fear in adition to the military operations by the US. You could say the US is today what the British Empire was 150 years ago, or the Spanish, Ottomans or Romans etc. It is more or less a joke but it has some truth when they call the US the Romans of our time.

Just to name one example, it is the US with the highest prescene of inteligence in Germany and not Russia or China. So it is only natural that the population in Germany will have a higher sensibility with the US and more resentment with their politics.
 
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But what about YOU personally? That was the question. How has any of this stuff effected YOU personally. Did you loose a great-grandpa/great-grandma in the WWII bombing? That's all I was asking.

There's just a lot of unnecessary hate coming out of Europe right now. No, the US isn't perfect, but what nation is? (Tibet when it was nothing but peaceful monks after the Qing Dynasty and before the Chinese invasion in the 50's doesn't count :wink:). You could pull up dirt on any nation in the world with a ten second Google search. Lots of it, too.
You must be a New York Yankees fan or something. It's not enough for you to dominate everyone, they have to like you to?

I don't get how a picture of President Camacho can set you off. If the nation's first pornstar/pro-wrestler president can't unite us in this modern age, then we, as a species, are doomed.

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No, the US isn't perfect, but what nation is? (Tibet when it was nothing but peaceful monks after the Qing Dynasty and before the Chinese invasion in the 50's doesn't count :wink:).

You mean their monarchic period where every one who wasn't a monk living in a luxury castle was a slave, poor, taxed to hell, tortured, you name it?
 
But what about YOU personally? That was the question. How has any of this stuff effected YOU personally. Did you loose a great-grandpa/great-grandma in the WWII bombing? That's all I was asking.

There's just a lot of unnecessary hate coming out of Europe right now. No, the US isn't perfect, but what nation is? (Tibet when it was nothing but peaceful monks after the Qing Dynasty and before the Chinese invasion in the 50's doesn't count :wink:). You could pull up dirt on any nation in the world with a ten second Google search. Lots of it, too.
You must be a New York Yankees fan or something. It's not enough for you to dominate everyone, they have to like you to?

That is actually pretty clever, when you think about it.

See if someone mentions the American Economy, its shortcomings or dronestrikes, the war on terror, Afghanistan/Iraq and all the negative effects, obviously 100 000 killed Iraqis etc. you just explain the criticiszm as an agenda of anti-americanism and all of it beeing actually a larger part of a general resentment against the US. Unneccessary hate to say it with those words.

That way you don't have to actually argue the points of the criticism anymore and it becomes a debate about anti americanism.
 
Haters gonna hate. If you are first among equals, you can only go down.

It's funny how behind every single criticism of the U.S., there is the subtle suggestion that we should essentially fuck off and hide our fucking heads in the sand. You know, give jackasses like Putin or the chinese a chance to boss the world around a little bit. Hell, we should have served up Vietnam to the soviets on a silver platter AKA Czechs to Hitler. But we had PEACE in our time.

Its just as amusing how other countries rightfully criticize the Americans and their belief that democracy solves everything yet they turn around and proclaim the same shit with socialism/communism/Islam, etc,etc.

God fucking forbid we defend ourselves when someone takes some obscure place run by morons and blanket statement the entire nation as suffering under the same problem.

But yea, I noticed all the examples I have posted get pretty much ignored and steamrolled under the 'SOCIALISM #1', train. Hence, FUCK THIS KEYBOARD.
 
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[snip]

Hence, FUCK THIS KEYBOARD.
I think you don't understand with which context I was using the phrase "fuck this keyboard"... because I lost my computer to a dead PSU and was unable to go about my day-to-day internet perusal with the exception of a laptop I'd bought months earlier and quickly put away because of how much I disliked it. When my computer was running, I was all-too eager to postpone ANY online access while I was on the go, if it meant I was coming home to a system I built and cherished and was comfortable using. Suddenly I was out of that option, and I had to use a laptop I really didn't like. I still don't like it. The fact that it got me through the period of my PC being dead didn't change the fact that I don't like the laptop. The keys are too scrunched together, too flat, too indiscriminate from one another, so when I'm typing up something, I INVARIABLY type a key I didn't mean to, and any number of unfortunate things happen as a result. The best case scenario is a misspelling, and that bothers me. But worse, it's closed windows, it's opened the bullshit Windows 8 Start Page (WHO thought that was a good idea?????), it's opened a drop-down window and any effort to continue typing just results in the alarm ping telling me I have to resolve this drop down before anything else, and so on and so on. It's been a major inconvenience to use, and its only saving grace was being a computer while my computer was being repaired. But the keyboard it came with could go to Hell. THAT'S what "fuck this keyboard" means.

As for the rest of your post... yes on the latter half, but a major no on the upper half. "Let Putin and China have a chance to boss the world around"? Uh, no. Nothing like that. Putin has been showing, time after time, he's the most capable world-leader around right now, using words to display the hypocrisy and ignorance of his American counterpart(s) when they try to sound big, using force to prevent unmitigated bloodshed, using posturing to stop idiots from beginning YET ANOTHER war in his neighborhood (yet across the world from them), and so on and so on. China, meanwhile, is the REASON the U.S. can continue to operate the way it has been, despite debt crisis after debt crisis, because China OWNS most of our debt! Without Putin, the world would have fallen apart into WW3. Without China, the U.S. would have collapsed into a worse state that Greece right now. We are NOT showing either of them up, and it's silly to pretend that we are somehow better than either of them.

Putin was absolutely right when he put Obama in his place for being a fool when Obama espoused the tired and flawed line about American Exceptionalism. Putin prevented a war with Iran because Stateside morons like Kerry thought the only solution was to make bombing threats. Putin is the only major deterrent from ISIS growing out of control because he's backing one of its biggest oppositions, Syria, while the U.S. is consistently backing the terrorists. China has grown an industry capable of accepting foreign debt to the extreme in billions and billions of dollars because their focus is on longevital growth, meanwhile U.S. interests fixates on short-term solutions and is actively shunning long-term solutions because it so easily caves to interest groups.

China doesn't want the U.S. to collapse because China wants its money back. Putin doesn't want the U.S. to collapse because he wants what little stability we DO provide to not be destroyed. The U.S. needs them just as much as they need the U.S., but the citizens here are too brainwashed to realize this. Don't be just another one of them.

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How has any of this stuff effected YOU personally. Did you loose a great-grandpa/great-grandma in the WWII bombing? That's all I was asking.
I lost family during the holocaust in WWII. My Deka (grandfather) broke down and cried one time while he and I were watching the History Channel (back when it was still good... if just mostly about Hitler and Sharks) and it brought painful memories of WWII back to him, which he relived right in front of me. He never even told MY MOTHER (his daughter) any of this. So lessons of WWII, the crimes of the Ustasa, the Nazis, Tito, life being persecuted under Communist rule... I learned first hand from family who lived it. My Baka (grandmother) barely made it out of Dachau alive, and she looked little more than one of those skeletons you see pictures of, when she did.

So after a Nationalist Socialist Party and a Communist Party makes my family's life Hell, and yet I keep my reasons and preferences rationalized conclusions that I came to an understanding of all on my own and I work to separate emotions and morals out of any discussion and isolate them from my reasonings..... You just have to wonder what it is that makes certain people tick; people with NO connection to the things they irrationally hate.
 
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china has a century old grudge with taiwan. china and vietnam have tussled. japan and china have issues. china has not only increased military development but island building as well. they are woking on building a domestic carrier and training on the liaoning. china wants force projection. this is not viewed as positive by its neighbors.

although the chinese made money hand over fist playing everyone off one another, growth is slowing and their markets at present are fucked to shit. i would be careful not to give the cpc cronies too much credit here.

putin wants to restore the old empire, have you heard his speech? if you intent on trashing america, please don't dismiss as 'just rhetoric'. ex-soviet satellites have good reason to fear putin.

puti is mad because turkeys missile defense shield encompasses russia. so other nations have shields but turkey cannot? bullshit. again, putins words.

if putin was such a good guy, he wouldn't need military force and to force the ukranians to choose between the eu/russia package. if he didn't want ukraine and ex soviet satellites to join NATO, well he just fucked up big time.

i didn't say collapse btw, russia and china would love U.S. forces to go home permanently. OR, have the U.S., do things that benefit them only. i wonder how much obamnuts had to concede to russia and china for the current iran deal where it takes a month plus to get access to sites iran deems classified. but were going to give iran billions to back hamas/hezbollah/houthis, etc.

terrorist support? i disagree but for arguments sake, better the devil you do know than the one you dont. even the israelis would agree with the arabs that the current iran deal is shit.

if given enough time and sure the americans won't stop them, i have no doubt these folks will go stomping around. you can hold onto your naivete if yo so wish, others have accused me as such as well.

TBH, if what you said was true, china and russia would work/ally with the west effectively dissolving NATO. But nope, russia and china would rather enhance their own penis sizes then creating a new global power bloc consisting of the permanent security council working together with one goal, one purpose. btw, its no so hard for such an alliance to figure out deals that would benefit everyone.

i have already discussed this with crni and gonzalez so i wont really be debating too much as essentially im considered a bit naive and too optimistic to hope for such progress and i guess i agree, pride is a strong emotion.

but imagine, a united security council that works as one instead of 3 united members bickering with the other 2 who are clearly too prideful to ally with anyone (im talking along a close alliance much like NATO) including eachother.
 
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putin wants to restore the old empire, have you heard his speech?
You're just rehashing a twisted misrepresentation of his words that the West LOVES to throw around. It's like that "Iran wants to nuke Israel" bullshit that people love to spread all over the place... Nothing of the kind was said, but oh, let's pretend it WAS said, and repeat it forever and ever!!! Putin expressed his admiration of an ideal, and that having LIVED through the Soviet era, he witnessed a form of stability and security under certain systems that he wishes to return Russia to. This has nothing to do with "bringing the old empire back", and everything to do with the man having a vision for bettering his country. Whether you agree with him or not, if Russia isn't your country, then you have no real say in the matter.

if you intent on trashing america, please don't dismiss as 'just rhetoric'.
Y'know, I agreed with a lot of what you'd been saying, but SUDDENLY now that I've disagreed with you, I'm "intent on trashing America"? Since when? Have you even been reading what I've said?

if putin was such a good guy, he wouldn't need military force and to force the ukranians to choose between the eu/russia package.
How about using force to stop an all-out ethnic civil war? Cause that's exactly what he did. Call it annexation with all the xenophobia you can muster, he saved millions of Russian lives from Ukrainian persecution, because SOME groups *COUGH*West*COUGH* were stirring up trouble and brewing that powder keg to go off. Russia's occupying military presence stopped the country from exploding into unending racial violence. But nobody talks about that. No, let's talk about how Putin invaded a sovereign nation. Let's talk about how Putin started a war. Nevermind STOPPING a civil war... oh no, Putin STARTED a war! Empty-headed hate-mongering.

terrorist support? i disagree
You CANNOT possibly disagree on this if you remotely have a clue about what's going on with Syria. It's no secret that the U.S. wants Assad out, and they never miss a moment to paint him as some kind of evil dictator. ( Foreign news outlets ceased interviewing Assad when they realized they couldn't edit him into a devil; they were probably used to nation leaders being morons, because of their experience with their home governments. =P ) Assad's trying to hold his country together, rebel dissidents are trying to tear it apart, and these rebels are all terrorists, backed by- you guessed it -the U.S.!

In order to get Assad out, the U.S. happily took to supporting these rebels. THEN suddenly ISIS springs up from one of these groups, and politicians began scrambling to explain how "there are many different groups of rebels" and stubbornly (and stupidly) insisting "we're only supporting the good ones". Yeah, because you can tell who you're giving crates of firearms to are totally not gonna be nasty bastards once you arm them, right? They tried to evade the obvious implication that they helped CREATE ISIS, but that fact is out there for the world to see. It doesn't matter that ISIS has spread and caused enough unspeakable horror for all to see that now people can rally behind words of condemnation against them without any troubling questions of whether this is the wrong thing to do; it's already too late. They created their own monster, so even if they try to rally against it, it doesn't change the fact that they made this horrible atrocity.

This isn't even the first time it's happened. The U.S. has a nasty habit of installing groups in power in places that it comes to regret years later. Saddam was backed by the U.S., then spun around and condemned him back in the 90s and 00s. Bin Laden was funded by the U.S. because they assumed he would always fight the Soviets, then he grew his organization and targeted America instead. OOPS??? Don't be blind. "Better the devil you know" is a self-defeating argument. Don't side with ANY devil, or has decades of voting for the lesser of two evils just worn you down to expecting that evils are the only choice you have?
 
Hey, sounds like conspiracy and Iranian propaganda to me. Yes, once again, the great satan has made ISIS along with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, etc, etc. Everytime we intervene in the world, regardless for us or our allies, we are destined to screw up. We should really stick our heads in the sand.

And yea, the Ukrainians have a shit ton of M1 Abrahms and Bradleys courtesy of the U.S. for our genocidal civil war. Thats right, U.S. military soldiers were sent to turn Ukraine into a U.S. puppet state, even though its the E.U., they wanted to join. You think the E.U. is a puppet state too eh?

Well since I am not Taiwanese or Japanese, or Jewish, etc, I am not entitled to an opinion?

You say Putin and the CPC are peace lovers who bare no ill will to those nations near they're borders. I have given reasons opposite, but its great satan propaganda, so its wrong.

Lets take Afghanistan for example. We armed the Mujihadeen, NOT, Al Qaeda, this is confirmed both by Bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri, among others. So we helped them kick out the Soviets,(man too bad they couldn't enjoy the peace and prosperity Putin talks about), like they WANTED us to do, it doesn't mean they necessarily want us telling them how to form a government. If we did, we would turn them into an evil puppet state. So, we leave the responsibilty to the people and their warlords fuck it up. Man we just can't get a break.

Saddam, yes, our SUNNI allies liked him and so did we. Sunnis in the region were scared to death of Irans' Shia revolution spreading. He had a fucking shit ton of support from SUNNIs EVERYWHERE. The minute he invaded Kuwait, he fucked it up. His doing, not ours. I don't know why either. We should have toppled him during the first gulf war instead of wussing out.

The Shah had SAVAK, and much like Diem, he should have listened to his people more instead of just unilaterally pushing for rapid secularism and modernisation of the nation. Also the Soviets agitation and some radical islamist elements didn't help. We should have told him, 'Hey stop being an ass to your people. We need BOTH you AND the Saudis as part of our dual pillars strategy. You know, representation for both SUNNIS and SHIAS'. We should have given him more advice. But, that would be us meddling even more into Iranian affairs. So instead, Carter threw in the towel, and abandoned him. Khomeini said he wouldn't take power post revolution. We know how that turned out. Khomeini promised hope and change but came up short. But yea, fuck realism and politics, death to america.

Seriously, hope you don't mind me hijacking your blurb but I like it, fuck this keyboard.

PS: Sorry for the personal attack (trashing on the U.S.), your comment about how I was close to joining the masses of U.S. sheeple rubbed me the wrong way. Also, IMO, the way you defended Putin and the CPC. Its your opinion, friendly debate. Anyways, yeah, we do agree on the internal problems that effects our nation even though we dis-agree on foreign policy.
 
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Haters gonna hate. If you are first among equals, you can only go down.

It's funny how behind every single criticism of the U.S., there is the subtle suggestion that we should essentially fuck off and hide our fucking heads in the sand. You know, give jackasses like Putin or the chinese a chance to boss the world around a little bit. Hell, we should have served up Vietnam to the soviets on a silver platter AKA Czechs to Hitler. But we had PEACE in our time.

Its just as amusing how other countries rightfully criticize the Americans and their belief that democracy solves everything yet they turn around and proclaim the same shit with socialism/communism/Islam, etc,etc.

God fucking forbid we defend ourselves when someone takes some obscure place run by morons and blanket statement the entire nation as suffering under the same problem.

But yea, I noticed all the examples I have posted get pretty much ignored and steamrolled under the 'SOCIALISM #1', train. Hence, FUCK THIS KEYBOARD.

Yes. It is amusing. How much do you actually know about the Vietnamwar? The fact alone that you say "We should have served up Vietnam to the soviets on a silver platter" tells me a lot about your historical knowledge, the idea that Vietnam would become a pawn of the Soviets wasn't very realistic. I suggest that you try and read something about Vietnam and it's history. The Vietnamese nation had much more ties to China than Soviet Russia, they have been occupied by China a couple of times. And they hated the Chinese as much if not even more than the Americans. But they havn't been in war with China that is, and the nation had to overcome the effects of western colonialisation.

This idea of one unified communist world was simply wrong. Infact China and the Soviets almost started a war. See the Sino-Soviet border conflict, open hostility between the Soviet Union and China.

Maybe it would not be the best solution for your politicans to hide your heads in the sand. But it would definitely be the best solution for the world. At least today. The western world has never seen as much peace and prosperity like in the last 30-40 years and the reason for that is beacause we also exploit those that have no chance to defend them self. And than we act all surprised when they fall back to terrorism, extremism and following dictators that we often enough supply and support either openly or secretly. Ask your self where has someone like Assad actually got its gass from? Or who's suplied the fighters from ISIS before it become a problem?

Hey, sounds like conspiracy and Iranian propaganda to me. Yes, once again, the great satan has made ISIS along with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, etc, etc. Everytime we intervene in the world, regardless for us or our allies, we are destined to screw up. We should really stick our heads in the sand.
Seriously. Yes. That is what you should do for once. It would lead to a better situation. What makes you think that the nations today can't solve their issues alone without American intervention? I think only the most naive would not see ISIS or al qaida as sideeffects of 30 years of american/european foreign policy. You are destined to screw up when you're dealing with civil wars and military intervention. The last 30 years show that very nicely. We are not talking here about WW2 or the Cold War. The examples where the Americans AND Europeans screwed up are so numerous that it's staggering. Ask the South Americans. Ask the Africans. Ask anyone in the middle east and Asia. And I am not even talking about the common person, I am talking also about scholars, historians and academics. They might not be always right in their assessment, but they can give you a very unique look from the outside. And they usually know their history better than we do. Like the victims of Pinochets regime.

The US has a very bad reputation in many of those places. And even if a lot of it could be simply shrugged off as pure propaganda and anti americanism it is very difficult to ignore the arguments and simply asking questions.

Hate doesn't come simply out of the blue you know. For the same reason that east europeans hate Russia with a passion many of the milde eastern and african nations hate the US. The people there have reasons to spit out all that hate because they have a common history with the US. Even if it is very often unreasonable. When civlians and whole villages get bombed to hell and governments overthrown it is not very hard to understand where the hate is coming from.

Many of the severe problems in the middle east began with the American presence in Kuwait, although the history goes as far back as to the end of WW2 and the 70s and when someone like Kissinger says "Oil is much too important a commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs" it should tell you enough about the intentions. I suggest to read something about Zbigniew Brzeziński and his analysis about US american geostrategy. And it really is not just a conspiracy, as far as I know they recently opened many of the confidental CIA files regarding Iran and Iraq which speak their own language. CIA Files confirming their Role in the 1953 Iran Coup and prove America Helped Saddam as he Gassed Iran in the 1980s - Halabja chemical attack. And there are many of such examples. Including Britain and France which did pretty much the same thing in their sphere, BP Oil, French involvement in Africa and so on.

Take a map and look up all the US and European military instalations around the world like the US forces in Arabia and the middle east and ask your self who's actually thratened. You? Or the Moslems living down there which eventually have US military personal right next to them, this is a very important point for the radicalisation of many young muslims. For example what would the American people think if Russia would have a permanent military prescence in Mexico with their airfoce and ground units or if Brazil had military instalations in Canada, if China would circle around Hawai day and night with their airrcraft carrier. All of it purely for defensive reasons of course! Would you not feel threatened? Or question at least their motivations?

Of course those religious extremists are fanatics and they are dangerous. But what the US does with their foreign policy is what fuels them. You play directly in to their hands. And I can only believe that this is exactly what many American politicans and military leaders want with the common american citizen not realizing the conection. Something that can be only described as a permanent state of instability. Could you imagine what happens if the midle east would some day get the idea to unify? Comparable to what the European Union is today for example. Many of the nations in the midle east are in conflict with each other. Yet it is explained in the US as a kind of threat to their way of life which makes me laugh. Right now the ones with the highest amount of foreign military intervetion is not the Iran, Iraq, Syria or Lybanon. Those are the ones that buy US and Russian weapons to kill each other. And that is the point to consider here. That's why it is important to keep them in constant conflict with each other.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

We can argue over words but frankly the PRC invaded the Socialist Republic Of Vietnam. The PRC would have been much more aggressive had Deng not feared soviet escalation.

I never made one mention of a communist world. I DID say that Vietnam, as proven down the road, was much more amenable to the soviets than the prc.

The Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, a pro-china communist government was the last straw in what the PRC viewed as ever increasing soviet control over global communist activity. Hemmed in not only by western allies but hostile communist governments, Mao made a momentous decision that the U.S. and NOT the U.S.S.R., was the future and boy was he right. Just giving credit where credit is due, I am not supporting the cultural revolution or the great leap forward, etc.

But yea, the USSR was a gigantic communist dickbag, even to other communists. Honestly, the example is even the communist countries couldn't even agree on communism, how fucked up is that. The west on the other hand:

Oh yea, we were hypocrits by not supporting the Viet Minh but guess what, thats because the FRENCH our ALLIES, did not want this. See how even though while being hypocrits, we stayed true to our allies. As a superpower, our allies were valued members, not some thing to be used and tossed away when convenient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence#Among_Muslims

Sectarian violence between the two major sects of Islam, Shia and Sunni, has occurred in countries like Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Lebanon etc. This violent conflict has roots in the political turmoil arising out of differences over the succession to Muhammad. Abu Bakr, a companion of Muhammad, was nominated by Umar and elected as the first Sunni Rightly Guided Caliph. However another group felt that Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, had been designated by Muhammad and is considered by Shia as the first Imam.

But oh no, its much more convenient to lay the ENTIRETY of blame on the U.S.

I posted many middle east examples as above, but feel free to disagree and ignore because its convenient.

Yes we were dirty, but so was our biggest adversary. What the other side obtains, we must obtain more. I have never disputed this. This is my primary argument of why Russia and China should join the rest of the permanent security council. I mean, the UK, France and the US have been getting along fine. Would europeans be such staunch and dependable allies if we were a nation of shit? The fact that we work together should show the other 2 that if they joined the global power bloc, the whole dynamic and relationship would adapt. Instead of Russia and China suing for gains that ONLY benefit themselves, the 5 working together could make sure everything works more smoothly. But yea, this is an old topic beaten to death.

The USSR wanted to do exactly what you describe. They wanted soviet bases near the U.S. One major problem though, the countries near us wanted NOTHING from the USSR. Their offer ABSOLUTELY sucked compared to ours. NATO worked out pretty well though. The only difference was, Castro, riding on righteous anti-american anger, traded the american pimp for the soviet pimp. Where Batista and his kind took advantage of people economically, Castro was willing to have Cuba glassed, bad deal if you ask me.

BTW, IMO, NATO exists because Russia and China refuse to play ball. NATO simply doesn't buy into the idea that we can trust Russia or the CPC if we essentially disband a strong and quite helpful alliance. They can bitch all they want but at the end of the day, only Russia and China can make NATO irrelevant.

Did you totally ignore what I said about who would end up replacing the U.S. as the world police man? But oh yea, as long the big bad U.S. boogeyman is gone, here comes the utopia.
 
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Oh yea, we were hypocrits by not supporting the Viet Minh but guess what, thats because the FRENCH our ALLIES, did not want this. See how even though while being hypocrits, we stayed true to our allies. As a superpower, we actually had a pretty good co-operation with our allies unlike the Warsaw Pact which was more Soviet dominated.
Like the one time when US submarines crossed Swedish borders to make it look like it was Soviet Agression.

The submarine hunts or submarine incidents were a series of several incidents involving foreign submarines that occurred in Swedish territorial waters during the Cold War. In this time, there was intensive debate and speculation in Swedish media about the possibility of Soviet submarine infiltration of Swedish territorial waters. However, later evidence points towards that most intrusions were done by NATO countries, possibly in a deception operation.[SUP][1][/SUP]
(...)

But Sweden wasn't a NATO member. And it is of course coinsidence that it all hapend in a time when the Swedish Government under Olof Palme was seeking out peacefull relationships with the Sovietunion.

What about itally though? Operation Gladio and the NATO Stay behind armies which still raise questions even today. What about the NSA affair in Germany? What would the US people think if the German BND was spying openly on Obama.

True and loyal to their allies. May ass.

Yes we were dirty, but so was our biggest adversary.
Which one? Are we now talking about the Cold War? I never said that I blame the US for ALL of the political and military conflicts in this world. You should seriously stop to put words in my (and other posters) mouth. But who was the biggest adversery after the 1990s for the US. The US has a hegemony today. It could have been the Sovietunion if they emerged as victorious from the Cold War and the US would have retreated to a new isoliationism. And we would be now talking about the Soviet hegemony and imperialism. But it didn't. The US is the big player today.

And the US is not better or worse than any other Super Power when it comes to foreign affairs. That's the point. The point isn't to discuss every and all interventions. The point is to make clear that the US has started many interventions which have lead to unecessary violence, conflicts and deaths. That most of the US population can't make a conection between US foreign policy and violence aimed at the US - we are the god guys! Why do they hate us? And this is actually not a new thing, when you consider politicans like Wayne Morse who already critised internventions in places like Vietnam.



I have no doubt that in 200 or 300 years historians will eventually look back at the US in a way how we today look at the Roman Empire or the British Empire and the colonialism. When enough time has passed where the actions today don't directly effect anyone and when they look closely at the actions and effects of political decisions.

Every empire, no matter if a democracy, kingdom, or dictatorship had pawns, satelite states, allies and adverseries. And the US has those as well.


I mean, the UK, France and the US have been getting along fine
hmhmm you might want to think about it in the light of the war in Iraq under George Bush. I would not say that Europe and the US are always that close to each other. But it's a complicated topic.

BTW, IMO, NATO exists because Russia and China refuse to play ball. NATO simply doesn't buy into the idea that we can trust Russia or the CPC if we essentially disband a strong and quite helpful alliance. They can bitch all they want but at the end of the day, they can make NATO irrelevant.

Did you totally ignore what I said about who would end up replacing the U.S. as the world police man? But oh yea, as long the big bad U.S. boogeyman is gone, here comes the utopia.

I never said that. I never said that anyone has to replace the US. Or that anyone should play "world police". Albeit the others, China and Russia or if you want Europe could not really do a better job here anyway.

You know you very much remind me to people like Kissinger or Curtis E. LeMay.
 
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But what about YOU personally? That was the question. How has any of this stuff effected YOU personally. Did you loose a great-grandpa/great-grandma in the WWII bombing? That's all I was asking.
Nope, my grandparents suffered much more during Russian occupation than American bombing.

There's just a lot of unnecessary hate coming out of Europe right now. No, the US isn't perfect, but what nation is? (..) You could pull up dirt on any nation in the world with a ten second Google search. Lots of it, too.
You acknowledge that there's a lot of wrong shit in every country, yet anyone pointing that out become a hater according to you. That doesn't make sense, man! When you praise the good thing and criticise the wrong, that makes you a realist IMO, not a hater. You can't make your country any better by putting rose-tinted glasses on, that simply doesn't work.
 
It may sound like a copout but I wouldn't mind. I, like you, believe that allies even spy on eachother. But the nature of it is different. I would never and have not had the experience that as part of NATO, we would harm one another. If Gladio did carry out false flag operations, I am sure the truth would have been discovered by this time.

The submarine incidents are just as bad as us spying on the germans. The NSA is is understandably getting lambasted for these breaches of etiquette, but is it serious enough to ruin NATO?

We keep going in circles because I agree that the U.S. has pulled some questionable and useless stunts. There were operations that can be argued that were not very useful, much like the second invasion of Iraq as the reasons were flat out wrong. But there are also operations that not only benefitted the U.S. but also our allies.

Saddam was a brutal ally against the Iranians but the blame can also fall squarely on Khomeini as well. The embassy hostages, the bombings, hezbollah and hamas, Iran plays the game as well. I agree with you that innocents are hurt as the higher ups rarely feel the results of their actions but its a sad truth.

As I have stated above, there will always be a kind of global pecking order. This won't change for the foreseeable future until we reach my said technological/scientific singularity. So call it pawns or kingdoms, what you will.

I, repeat, I, have said there will ALWAYS be a hegemon. If not America then Russia or China. I don't think the EU has the desire nor the finances for such a ambitious project. Either way, I think it will be a lot worse if Russia or China takes up the position. Regardless of spying or not, NATO works with eachother. One cannot say the same for Russia or China. They routinely only intervene when situations benefit only them wheras NATO atleast has common goals. As I have stated, that is 3 out of the 5 permanent security council. A pretty good accomplishment.

Lastly, I am not a psycho like LeMay. I do not advocate a Bethesday like attitude in deploying nuclear weapons gleefully. Being an American am I for a stronger America and by extension, the UK and France and Germany? Yes.
 
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Well I am not saying that you're a psycho. Just some of your arguments remind me to LeMay, that can be considered a compliment on a Fallout website, depending on how you look at it :look:. Anyway, that you're calling him a psycho makes you a reasonable person.
 
LeMay, Kissinger, and the Morse youtube video. Trifecta! Dude, you've hit your weekly quota of redundant talking points in one post! Slow down or you're going to exhaust yourself.
 
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