Fall Out Boy
Unbeliever
Thought you said you didn't want to argue, yet you go about insulting people... LQ user is LQ user.
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Is there nobody who enjoys both?!
- Thread starter Fall Out Boy
- Start date
Thought you said you didn't want to argue, yet you go about insulting people... LQ user is LQ user.
I half attempted this with Fallout 1, and pretty much drew a blank.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Probably because like with most beth fans, you haven't actually played it.
frajaq
It Wandered In From the Wastes
That and also it's not a very fun game
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Git gud.
Yeah, fuck that 18 year old game for not adding weapons that help you blow enemy heads with coffee mugs and teddy bears.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Yeah... No. My first game in the series was Fallout 2 which I picked up more-or-less on release via a mail-order company, followed by F1 a week or so later. F2 I can name and describe 30-40 characters in the manner asked. F1... Lots of caricatures and stereotype NPC's, but not much depth. F3 isn't any better, but its not much worse either.
Avallach
Ayreonaut
Sure, why not. Fallout 3 was okay for what it was, I guess. It got better when modded.
Although, I am currently in the middle of a Fallout marathon and I must say that I enjoyed Fallout 2 the most when comparing my gaming experience side by side. With New Vegas coming close.
Although, I am currently in the middle of a Fallout marathon and I must say that I enjoyed Fallout 2 the most when comparing my gaming experience side by side. With New Vegas coming close.
Beaushizzle
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
U rong, m8.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Fallout 1 did have several stereotypes... but Fallout 2 has the best characters in the end.
Vault19
Banned
Here's a challenge for the Fallout 3 fans, posted earlier in the thread - the Plinkett Character Challenge. Describe the character by their personality and how it affects those around them, without naming their explicit role in the story or what they do/look like. If you can name them then obviously the description was accurate enough to apply to that single character.
FO1:
This character is impatient and overly aggressive, probably as a cover for Short Man Syndrome. He puts up a mask of bravado, but when it comes down to the reality of the situation, he exposes himself as afraid and unsure of himself. A businessman at heart, he has a low tolerance of tangents and distractions and prefers to get to the meat of the issue. His chosen field of action also implies a sense of ruthlessness and tact, which help him succeed in his endeavors. Abrasive and rude, it is easy to see why this character is a leader - no nonsense and an eye on the prize lead to success.
FO2:
This character is pensive and wise, carried through many years of experience. Previously headstrong and idealistic in his younger days, he has since mellowed out and is content to judge every situation by the basis of the facts. He has developed a sense of fairness and justice which leads him to believe in the moral equality of all sapient beings, and chooses to appraise a person by the content of their character, instead of the condition of their skin. While he seeks to be helpful and kind, that does not mean he is a pushover - instead, he is a character willing to act on his convictions once made.
FNV:
A tormented soul. This character is haunted by survivor's guilt and self-loathing, though he has never stopped believing that he did the best he could under the circumstances. He tries to remain distant to the people he knows, for fear of losing them and having to suffer the same sense of loss that currently plagues him. He internally desires closure, but does not seek it, prefering instead to be numb to the pain and soldier on. Slow to warm to the company of anyone, he exposes himself as a steadfast and loyal companion with a sense of duty and obligation to those who infiltrate his defenses.
___________________________________
Could you do that to very many characters in Fallout 3? I'm not so bored to do it, but believe me, I could do that for a dozen more characters, for each game.
The problem with Fallout 3 was that characterization of this type rarely exists. Beth instead chooses the placeholder route - almost every character you come across is "Good/bad guy who exists to advance the plot" or "Good/bad guy who is good/bad for no reason, with no backstory". The only exceptions I can think of and remember would be the (agonizingly annoying) Moira Brown, and the Doctor who engineered the fire ants (though what his motivation and history was, I don't know.)
What Fallout 3 doesn't do is give humanity to the characters. They exist so the Lone Wanderer has things to do, not because they are people with history and emotions and qualities. Some are mad, sad, angry about a current situation that the Wanderer needs to solve, but what about them as a character? Nothing. Zip. Nada. This is where Fallout 3 fails, and, being Beth, Fallout 4 will likely fail as well.
It's like a film. You can have the coolest, most intense story on the face of the earth, but if you have characters that are boring, uninteresting, hated, then your story means shit. No one cares unless they care about the people, and in Fallout 3 there were very, very few "people".
FO1:
This character is impatient and overly aggressive, probably as a cover for Short Man Syndrome. He puts up a mask of bravado, but when it comes down to the reality of the situation, he exposes himself as afraid and unsure of himself. A businessman at heart, he has a low tolerance of tangents and distractions and prefers to get to the meat of the issue. His chosen field of action also implies a sense of ruthlessness and tact, which help him succeed in his endeavors. Abrasive and rude, it is easy to see why this character is a leader - no nonsense and an eye on the prize lead to success.
FO2:
This character is pensive and wise, carried through many years of experience. Previously headstrong and idealistic in his younger days, he has since mellowed out and is content to judge every situation by the basis of the facts. He has developed a sense of fairness and justice which leads him to believe in the moral equality of all sapient beings, and chooses to appraise a person by the content of their character, instead of the condition of their skin. While he seeks to be helpful and kind, that does not mean he is a pushover - instead, he is a character willing to act on his convictions once made.
FNV:
A tormented soul. This character is haunted by survivor's guilt and self-loathing, though he has never stopped believing that he did the best he could under the circumstances. He tries to remain distant to the people he knows, for fear of losing them and having to suffer the same sense of loss that currently plagues him. He internally desires closure, but does not seek it, prefering instead to be numb to the pain and soldier on. Slow to warm to the company of anyone, he exposes himself as a steadfast and loyal companion with a sense of duty and obligation to those who infiltrate his defenses.
___________________________________
Could you do that to very many characters in Fallout 3? I'm not so bored to do it, but believe me, I could do that for a dozen more characters, for each game.
The problem with Fallout 3 was that characterization of this type rarely exists. Beth instead chooses the placeholder route - almost every character you come across is "Good/bad guy who exists to advance the plot" or "Good/bad guy who is good/bad for no reason, with no backstory". The only exceptions I can think of and remember would be the (agonizingly annoying) Moira Brown, and the Doctor who engineered the fire ants (though what his motivation and history was, I don't know.)
What Fallout 3 doesn't do is give humanity to the characters. They exist so the Lone Wanderer has things to do, not because they are people with history and emotions and qualities. Some are mad, sad, angry about a current situation that the Wanderer needs to solve, but what about them as a character? Nothing. Zip. Nada. This is where Fallout 3 fails, and, being Beth, Fallout 4 will likely fail as well.
It's like a film. You can have the coolest, most intense story on the face of the earth, but if you have characters that are boring, uninteresting, hated, then your story means shit. No one cares unless they care about the people, and in Fallout 3 there were very, very few "people".
MessedUpPro
First time out of the vault
Yeah man, I enjoy both as well. Super excited for Fallout 4, but I also bought the Anthology for FO1, FO2, and Tactics, on disc. It's very strange that this forum is split so much. I feel almost unwelcome here, because I don't hate Bethesda. I generally check in every once and a while to find some positivity, but I never seem to find any. It's either idiots coming here to spout crap about how Todd Howard is god, or it's the elitists that yell about how Fallout 4 is made for casuals, and it's fans are retarded. It's good to see someone else here that can appreciate both eras of Fallout for what they are.
I generally check in every once and a while to find some positivity, but I never seem to find any. It's either idiots coming here to spout crap about how Todd Howard is god, or it's the elitists that yell about how Fallout 4 is made for casuals, and it's fans are retarded.[/QUOTE]
Speaking for myself I wouldn't go so far as calling Fallout 3 fans retarded. I don't hate them for liking Fallout 3, heck you like senselessly gunning people/animals/mutants in a world that's black and white with no gray, then knock yourself out, but I DO hate them for having very low expectations and not wanting/demanding more from Bethesda such as better main story, no bland characters, better AI and overall quality.
Speaking for myself I wouldn't go so far as calling Fallout 3 fans retarded. I don't hate them for liking Fallout 3, heck you like senselessly gunning people/animals/mutants in a world that's black and white with no gray, then knock yourself out, but I DO hate them for having very low expectations and not wanting/demanding more from Bethesda such as better main story, no bland characters, better AI and overall quality.
PossibleCabbage
Vault 22 Survivor
I think the thing is that "made for casuals" is that Bethesda invests a ton of effort in their games towards empowering the player. They are power fantasies in a literal sense because they are stories intended to make you feel powerful or important. A lot of video games are like this, because this sort of thing is extremely popular as people like to feel powerful. The issue is though that at some point people become aware of how games intend to manipulate them into feeling various things and often start to resent this sort of emotional manipulation. As a result, I generally prefer games that make me think about something to games that attempt to make me feel powerful.
I'm not sure if the industry is ever going to "grow up" as a whole and start telling stories that aren't about how awesome the protagonist is, or at least figure out how to complicate those stories in an interesting way, but I don't think "I like that" is bad just like I don't think "I don't like that" is bad. The worst things that Bethesda are guilty of really is making games I don't like very much and also making a Fallout game that doesn't do justice to 1&2 (and let's be honest, of the 7 released video game with "Fallout" in the title, 4/7 don't do justice to 1&2).
I just dislike that there's so much binary thinking in the realm of games where a game can only be good or bad, and admitting a good game has faults is to admit its bad and admitting a bad game has good parts is to admit that it's good. For the most part, what we talk about when we discuss games is simply what we (dis)like, so there's no reason to get too worked up about people whose opinions differ from yours. Honestly the reason I registered an NMA account to begin with (I had lurked on and off for years) was to go somewhere I could discuss Fallout 4 where I wouldn't get dogpiled for being somewhat critical of Fallout 4.
I'm not sure if the industry is ever going to "grow up" as a whole and start telling stories that aren't about how awesome the protagonist is, or at least figure out how to complicate those stories in an interesting way, but I don't think "I like that" is bad just like I don't think "I don't like that" is bad. The worst things that Bethesda are guilty of really is making games I don't like very much and also making a Fallout game that doesn't do justice to 1&2 (and let's be honest, of the 7 released video game with "Fallout" in the title, 4/7 don't do justice to 1&2).
I just dislike that there's so much binary thinking in the realm of games where a game can only be good or bad, and admitting a good game has faults is to admit its bad and admitting a bad game has good parts is to admit that it's good. For the most part, what we talk about when we discuss games is simply what we (dis)like, so there's no reason to get too worked up about people whose opinions differ from yours. Honestly the reason I registered an NMA account to begin with (I had lurked on and off for years) was to go somewhere I could discuss Fallout 4 where I wouldn't get dogpiled for being somewhat critical of Fallout 4.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
On one side we have RPG fans who have played some of the best classics, all with great writing and fantastic stories. Then we have the new generation which have played only Bethesda games and form their fans.
MessedUpPro
First time out of the vault
The thing about the "made for casuals" argument is that the people who say it have no idea what that word means. My girlfriend is a casual gamer. She enjoys The Sims and games like that. She enjoyed Fallout Shelter. She would not enjoy Fallout 3, New Vegas, or Fallout 4. As far as the gameplay goes, I mean. The reason is because it's too active. It's too complex for the relaxed experiences she enjoys. I'm sure she'd love the story, especially in New Vegas, but the gameplay is too intense for her. Casuals =/= the masses. Casuals = people who play games casually. Just because Fallout 3 and 4 seem to be made to be as accessible as possible, does not mean it's made for casuals.
It seems that only the most hardcore fans of the original games are the ones that cannot enjoy Fallout 3. Most critics, most players, agree that it's a fun game. It's only the people that are overly dedicated to the originals that hate it. I can see that Fallout 3 is not the best game ever made. I can see that New Vegas is far better. My playtime in both games shows this. However, I enjoyed Fallout 3. I had fun. I'm excited for Fallout 4. I got it on pre-order. I'm open to new experiences, where as the hardcore fans of the originals were initially pissed because it was no longer isometric and turn-based. Once New Vegas came out, that tune changed very fast, though.
It seems that only the most hardcore fans of the original games are the ones that cannot enjoy Fallout 3. Most critics, most players, agree that it's a fun game. It's only the people that are overly dedicated to the originals that hate it. I can see that Fallout 3 is not the best game ever made. I can see that New Vegas is far better. My playtime in both games shows this. However, I enjoyed Fallout 3. I had fun. I'm excited for Fallout 4. I got it on pre-order. I'm open to new experiences, where as the hardcore fans of the originals were initially pissed because it was no longer isometric and turn-based. Once New Vegas came out, that tune changed very fast, though.
Fall Out Boy
Unbeliever
Well put. What do you, personally, think of the originals, in comparison to the Bethesda titles?
MessedUpPro
First time out of the vault
Compared to Bethesda's titles? Well, they have officially only developed one title that I have played, but the atmosphere and the characters were done far better in Fallout 1. It's a fantastic game with great roleplaying options and paths. One of the things I appreciate the most in the originals and New Vegas are the endless ways you can complete quests. Talking The Master into killing himself, or collecting evidence on Benny and using it against him, all around great options. Makes for good replay value, whereas Fallout 3 can be played two or three times, and you'll have seen all there is to see.