J.E. Sawyer on the Legion and post-endgame play

[Izual]

Sorry, but if you think the following pictures are all the same, marketing did its job on you, no offence.

As I said, Fallout New Vegas might be a great game, but its simply not the Fallout we enjoyed back in 1998. The same way Daggerfall isn't Skyrim.

 

[TorontoReign]

Sorry, but if you think the following pictures are all the same, marketing did its job on you, no offence.

As I said, Fallout New Vegas might be a great game, but its simply not the Fallout we enjoyed back in 1998. The same way Daggerfall isn't Skyrim.

So Fallout has to look like a 1998 game to stay Fallout? Just going off of a picture like that seems absurd, but I catch your drift. I don't think marketing has anything to do with it.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Thing also is as many people have mentioned in other topics, how long can you keep the world a wasteland until new civilizations start to emerge.

Don't go always forward with the timeline and move to some other portion of the US or the world. Easy peasy.

Well I mentioned that myself.
Personally I don't think it would be a problem but the people standing in the way are Bethesda Zenimax who apparently have the idea that every Fallout game needs to take place after another.

In an interview the Obsidian guys mentioned that they wanted to have FNV take place before Fallout 3, I think just some years after Fallout 2.

I apologize if I keep repeating myself but I honestly fear that Bethesda Zenimax people think Fallout should be some kind of grimdark setting, perpetually stuck in a world just after a nuclear apocalypse.


Izual, you shouldn't be so obsessed about graphics.
A Fallout game also depends on content and gameplay and creating a strong atmosphere for role playing.

Personally I would have put FNV between FO2 and Van Buren as a sort of spin off (showing how the NCR colonized the Mojave and its first war with the Legion) but it honestly does not clash with the setting as much as FO3 did.

 

[plaidchuck]

I think some folks have the nostalgia glasses on. Remember, even in Fallout you could beat it in 10 minutes with nothing but the CoC robes.

Also if you have the setting in another part of the world, how are you going to account for the 50s americana look of the game? Or did the entire world have the same culture?

 

[Izual]

A Fallout game also depends on content and gameplay and creating a strong atmosphere for role playing.

It's not all about graphics.
Gameplay ? New Vegas isn't even turn-based.
Content ? It introduces totally new super-factions (Legion), it's not in the same geographical area, ...
Atmosphere ? Fallout 1/2 don't have same ambiance and atmosphere at all. It wasn't a better one, but it was a different one.

Fallout 1/2 and the later games are overall not the same at all - not saying they're bad, but they're obviously totally different.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Ah you are one of those fans who feels all Fallout games should keep taking place in the same region over and over.

I have had that discussion with people before and while I do like to hear what has happened to places we visited in previous games I honestly don't think Fallout is limited to one geographical area only.

North America is a big continent and there are loads of places that like California also have stories to tell and interesting people to meet.

Why stick to the grounds we have already treaded?

Best comparison I can come up with is the Ultima games where the campaigns often took place in Sosaria/Brittania and while it does create a consistent setting I do not feel that should be the case with Fallout.


And what is the problem with the Legion?
Sure their execution wasn't completely well worked out but I think it created some nice contrasts to the groups and governments in the West.

Not all rebuilding needs to be inspired by the American culture from before the War.

Okay they appeared completely out of nowhere but the same sort of applies to the Super Mutants and the Enclave and how the Legion was created was explained.
They weren't created in just one day but something that developed over the years, we just did not see it in the games like we did with the NCR.

 

[Surf Solar]

I dont think Izual especially meant the same region, its more the "tone" that feels completely different. To me, this Legion stuff etc. doesn't feel "Fallout" at all (starting even by the visual design and their behaviour), I guess Izual sits in a similar bandwagon.

 

[Lexx]

Nope, he clearly wrote "it's not in the same geographical area, ... " which means terrain and not "tone."

 

[Izual]

About ambiance and atmosphere...

 

[Sub-Human]

To me, this Legion stuff etc. doesn't feel "Fallout" at all (starting even by the visual design and their behaviour), I guess Izual sits in a similar bandwagon.

I agree with you here completely. The NCR is more appealing, but I think they got too much coverage in New Vegas and they need more than just one enemy to keep some sort of smaller equlibrium.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

To me, this Legion stuff etc. doesn't feel "Fallout" at all (starting even by the visual design and their behaviour), I guess Izual sits in a similar bandwagon.

I agree with you here completely. The NCR is more appealing, but I think they got too much coverage in New Vegas and they need more than just one enemy to keep some sort of smaller equlibrium.

Tastes differ, I do like the Legion and I can accept the in game explanation of how they were founded, introducing 'alien' ideas to tribals who never heard of these kind of concepts before.

What I will say is that the Legion should not be a start of dozens of factions and organizations styled after historical groups and empires like some people in the Fallout fanon wiki seem to do.

Does it mean I think the Legion should be back in full force in a sequel to FNV?
No, I think this was the Legion on its most powerful and with the possible deaths of Caesar and Lanius the Legion is fracturing apart.

Like Marcus and other ingame NPC bring up throughout the game, does the Legion follow Caesar's ideas or the man?

 

[The_Noob]

The soldiers serve Caesar the Man; Lanius serves Caesar the Dream.

Caesar represents the idea that the world can be brought back to its former glory by pursuing a new glory; that for humanity to flourish once more, that all who resist must be trampled.

That a good answer?

 

[Izual]

Yes. Too bad it looks like a poor version of Fallout 1's plot, though.

 

[The_Noob]

History is bound to repeat.

Caesar is the Master; Lanius the Lieutenant; and Vulpes is Morpheus, all in different forms. Not literally, but in spirit.

 

[Lexx]

I think your "what Fallout should be"-bars are just set unreasonable and unreachable high.

 

[Walpknut]

A Fallout game also depends on content and gameplay and creating a strong atmosphere for role playing.

It's not all about graphics.
Gameplay ? New Vegas isn't even turn-based.
Content ? It introduces totally new super-factions (Legion), it's not in the same geographical area, ...
Atmosphere ? Fallout 1/2 don't have same ambiance and atmosphere at all. It wasn't a better one, but it was a different one.

Fallout 1/2 and the later games are overall not the same at all - not saying they're bad, but they're obviously totally different.

Yes. Too bad it looks like a poor version of Fallout 1's plot, though.

Make up your mind.

 

[Crni Vuk]

all I would have liked to see is a Legion that didnt feelt so "evil". They should have been more like the NCR in that part with much more diversity inside the Legion.

Then Vegas would have been perfect in my eyes.

 

[The_Noob]

Actually, the people of Nipton were portrayed as scum who let the Powder Gangers step all over them.

What the Legion did was justice.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

all I would have liked to see is a Legion that didnt feelt so "evil". They should have been more like the NCR in that part with much more diversity inside the Legion.

Then Vegas would have been perfect in my eyes.

I think that was one of the big problems with the Legion as it appears now in Fallout New Vegas, they are just to stereotypical evil.

If the designers had the time they could perhaps have expanded more upon the 'civilians' who lived under Caesar's rule, trying to show why the Legion would be an alternative choice to the NCR in trying to build a new civilization in the wasteland.

Right now even despite how corrupt the NCR is in some parts it still makes a better choice over the Legion.

 

[Izual]

Make up your mind.

GTA 1 and GTA 4 are totally different. However one is a poor version of the other.

I think your "what Fallout should be"-bars are just set unreasonable and unreachable high.

Fallout should give me the same experience as the 1997-8 Fallout games did. If it can't, then don't call it Fallout.