NCR, Enclave, FEV Curling-13 (and mutants)

Walpknut said:
The Enclave plan involves whipping everything that si not them form existence, efectively reducing the amount of living humans to a very small number, genetic disseases, an epidemy of any virus, natural disasters, + small population = doom.
No prejudice? Well I guess there would be no prejudice in a world were everyone is aryan, hem i mean "Pure", a plan that involves killing FUCKING EVERYONE ELSE is never a good plan, the NCR has problems overstretching, but thats mostly because of their Bush-esque administration, that f you push the out of Vegas it would probably end. The ENclave is doomed to fail on any situation.
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You asked why I said I thought that they might be better suited to the task. Yeah, huge risks involved; but a huge payoff, in my opinion, too. The killing everyone else in existance isn't really a problem with the plan is it?

Pure does not mean Aryan, that's something which a lot of the people who have only played F3 say on the Bethesda Forums; it wasn't the primary reason for the Project. Where did the term "Pure Human" even come from? Richardson and Curling never even said the word "pure" at all; besides it doesn't mean that they have the best genes, Richardson openly admits that, it means that there is 100% certainty that they have not been affected by radiation in any adverse way unlike EVERYTHING ON THE MAINLAND.

We try to keep ourselves safe and secure from radiation. That's what separates humans - like me - from mutants like you.

And we know that exposure to radiation can cause similar symptoms to those in Vault City. It's less that the Enclave think themselves superior, more that the mainlanders are inferior, if you see what I mean.

I really don't see that the Enclave are doomed to fail; if they had done something better with the Vaults (the only part of them I agree was fucking stupid) then they're chances of success would improve greatly. The Enclave have great medical facilities, any pandemic I'm sure could be dealt with, the ENCLAVE itself after all is a perfectly secure and sealed environment; the Enclave are good at quarintine. And an asteroid or natural disaster? Well those could happen anyway, regardless of the Project or not; the ENCLAVE has weathered perfectly fine against the ocean and would have probably be the Capital for quite some time.
 
I am not sying they are aryan, I was indulging in hiperbole.
They say the mainlanders are inferior, therefore they think they are superior to them, and they want to destroy them without trying to actualy work something out. The Enclave are a small comunity that keeps to themselves and don't accept anythign from the outside, shunning everyone, thats not a good plan, thats a terrible plan, that is a one way ticket to inbred ville. In the long run they woudl devellop into the BoS. A epidemy and natural disaster can happen to the NCR too, the hting is they are more numerous, they don't actively seek to destroy any other community and their expansion plan doesn't involve releasing a mutants virus that kill everyone that was not vaccined againts the first strand.
 
Walpknut said:
I am not sying they are aryan, I was indulging in hiperbole.
They say the mainlanders are inferior, therefore they think they are superior to them, and they want to destroy them without trying to actualy work something out. The Enclave are a small comunity that keeps to themselves and don't accept anythign from the outside, shunning everyone, thats not a good plan, thats a terrible plan, that is a one way ticket to inbred ville. In the long run they woudl devellop into the BoS. A epidemy and natural disaster can happen to the NCR too, the hting is they are more numerous, they don't actively seek to destroy any other community and their expansion plan doesn't involve releasing a mutants virus that kill everyone that was not vaccined againts the first strand.
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I know, I've just heard it so damn much I switch to a defensive mode. From reading and real-life instances, mis-infomation (whether deliberate or not) and denying people a comparison (coupled with unquestioning loyalty) are what keeps strict regimes stable. The Enclave's isolationism is key to it's continued existance; if there's no national unity and such, if people on the ENCLAVE realise what vapid lives they lead, the might just desert; like Meyers and Henry.

In relation to the inbreeding which everyone seems to tote about, the Enclave's numbers can surely have only increased since 2077. Maybe, incase of emergencies, they have a huge sample collection and use artificial insemination, like Vault City (another consequance of radiation I might add).

I just think from a social and logistical standpoint that the Enclave is better geared towards long-term survival; with liberty slowly been reintroduced as they distance themselves from the ENCLAVE and indeed the need for it becomes increasingly obselete. In the end, I believe that the Enclave would produce the best human race in the extreme long run; the Enclave, as it currently is, only exists from necessatity and would soon become obselete after they had won.
 
Their number may have risen, the problem is genetic variety, Everyone will be directly related by blood, wich wouldn't be bad if they allowed other comunities to interact with them, but they don't, most Vault dwellers are either completely batshit insane, already dead be it by the experiments or by the mutant vir they use to clean everything.
 
Walpknut said:
Their number may have risen, the problem is genetic variety, Everyone will be directly related by blood, wich wouldn't be bad if they allowed other comunities to interact with them, but they don't, most Vault dwellers are either completely batshit insane, already dead be it by the experiments or by the mutant vir they use to clean everything.
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Yeah that is a shame, I really don't agree on the Enclave's Vault Policy. Really though, before F3 the experiments weren't as bad as some make out; aside from 12 (which obviously was bad) what did we have in Fallout 2?

8 - Control Vault.
13 - Not to open.
15 - Mixed Ideologies.

Some more that Richardson says are,

Fewer Food Synthesisers.
All occupants are male.
Open after six months.

It's when the humour and Bethesda (who are certainly not humourous, intentionally anyway) took over when the Vaults started to became wacky and less like social experiments. Hardly the stuff we see at fucking 87 or 92.
 
The NCR are dead in the water. Most likely they will callaspe politicallly if vegas goes independent, and will be conquered if ceasar takes the last barrier to the west leaving only one ending were they most likely survive in the long term. Even if somehow they manage not to be conquered by ceasar or callaspe from within they still will be conqered when when the real contenders return from the east.

Whoever whens in the east cost will control all of america You have the remnants of the mutant armies, two factions of the brotherhood of steel, and the enclave. Who ever wins will have the resources to return west and lay west to anything in thier path, be it legion or NCR

Oh, and for anyone not familar with the barnaky ending.

The General driven by the memory of his wife and convinced by your words boldly steps into the chamber, his brain is removed once again and placed into a specially constructed container. Now the sole organic influence on the Calculator's super computer neural network he finds himself united with an enemy he had sworn to destroy, his only objective to restore order to the chaotic wastes and provide his beloved wife with the security he had promised so long ago. The new Calculator dedicates its existence to the rescuing of pure blood humanity from the brink of destruction. Order is established with the Brotherhood soldiers and Calculator robots enforcing new laws and spearheading the task of rebuilding and re-educating mankind. The first step is to comfort the battle weary region; combined groups of Brotherhood soldiers and robots are dispatched to patrol troubled areas. These forces are charged with the task of dealing the bandit lords a blow that will take then years to recover from.

Technology is slowly re-introduced into the land; irrigation systems are established bringing water to the barren soils for the first time in decades. New settlements spring up as trade routes become safe from attacks. Once again humanity begins to prosper, for the various mutates of the land their destiny is somewhat darker. All known genetic divergents are immediately rounded up into internment camps and registered. Those that comply are forced to endure harsh conditions in labor gulags where their unique abilities are exploited in tasks considered too dangerous or simply beneath pure blood humans. Humans who speak out against this new system are disciplined or silenced. Those mutants who choose to flee are ruthlessly hunted by gangs, these unfortunates are captured, killed, and displayed across the region as a gruesome reminder to all impure life forms that disobedience from lesser creatures will be met with uncompromising punishment. Small factions of humans defiant of the new Brotherhood dictatorship join their outcast cousins to form the Mutant Liberation Army, any creatures suspected of supporting this outlawed faction are quickly rounded up and interrogated by the General's handpicked inquisitors.

Many are never seen again but for every disappearance, for every public execution by the new regime another rebel joins the outlaw movement. Soon the Brotherhood finds itself under repeated attack, the Mutant Liberation Army attempts to utilize guerrilla tactics to offset the overwhelming combined force of robot and Brotherhood soldiers. The rebels fight for many reasons now; revenge, freedom, and a chance for a better life. Some join the battle because raging war is all they know. It is a struggle they are destined to lose. Soon, without the required resources and firepower the Mutant Liberation Army is driven west, back to an area where many of them met bitter defeat not long ago. Their actions becoming more and more desperate when they realize they are being driven back into a region controlled by the old Brotherhood. Humanity rules the land again while the mutates have nothing but death; it lies waiting over every hill, behind every rock, through every crosshair. They are without justice, they are without hope, such is life in the wasteland.
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They lost one territory they were trying to take a hold off, they still have the Whole of the Core region, like Oliver said the Claw of the bear stretches very far, The NCR are not gonna lose to The Legion if they are pushed out of Vegas in the independent ending, The legion is even more damaged by their lost in the Mojave, The NCR still has a shit load of territory, they are not just some party of marauders, you would know this if you payed attetion to the game. The BoS is losing the war with the NCR, they are dying rapidly, pay attention to Veronica's quest; the Enclave was already disoluted, I don't get why you keep insisting on the Enclave conquering everyone, they lost, they were destroyed, the survivors integrated into the NCR or other communities.
 
Hasn't fucking Broken Steel confirmed that the Enclave in the East were destroyed? At least as an organised force, as who could forget Lyon's vrilliant line afterwards which goes something like:

The Enclave still has many field outposts which may take months to find out, I would not be surpirsed if the Enclave returned to the Capital Wasteland again someday.

Not an exact quote but that is the gist, the field camps wouldn't become suspicious at the lack of a shift change at the end of the day (as the outpsots have no beds) and there are enough to keep the Enclave alive. Bethesda really needs to fucking learn to know when to close a book and not leave everything open.#

@The NCR have a massive empire, the Legion can boast stronger law enforcement all they want but their technological inferiorirt (which is apparently self-imposed by Caesar) can only hinder them against the NCR. The Legion cannot conquer all of the NCR and not collapse, then again, maybe Caesar intends to re--organise the entire Legion around the Vegas/California area (he does say he wants Vegas as his Rome).
 
Quagmire, can you show on the doll where the NCR touched you? Seriously, your hate of that faction is incomprehensible. " Most likely they will callaspe politicallly if vegas goes independent"? What the hell does that mean? They were thriving before finding the strip and Mr. House has, as the man himself said, all the reasons in the world to let them stay that way.
 
Though it is true that without Vegas the NCR will facesome serious issues as they mention somewhere that calculations show that they will have a shortage in food in the next 10 years or something like that. Now if there is something that really can destabilize your "empire" then it is a starving population.
 
Seriously, your hate of that faction is incomprehensible.
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Its probably me being annoyed at what a hard on a lot of people have for them. All I was trying to say is that their not saints. It just bugs me too that the NCR characters act so self righteous talking about "how the legion is bad for women" and "their bad people". The one good thing about the legion is bitch less then the rest of the people. Cassidy in particular.

The Enclave still has many field outposts which may take months to find out, I would not be surprised if the Enclave returned to the Capital Wasteland again someday.
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I also remember: "Will they return? I don't know but with their resources I could see them return in say ten years"
Sounds like their still around.

(which is apparently self-imposed by Caesar)
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Caesar only said he did not want robots to replace soldiers, as I remember the legion did try to obtain energy weapons
 
The NCR is essentially the United States government, with the same advantages and shortcomings. The way they view Caesar's Legion is the same way that the real US government views the Middle Eastern nations today. I felt like this was a pretty realistic depiction of a post-apocalyptic republic.
 
Courier said:
The NCR is essentially the United States government, with the same advantages and shortcomings. The way they view Caesar's Legion is the same way that the real US government views the Middle Eastern nations today. I felt like this was a pretty realistic depiction of a post-apocalyptic republic.
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Of course the game being released by an american company leads immediatly to this conclusion and first I had this impression too, but after lots of playthroughs I'm not entirelly sure of this.
The NCR basically represents democracy, not the US.

I think the Middle Eastern nations are not related to Caesar's Legion either, since Mr. House falls more on the role of the various middle east autocracies than the Legion.

The Legion is the USSR, if we want to make countries analogies. :)

[ ]'s
 
The Legion is the USSR, if we want to make countries analogies.
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Really, I would've thought the NCR would be a better fit for that withe thier bear symbol, the NCR veteran ranger remind me of NKVD troops.
 
Quagmire69 said:
The Legion is the USSR, if we want to make countries analogies.
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Really, I would've thought the NCR would be a better fit for that withe thier bear symbol, the NCR veteran ranger remind me of NKVD troops.
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They have the bear symbol because thats the symbol of california today
 
They have the bear symbol because thats the symbol of california today
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I know, but it makes we wonder if they intended it to kind of subtle, a Bear hear, NKVD uniforms here. They really do remind me of the Red Army though. Waves of concripts with little training but with elite NKVD/KGB troops to steffin then and keep them in line. The way they overcome Navarro is realisticly how the Soviet were planning on conquering West Germany, wave upon wave of concripts tiriing out NATO troops, followed by the elite divisions to finish the job (i'm not trying to insult them, they just militarily remind of the Soviet Army, especially with thier emphisis on snipers).

I see new vegas much like the soviet afghan conflic. NCR are the soviets, average equiptment, undertrained army, kick ass elites brought in more out of desperation, the Legion are like the afghans, shitty equipment but with fanitical dedication, hostility towards women, backward spiritual beliefs, House is like the US hoping minipulate things with a high probability of it backfireing.
 
Quagmire69 said:
They have the bear symbol because thats the symbol of california today
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I know, but it makes we wonder if they intended it to kind of subtle, a Bear hear, NKVD uniforms here. They really do remind me of the Red Army though. Waves of concripts with little training but with elite NKVD/KGB troops to steffin then and keep them in line. The way they overcome Navarro is realisticly how the Soviet were planning on conquering West Germany, wave upon wave of concripts tiriing out NATO troops, followed by the elite divisions to finish the job (i'm not trying to insult them, they just militarily remind of the Soviet Army, especially with thier emphisis on snipers).

I see new vegas much like the soviet afghan conflic. NCR are the soviets, average equiptment, undertrained army, kick ass elites brought in more out of desperation, the Legion are like the afghans, shitty equipment but with fanitical dedication, hostility towards women, backward spiritual beliefs, House is like the US hoping minipulate things with a high probability of it backfireing.
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You don't think that your reading into what doesn't exist, we don't even know any details about how the NCR captured Navarro. The fact that it takes a Ranger to recognise the armour may suggest that it was primarily a ranger operation; hell if the think that the Legion are trouble imagine how brutal it would have been against a superior power.
 
You don't think that your reading into what doesn't exist, we don't even know any details about how the NCR captured Navarro. The fact that it takes a Ranger to recognise the armour may suggest that it was primarily a ranger operation; hell if the think that the Legion are trouble imagine how brutal it would have been against a superior power.
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I hereby apoligise for insulting the exalted Enclave great one. After I am the only one on this forum the reads into things... But seriously i'd thought you'd be more on my side since i'm one of the only people here who agrees with you that the Enclave are not psycotic murderers, even if I think they got a little wierd with it at certain points.
 
Quagmire69 said:
You don't think that your reading into what doesn't exist, we don't even know any details about how the NCR captured Navarro. The fact that it takes a Ranger to recognise the armour may suggest that it was primarily a ranger operation; hell if the think that the Legion are trouble imagine how brutal it would have been against a superior power.
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I hereby apoligise for insulting the exalted Enclave great one. After I am the only one on this forum the reads into things... But seriously i'd thought you'd be more on my side since i'm one of the only people here who agrees with you that the Enclave are not psycotic murderers, even if I think they got a little wierd with it at certain points.
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If I don't agree with something then I just don't; similarities to the Soviet Invasion of Afganistan? I cannot possibly imagine that any similarities were intentional, if they do indeed exist then I guess well done for spotting them; I know little of such matters so I am not going to say that you are incorrect.
 
Quagmire69 said:
They have the bear symbol because thats the symbol of california today
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I know, but it makes we wonder if they intended it to kind of subtle, a Bear hear, NKVD uniforms here. They really do remind me of the Red Army though. Waves of concripts with little training but with elite NKVD/KGB troops to steffin then and keep them in line. The way they overcome Navarro is realisticly how the Soviet were planning on conquering West Germany, wave upon wave of concripts tiriing out NATO troops, followed by the elite divisions to finish the job (i'm not trying to insult them, they just militarily remind of the Soviet Army, especially with thier emphisis on snipers).

I see new vegas much like the soviet afghan conflic. NCR are the soviets, average equiptment, undertrained army, kick ass elites brought in more out of desperation, the Legion are like the afghans, shitty equipment but with fanitical dedication, hostility towards women, backward spiritual beliefs, House is like the US hoping minipulate things with a high probability of it backfireing.
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How the hell is islam backwards spiritually? Just because they have different views dosen't mean they are backwards.
 
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