NCR, Enclave, FEV Curling-13 (and mutants)

[Quagmire69]

How the hell is islam backwards spiritually?

If you believe that women should have acid thrown in thier face for not wearing a viel or learning how to read then yes you are pretty backward. And I never said muslims, I was reffering to the fundementalist in Afghanistan whom are typicly seen as backword not only in the west but in the rest of the muslim world.

 

[White Knight]

How the hell is islam backwards spiritually?

If you believe that women should have acid thrown in thier face for not wearing a viel or learning how to read then yes you are pretty backward. And I never said muslims, I was reffering to the fundementalist in Afghanistan whom are typicly seen as backword not only in the west but in the rest of the muslim world.

Thats the enforcement thats extreme, other than that the quaran shares similar views with the bible, that women have a certain place in the family or in society. Both believe that the man should be the leader and do the work, while the woman does the housework and looks after the family. Besides its not like those women didn't know what they were getting into. Their society has rules and they broke them. Its not backwards, its just different. I don't agree with it, but I don't make it a habit of condeming people for their views.

 

[Dalex]

Thats the enforcement thats extreme, other than that the quaran shares similar views with the bible, that women have a certain place in the family or in society. Both believe that the man should be the leader and do the work, while the woman does the housework and looks after the family. Besides its not like those women didn't know what they were getting into. Their society has rules and they broke them. Its not backwards, its just different. I don't agree with it, but I don't make it a habit of condeming people for their views.

I'm sorry I just have to stop you here. You're saying that this kind of behaviour isn't backward?
I mean like WTF?
Ok I can clearly sea that you are one of those: There are no savage/backwards people only different cultures. So this isn't probably going anywhere.
But the main difference between Bible and Quran is that those who believe in Bible have evolved past some of what the Bible is saying but Muslims didn't.
Also please check this article, I know it's from wiki but atleast something.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science#Arrival_of_modern_science_in_Islamic_world

 

[Crni Vuk]

How the hell is islam backwards spiritually?

If you believe that women should have acid thrown in thier face for not wearing a viel or learning how to read then yes you are pretty backward. And I never said muslims, I was reffering to the fundementalist in Afghanistan whom are typicly seen as backword not only in the west but in the rest of the muslim world.

Before going in a discussion about the "Islam" I suggest you to take your time and educate your self probably about it.

 

[White Knight]

Thats the enforcement thats extreme, other than that the quaran shares similar views with the bible, that women have a certain place in the family or in society. Both believe that the man should be the leader and do the work, while the woman does the housework and looks after the family. Besides its not like those women didn't know what they were getting into. Their society has rules and they broke them. Its not backwards, its just different. I don't agree with it, but I don't make it a habit of condeming people for their views.

I'm sorry I just have to stop you here. You're saying that this kind of behaviour isn't backward?
I mean like WTF?
Ok I can clearly sea that you are one of those: There are no savage/backwards people only different cultures. So this isn't probably going anywhere.
But the main difference between Bible and Quran is that those who believe in Bible have evolved past some of what the Bible is saying but Muslims didn't.
Also please check this article, I know it's from wiki but atleast something.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science#Arrival_of_modern_science_in_Islamic_world

Muslim and Christians share very similar beliefs, sure some christians don't practice some of the bibles teachings, but I would'nt say all of them have stopped. Roman Catholics believe that women's place is in the home and family, while the mans is as the leader of the family, though they both are equal in rights. And no I don't believe there are any savages and backward cultures, bcause all Cultures have their flaws, and its impossible to say which one is better or more civillised. Those women who were punished broke laws set by their community or society. The punishment may not have been right, but I am from a different culture and I don't feel its my place to judge others on their views or how they interpret their religion. If it was for no apparent reason, then it is murder but they broke something they knew would bring severe consquences, and they had to deal with them.

 

[Quagmire69]

Muslim and Christians share very similar beliefs, sure some christians don't practice some of the bibles teachings, but I would'nt say all of them have stopped. Roman Catholics believe that women's place is in the home and family, while the mans is as the leader of the family, though they both are equal in rights. And no I don't believe there are any savages and backward cultures, bcause all Cultures have their flaws, and its impossible to say which one is better or more civillised. Those women who were punished broke laws set by their community or society. The punishment may not have been right, but I am from a different culture and I don't feel its my place to judge others on their views or how they interpret their religion. If it was for no apparent reason, then it is murder but they broke something they knew would bring severe consquences, and they had to deal with them.

Wow, and some people think I derail the discussion.

 

[Walpknut]

emmm yes you do, you keep trying to make yoru arguments seem more valid by going into tangents that you don't have that much knoledge about and you make anyone that reads your messages have the forum argument itch.

 

[Quagmire69]

knoledge

Don't you mean "knowledge". Next time before you criticize me for lack of info be sure to use spell check.

I find the NCR fan-club membership quite funny. How the hell do all the Master sympathizers both here and on the Besada forums end up supporting the NCR. This is a country based the Vault Dweller, a bigger villain than Richardson to muties. The NCR hate the muties possibly even more than the legion do. But no, you'll point to the fact that one of the ranger stations is composed of ghouls. Thats just because an entire regiment of elite troops would be fucking dangerous too take out and too useful not too have at the battle of hoover damn. But realistically after the dust settles each one of them will end up with a bullet in their head.

By the way I don't hate the NCR. I'm just sick and tired of people who have a ridiculous hard on for them and don't see that their just as Real Politic as everyone else. Which isn't a bad thing. If you want my criticism of NCR it would be similar to Caesars, that their weak. Humanity needs strength if it is to rise from the ashes. The one thing worse than a tyrant is a weak king. Frankly I don't care who takes up that role, Mead, House, Ceasar, Eden, Lyons, whoever, but someone has too.

It would be ashamed if humanity faltered now, after surviving a nuclear holocaust, the master, radiation, as well of an untold number of other horrors. What humanity needs is a firm ruler to unite the fractious bands of humanity, call them to him, establish order, hunt down all competing species(SM, Deathclaws, Ghouls, Swamp-folk), and lastly start too return humans to pre war numbers through agriculture and breeding. Though the Legion are a bunch of barbaric savages, I can't deny that they do these things quite well though I would prefer civilized men too do it.

 

[Dalex]

What humanity needs is a firm ruler to unite the fractious bands of humanity, call them to him, establish order, hunt down all competing species(SM, Deathclaws, Ghouls, Swamp-folk), and lastly start too return humans to pre war numbers through agriculture and breeding. Though the Legion are a bunch of barbaric savages, I can't deny that they do these things quite well though I would prefer civilized men too do it.

So basically what humanity need's is the God-Emperor!
BTW I think you'r right.

 

[Surf Solar]

What the fuck am I reading..

 

[Walpknut]

Oh spelling, thats a very good counter argument, considering you can't tell the difference between "They are" and "Their".
Your rgument is based on pure asumptions, "The NCR PROBABLY hates mutants more than the Legion", why? where do you get this asumptions? The tensions between NCR and Jacobstown in the Mojave are not because of pure racism, the Nightkins have been wreaking shit around the region and Mutants aren't saints to begin with, ever played the Caravan quests for the NCR in FO2? There is a very good reason to be afraid of this mutants, but you can solve everything peacefuly, the good ending for Jacobstown even states that they prospered and do trading.
In FO2 there are Mutants just outside of the NCR, and they don't have any problem with Marcus entering unlike Vault City.
"But no, you'll point to the fact that one of the ranger stations is composed of ghouls. Thats just because an entire regiment of elite troops would be fucking dangerous too take out and too useful not too have at the battle of hoover damn. But realistically after the dust settles each one of them will end up with a bullet in their head. "
Pure asumptions based on absolutely nothing, Nobody in the NCR even comments on Ghouls or the Ghoul problem, the only mention of this i in Searchlight but that place is filled with feral ghouls, and if you convince the guy stationed there that the sane Ghoul troper is not feral he will gladly allow him to rejoin the unit and help them, There is a Ghoul member of the OSI.
The NCR is suffering because of the bad administration of Kimball, but they are stronger than the BOS, The Enclave (because they no longer exist). The Deathclaws are animals, what porpouse would it serve to integrate them into other comunities? you afraid they starve? You seem to just hate the NCR fro hate sake, and it looks liek you didn't explored dialogue trees at all.
And you need to word yoru arguments properly, they just look like incohesive ramblings.

 

[Hassknecht]

knoledge

Don't you mean "knowledge". Next time before you criticize me for lack of info be sure to use spell check.

Dude. Of all the people on NMA you made a grammar-flame?
Oh, the irony...
Anyway, I really don't see how the NCR hates mutants. Yes, they want to kill the ghouls in Searchlight, but that's because they are feral and dangerous.
And super mutants?
Well, they didn't treat them well, but it's not like they want to erase them.

 

[White Knight]

Don't you mean "knowledge". Next time before you criticize me for lack of info be sure to use spell check.

He made a mistake, the rest of his argument is valid.

I find the NCR fan-club membership quite funny. How the hell do all the Master sympathizers both here and on the Besada forums end up supporting the NCR. This is a country based the Vault Dweller, a bigger villain than Richardson to muties. The NCR hate the muties possibly even more than the legion do. But no, you'll point to the fact that one of the ranger stations is composed of ghouls. Thats just because an entire regiment of elite troops would be fucking dangerous too take out and too useful not too have at the battle of hoover damn. But realistically after the dust settles each one of them will end up with a bullet in their head.

Well the Master tried to turn the rest of humanity into Mutants against their will. Once the Vault Dweller found out about this, he destroyed the master and his plan. The enclave set out with the view to kill the rest of humanity, mutated and normal. And please provide the evidence that the NCR will kill the ranger ghouls once the battle for hoover dam is over. Your just pulling things out of your ass. Did you ever stop to think how they became an elite unit? By serving in the Rangers, some of them long enough to get the black armour. That means the NCR has allowed them to serve them for quite some time. [/quote]

 

[Crni Vuk]

knoledge

I find the NCR fan-club membership quite funny. How the hell do all the Master sympathizers both here and on the Besada forums end up supporting the NCR...

Because it is pretty simple. From a realistic point of view. Knowing the way how Vegas shows the "factions" the NCR is the best way to go. Or to be more correct the "smallest" of the evil. It is not realistic to expect that either House or the Legion will work out for the people in the long run. The NCR has not to work really either. But at least they are the closest you can get to a "nation" in the form of a republic which works for the people usualy.

 

[The Enclave 86]

knoledge

I find the NCR fan-club membership quite funny. How the hell do all the Master sympathizers both here and on the Besada forums end up supporting the NCR...

Because it is pretty simple. From a realistic point of view. Knowing the way how Vegas shows the "factions" the NCR is the best way to go. Or to be more correct the "smallest" of the evil. It is not realistic to expect that either House or the Legion will work out for the people in the long run. The NCR has not to work really either. But at least they are the closest you can get to a "nation" in the form of a republic which works for the people usualy.

I really don't understand why House get's so much scor; people say he only cares about money but look at him, he cannot spend that money on himself, he isn't a corrupt dictator buying yatchs on the side, every decision he makes can only be to others benefit or detrement and I see no reason why House wouldn't build a decent future for the locals; after the NCR are gone he sweeps the scum from Freeside and the Fiends pretty quickly if I recall.

Then again I don't profess to be an expert on the man.

 

[brfritos]

knoledge

I find the NCR fan-club membership quite funny. How the hell do all the Master sympathizers both here and on the Besada forums end up supporting the NCR...

Because it is pretty simple. From a realistic point of view. Knowing the way how Vegas shows the "factions" the NCR is the best way to go. Or to be more correct the "smallest" of the evil. It is not realistic to expect that either House or the Legion will work out for the people in the long run. The NCR has not to work really either. But at least they are the closest you can get to a "nation" in the form of a republic which works for the people usualy.

I really don't understand why House get's so much scor; people say he only cares about money but look at him, he cannot spend that money on himself, he isn't a corrupt dictator buying yatchs on the side, every decision he makes can only be to others benefit or detrement and I see no reason why House wouldn't build a decent future for the locals; after the NCR are gone he sweeps the scum from Freeside and the Fiends pretty quickly if I recall.

Then again I don't profess to be an expert on the man.

House is an autocrat, wich means he's a dictator. Everyone that don't want to cope with him, he tells you to "deal with".
This suggests what?

Also, one of his projects is restarting the space development and simply get out of earth and those lefted behind are on their own, pretty much like he did with the people in Freeside.

I'm not one of the biggest fans of the NCR, since this is a game I can choose an utopian state and that's why I side with Yes Man, but House and Legion surelly don't leave too much hope for freedom and development of the region.
Security ok, but at what cost?

[ ]'s

 

[The Enclave 86]

House is an autocrat, wich means he's a dictator. Everyone that don't want to cope with him, he tells you to "deal with".

This suggests what?

Also, one of his projects is restarting the space development and simply get out of earth and those lefted behind are on their own, pretty much like he did with the people in Freeside.

I'm not one of the biggest fans of the NCR, since this is a game I can choose an utopian state and that's why I side with Yes Man, but House and Legion surelly don't leave too much hope for freedom and development of the region.
Security ok, but at what cost?

[ ]'s

You don't think that House can go with them do you? They guy is actually linked into his machine, the Cerebral Contoller or whatever it was called. So he builds a spaceship and sends people somewhere else... how does that make things worse for the people still on Earth? It's not like the Enclave's plan which comes at the detrement of everyone else; House pays people to do stuff, chooses his colonists and sends then sends them on their way.

The NCR have done similar things and House isn't exactly in the best position to be being the bearer of good will. The NCR are looking to assassinate him for no good reason other than they want the Strip, in House's endings he cleans up Freeside and destroys the Fiends.

 

[brfritos]

House is an autocrat, wich means he's a dictator. Everyone that don't want to cope with him, he tells you to "deal with".

This suggests what?

Also, one of his projects is restarting the space development and simply get out of earth and those lefted behind are on their own, pretty much like he did with the people in Freeside.

I'm not one of the biggest fans of the NCR, since this is a game I can choose an utopian state and that's why I side with Yes Man, but House and Legion surelly don't leave too much hope for freedom and development of the region.
Security ok, but at what cost?

[ ]'s

You don't think that House can go with them do you? They guy is actually linked into his machine, the Cerebral Contoller or whatever it was called. So he builds a spaceship and sends people somewhere else... how does that make things worse for the people still on Earth? It's not like the Enclave's plan which comes at the detrement of everyone else; House pays people to do stuff, chooses his colonists and sends then sends them on their way.

The NCR have done similar things and House isn't exactly in the best position to be being the bearer of good will. The NCR are looking to assassinate him for no good reason other than they want the Strip, in House's endings he cleans up Freeside and destroys the Fiends.

Wait a second, Col. Moore only gives you the order to assassinate House after the NCR discover that the Securitrons were upgraded and think he will make a move to destabilize the region.
Just remember that it's your own judgement that choose violence or peacifull negotiations when working for the NCR.

It's interesting that House and Caesar wants the Boomer support, but if they don't comply, they want you to kill them.
The NCR never gives you that order.

And what similar things the NCR done like House? The NCR is not a saint or saviours of the planet, it's an imperialist machine at work, but I'm thinking people are pushing too much.

[ ]'s

 

[Crni Vuk]

I really don't understand why House get's so much scor; people say he only cares about money but look at him, he cannot spend that money on himself, he isn't a corrupt dictator buying yatchs on the side, every decision he makes can only be to others benefit or detrement and I see no reason why House wouldn't build a decent future for the locals; after the NCR are gone he sweeps the scum from Freeside and the Fiends pretty quickly if I recall.

Then again I don't profess to be an expert on the man.

That's not the point. I am not calling House the next Hitler or something. But ask your self that. As a usual wasteland (NOT the courier). Would you think he is the best choice ?

House is the best example of great intentions. Poor execution. Like many other rulers before him ...

That's not the point. I am not calling House the next Hitler or something. But ask your self that. As a usual wasteland (NOT the courier). Would you think he is the best choice ?

House is the best example of great intentions. Poor execution. Like many other rulers before him

If he really cares about the people in the way as some explain(ed) it here. He would have made something different out of the strip then some kind of amusement park.

And what similar things the NCR done like House? The NCR is not a saint or saviours of the planet, it's an imperialist machine at work, but I'm thinking people are pushing too much.

[ ]'s

This. All of them. House. Legion and NCR proved very nicely that they WILL use force to push their ideas trough. But think about this. In a world of survival. Is that really something you can blame people for ? Not really. But the NCR is definitely one of the more tolerant factions (not always but hey no one called them a saint) they are often enough at least ready for negotiations and contracts. And le's be honest. No NCR. No Vegas. As the NCR is the backbone of the Vegas economy.

 

[The Enclave 86]

Wait a second, Col. Moore only gives you the order to assassinate House after the NCR discover that the Securitrons were upgraded and think he will make a move to destabilize the region. Just remember that it's your own judgement that choose violence or peacifull negotiations when working for the NCR.

Perhaps, as you might imagine I don't really like the NCR all that much :p. I really couldn't remember, though House seemed to be under the impression that they were always wanting to take Vegas from him; and the NCR citizens really like to whoop about his death after the fact.

And what similar things the NCR done like House? The NCR is not a saint or saviours of the planet, it's an imperialist machine at work, but I'm thinking people are pushing too much.

I didn't mean like House specifically, just pulling dick-maneuvers on some people for their own gain. Vault City for example, yeah they were bigotted or whatever, does that validate the NCR in sub-contracting the Bishop family to beat VC into NCR annexation? And only for medical tech and a northern territory, judging from Cass's "Vault City Pacsifists" comment I can only assume that they complied... Chrsit it has just struck me how Vault City just seems such a long way away, like I couldn't ever imagine in the Gamebryo engine I don't know just feeling nostalgic.

I agree that they may have tried to push the morally grey aspect on the NCR a bit to much by making them seem beaureacratic and inefficent compared to Caesar.

The point is though that the NCR acts like annexation is a blessing but their is little choice in the matter for those involved; even if in the end it is. You heard Kimball's speech about them bearing the torch of Old World jusice and freedom?