NCR, Enclave, FEV Curling-13 (and mutants)

Crni Vuk said:
The Enclave 86 said:
House is the best example of great intentions. Poor execution. Like many other rulers before him ...
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Well if you've read any of my other posts you know that I tend to look over the execution, often literally. Objectively I just want what I think will be best for humanity in the end, though I factor intent and such into my reasoning for the short term. The NCR really panit themselves to others as good but often offer little in the way of options when it comes to opposing them.

Other factions are a little more honest in their intentions.

By no means do I ever support House, but I don't think that he deserves some of the flak that often get's hurled at him.

"Despot Derp" isn't really enough of a reason for me to dislike something.
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yeah well. House isn't really honest. And the Legion is no real option for anyone else then the Legion. So what is left ? That is basically what I am asking. You are right about the NCR. But Vegas is not NCR territory. I am talking here from the inside of the NCR. I just have the feeling that once Vegas would be a part of it it would have the biggest potential for a more or less "good" ending here. Not in the next 10 years eventually. But give it one or two generations.


Well maybe if Obsidian would have managed to make the Legion or at least Caesar more "like able" ... things could be COMPLETELY different. But I always had a hard time to side with them. They are just so ... ridiculous. I mean how do people manage not to shoot a person when he says "Kaiser" :S
 
Crni Vuk said:
yeah well. House isn't really honest. And the Legion is no real option for anyone else then the Legion. So what is left ? That is basically what I am asking. You are right about the NCR. But Vegas is not NCR territory. I am talking here from the inside of the NCR. I just have the feeling that once Vegas would be a part of it it would have the biggest potential for a more or less "good" ending here. Not in the next 10 years eventually. But give it one or two generations.


Well maybe if Obsidian would have managed to make the Legion or at least Caesar more "like able" ... things could be COMPLETELY different. But I always had a hard time to side with them. They are just so ... ridiculous. I mean how do people manage not to shoot a person when he says "Kaiser" :S
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Well I never really side with House either, just because I think objectively doesn't mean I play like that :p, after I've fully finsihed breaking all of the NCR and Brotherhood's stuff and rallying every faction against them I unleash Caesar across the Dam hoping that the NCR will be utterally broken, or at least damaged.

Caesar can think of himself a God or whatever he likes, the only reason he doesn't die is because I want the Legion to keep hitting the NCR over and over and over again and I'm not sure how Lanius would fair in the long run.

I prefer to think of the Legion as as much of a pawn in my game as the lowly Powder Gangers, I would rather say the Fiends but because of the crimes that they commited to the people of Vault 3 I destroy every single one of those bastards, despite their damage to the NCR.
 
Pure asumptions based on absolutely nothing
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Their are more mutants pissed at the NCR than the Legion. Remember Markus tells you not to tell the muties if your with the NCR, in fact the only person you meet who likes the legion is a ghoul.

If were going to talk about conjecture what about the theory that the NCR knows about the FEV curling strain, even though not a single character in the NCR confirms it, nor in the Brotherhood. Does this really not make sense too you that the villagers kidnapped from ararro would want to forget their captivity and want to move on, as opposed too running too the NCR whom they have no reason too trust ? Most of them couldn't read so only Chosen one, Markus, and the Vault dweller would have much idea of what was going on, and remember for all we know the Chosen one could have been a den slaver with ranger squads gunning for him.

I on the other hand assume that the Ghoulified soldiers will at best be told to disappear given the reaction of the sergeant at camp searchlight upon hearing of his mutated soldier.

I prefer to think of the Legion as as much of a pawn in my game
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To what, make trouble for the NCR?
 
If the Chosen One can read, that means he was taught to read, therefore people in Arroyo (no Ararro) know how to read, it's kind of common sense. And how does tha Vault Dweller know about the Enclave when he is dead at teh begining of FO2?

The tensions between the NCR and the Mutants coems msotly from the mutants actions, it not liek they are all a bunch of innocent little flowers that just want to be accepted, most fo them don't just outright kill you because Marcus forbids it, Keene just rushes to steal the Stealthboy Mark II the moment he hears about it, unless you convince him to nto do it, or just smash his brain all over the wall. The NCR is mostly reacting to what the Mutants have been doing in the region and back west, attacking their caravans, doign things like Black Mountain.

The Legion says Mutants are evil demons, they don't actively pursue them because they are in no inmediate danger, they are not near Jacobstown or Black Mountain.

And again with pure speculation, Where is it implied that the NCR is gonna tell all of their Veteran Ghoul rangers to fuck off? The reaction fo the guy at searchlight may had somethign to do with the fact that every ghoul in searchlight was a feral ghoul? you can convince hi mthat the Trooper is sane and there is no danger, and you will see the guy strolling around with the rest of the unit.

lets wait for "dalex" to say "He has a point".
 
Have you ever palyed FO2? The NCR and the mutants are enemeis to each other, not because one is IBOLZ and the other innocent, they have been harrasing each other, but they are shwon to tolerate non violent Mutants, like Marcus, yo ucan even make sure JAcobstwon properes and it is never mentioned that they suffered from NCR attacks in the future. The Nightkins brought most of the violence on themselves, just talk to Keene on Jacobstown, that guy is a complete asshole, and he is the leader of a faction of Nightkins.
 
If were going to talk about conjecture what about the theory that the NCR knows about the FEV curling strain, even though not a single character in the NCR confirms it, nor in the Brotherhood. Does this really not make sense too you that the villagers kidnapped from ararro would want to forget their captivity and want to move on, as opposed too running too the NCR whom they have no reason too trust ?
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Yeah, sure. :roll: Forgive and forget. After all they just abducted them, killed friends and relatives and lovers, used them as guinea pigs for an excruciantly painful bio-weapon meant to destroy every human being in the world. I'm sure they wouldn't warn a mostly decent organization like the NCR of the Enclave plan to ensure they are completely wiped out. What's the worst it could happen? I mean, other that them trying the same shit again?

Most of them couldn't read so only Chosen one, Markus, and the Vault dweller would have much idea of what was going on, and remember for all we know the Chosen one could have been a den slaver with ranger squads gunning for him.
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The people in Arroyo can read and a good part of the survivors were Vault (13) Dwellers, and somehow I doubt he didn't inform the others why they were in that situation.

I on the other hand assume that the Ghoulified soldiers will at best be told to disappear given the reaction of the sergeant at camp searchlight upon hearing of his mutated soldier.
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I met a racist once. I guess all italians are racist.
 
Quagmire69 said:
Their are more mutants pissed at the NCR than the Legion. Remember Markus tells you not to tell the muties if your with the NCR, in fact the only person you meet who likes the legion is a ghoul.
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Uh, so? You conveniently forget about the large number of ghouls in Ranger service. Or the OSI employee. Since Rangers are drawn from regular military forces of the NCR, this means that ghouls have a place in NCR society and are treated more or less equal.

Doesn't stop prejudiced morons from campaigning against them to earn cheap fame off of human innate xenophoby.

If were going to talk about conjecture what about the theory that the NCR knows about the FEV curling strain, even though not a single character in the NCR confirms it, nor in the Brotherhood.
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First tell me in what context should they do it. There is no place in New Vegas where such a remark wouldn't feel out of place, quite to the contrary. Most of the people you meet are lower ranking members of their respective factions, while the highest ranking officers and leaders have bigger problems on their hands (Hsu, Moore), are met very briefly (Kimball) or simply weren't privy to such information at the time.

I say, the fact that the NCR still pursues Enclave members and treats them as war criminals proves that they are aware that the Enclave planned to commit genocide on a global scale and had the means to do it.

Does this really not make sense too you that the villagers kidnapped from ararro would want to forget their captivity and want to move on, as opposed too running too the NCR whom they have no reason too trust ?
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Yes, it doesn't make sense. Since Arroyo was destroyed by the Enclave, the villagers were returned to San Francisco with nothing but their rags. NCR is the only organization selfless enough to provide refugee aid, so they had to turn to them for help. The Shi are isolationist and the desolate stretch of land between New Reno and the NCR would be impossible to traverse without proper supplies for such a large group.

Most of them couldn't read so only Chosen one, Markus, and the Vault dweller would have much idea of what was going on, and remember for all we know the Chosen one could have been a den slaver with ranger squads gunning for him.
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Where do you get the notion they were illiterate? Given that the old Elder has knowledge of the Enclave experiments (even if she describes it in a primitive way), it's not a stretch to assume that all villagers more or less knew what the Enclave was doing to them.

I on the other hand assume that the Ghoulified soldiers will at best be told to disappear given the reaction of the sergeant at camp searchlight upon hearing of his mutated soldier.
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So you take the reaction of a single NCR sergeant, stationed at the ass end of the frontline, who has to fight former NCR soldiers turned into feral ghouls as indicative of the entire NCR?

That's a pretty feeble line of reasoning.
 
This thread is still going....

Quagmire69 said:
Their are more mutants pissed at the NCR than the Legion. Remember Markus tells you not to tell the muties if your with the NCR, in fact the only person you meet who likes the legion is a ghoul.
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Mutant background is a bitch. And having a whole village of crazed Nightkin looking at trigger happy NCR soldiers. Legion is nowhere near them so we could only speculate what would they do or how would they feel or react. And Legion heads are one way street anyway, rape kill rinse repeat. I personally think they would wuss out, but then again not enough mutants to scare their big numbers.

Quagmire69 said:
I on the other hand assume that the Ghoulified soldiers will at best be told to disappear given the reaction of the sergeant at camp searchlight upon hearing of his mutated soldier.
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And then the General appears and tells the sergeant to gtfo. Democracy and public opinion. And expendable workforce. They aren't stupid to cast that away. Besides the whole world is changed, it's safe to conclude that they are used to ghouls enough as we are at wiping our asses.

Quagmire69 said:
-Most of them couldn't read-
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Then how the hell did they read the GECK manual ?
 
Yeah, sure. Rolling Eyes Forgive and forget. After all they just abducted them, killed friends and relatives and lovers, used them as guinea pigs for an excruciantly painful bio-weapon meant to destroy every human being in the world. I'm sure they wouldn't warn a mostly decent organization like the NCR of the Enclave plan to ensure they are completely wiped out. What's the worst it could happen? I mean, other that them trying the same shit again?
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Given that elder thinks that they were taken too hell by insect men riding dragons.

trying the same shit again?
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Thats for Fallout 4

I say, the fact that the NCR still pursues Enclave members and treats them as war criminals proves that they are aware that the Enclave planned to commit genocide on a global scale and had the means to do it.
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It proves that they don't like them. I'm sure they have similar trials planned the leaders of the legion.

t's safe to conclude that they are used to ghouls enough as we are at wiping our asses.
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The bright brotherhood ghouls would disagree.

I'm amazed at the mind bending logic you guys are using to make the NCR into what you WANT it too be.
 
Quagmire69 said:
It proves that they don't like them. I'm sure they have similar trials planned the leaders of the legion.
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Of course they don't like the Enclave, the Enclave tried to kill every human on Earth only a few decades before the events of New Vegas.
 
" I'm amazed at the mind bending logic you guys are using to make the NCR into what you WANT it too be."

I think you have it backwards.

The Bright Brotherhood don't even mention persecution by the NCR at all. What the hell are you reading?
 
Of course they don't like the Enclave, the Enclave tried to kill every human on Earth only a few decades before the events of New Vegas.
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Again, no evidence in that claim. It seems to be just the NCR and the BOS, and the Brotherhood only in retaliation of an Enclave raid as well as their tech. The NCR are the only ones seem to care, House and the people of Vegas don't seem to mind Enclave survivor in their midst, and Caesar would probably invite them to join the Legion.
 
Caesar would invite them to join the Legion? the fuck are you on? Caesar Hates technology, and he hates dependance on it, The Enclave want to build a society taht Caesar hates. House don't care about the Enclave because they are not a direct threat to him in the moment because they are dead, The ENclave tried to whipe humanity, Its canon that the CHosen One helped the NCR, and the only way Arroyo could have survived the trip from San Francisco to their original palce would eb with outside help, EMily Ortal si from Arroyo, and she is a pretty intelgient Follower of the Apocalypse.
BUt keep using selective misquoting and tangled logic, its very entertaining.
 
what you WANT it too be.
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I DON"T LIKE THEM! How the hell could I want them too be anything!

Caesar would invite them to join the Legion?
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He would let the survivors because he values victory more than making political statements. Also he does not hate technology. He just thinks that robot soldiers are wrong because humanity could fight wars without sacrifice and become weak.
 
No he states that he hates dependance on Tecnology, he uses the autodoc because he is a hypocrite, and if he values vcitory why would he allow them to join? they lost, they are losers. The ideals of the ENclave is rebuild a kidn of society that he hates. Do you even think before writing?
 
The NCR have try them because both claim to be the US gov. Theirs no way they can claim to be the new US if theirs still a US government alive.

If the Enclave are universally reviled then why does no one else seem to give a damn with the exception of the Brotherhood, who just want their tech. Vegas and its citizens seem not too care most likely due to the fact that its a pre war city and not inhabited by road warrior types and trogs. If you go independent I wouldn't be surprised if Arcade became the fucking mayor.[/quote]
 
Quagmire69 said:
Of course they don't like the Enclave, the Enclave tried to kill every human on Earth only a few decades before the events of New Vegas.
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Again, no evidence in that claim. It seems to be just the NCR and the BOS, and the Brotherhood only in retaliation of an Enclave raid as well as their tech. The NCR are the only ones seem to care, House and the people of Vegas don't seem to mind Enclave survivor in their midst, and Caesar would probably invite them to join the Legion.
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What do you mean no evidence? That was the main plot of Fallout 2, trying to stop the Enclave from killing everyone on Earth.
 
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