NCR, Enclave, FEV Curling-13 (and mutants)

[LinkPain]

Since the acquisition of the Fallout franchise by Bethesda Softworks and their development of Fallout 3, it is Bethesda that defines the official canon. However, many Fallout fans prefer the Fallout canon as it was defined by various developers working on previous Fallout games, even if they also contradicted each other at times.

It should be noted, that thus far Bethesda has not officially ruled on what is canon and what is not. Most of the information on their take is from Fallout 3 in-game material.

^
Taken from wiki.
Bethesda will never take the canon claim as only theirs, as it will be their downfall. Giving Obsidian to work on NV proved that they are not as retarded as we usually claim. Moneywise they don't want to lose hc players or nebws.

 

[Crni Vuk]

it is pretty simple for me though. Where ever Fallout 3 contradicts Fallout 1/2 canon Fallout 3 is NOT canon in my eyes. Anything else ? They can do what ever t hey want. As long they stay with their shanebambe on the west coast.

 

[Quagmire69]

it is pretty simple for me though. Where ever Fallout 3 contradicts Fallout 1/2 canon Fallout 3 is NOT canon in my eyes. Anything else ? They can do what ever t hey want. As long they stay with their shanebambe on the west coast.

I don't see how it contridicts in any significant areas the eastern mutants being different was explained and is plausible.

I found Vegas to full of contridictions too. They mutilated the Brotherhood of Steel. They took it from a couragious group of ex soldiers and the decendants trying to keep humanities knowlege alive and preventing a new dark age, to a cult who are interested mainly in steeling from others. Not once did I hear the usual matra of wanting to preserve humanties progress, rather they just bitched about how they need to keep people primitive. WTF.

 

[Tagaziel]

I don't see how it contridicts in any significant areas the eastern mutants being different was explained and is plausible.

No, it really didn't. Vault 87 was an arbitrary method of forcing in another "classic" faction in a desperate bid for legitimacy. The PVP/FEV project was a top secret affair put under military supervision shortly before the war. There was no reason for the government to give Vault-Tec FEV experiment with, much less exempt them from military control, as there is absolutely no trace of any soldiers or similiar in Vault 87.

I found Vegas to full of contridictions too. They mutilated the Brotherhood of Steel. They took it from a couragious group of ex soldiers and the decendants trying to keep humanities knowlege alive and preventing a new dark age, to a cult who are interested mainly in steeling from others. Not once did I hear the usual matra of wanting to preserve humanties progress, rather they just bitched about how they need to keep people primitive. WTF.

What? The Brotherhood was never courageous or aiming to keep knowledge alive. They were always a deeply xenophobic, hostile faction who preferred to be left alone. Where do you get the gist that they were altruists keeping humanity's knowledge alive is beyond me.

That depends on what we call nazi officials. As far as the people who joinded the Nazi party as far as i'm concerned they dug thier own grave. Thier were many field cammanders though who got a raw deal. Most of whom were actually pardoned by the allies within ten years of the defeat of germany. Also as far as I know the allies werent hunting down the children of German soldiers. I mean it would make more sense of arcade was the son of richardson but his dad was just a footsoldier, how more vindictive can you get..

Question. Answer. Now.

Arcade killed himself because he became a legion sex toy who would have been killed or passed around right after ceasar died. I imagine what happens to gay guys in the legion is alot like what happens to gays guys in prison. Again, never said Legion was great.

You're an idiot. Arcade killed himself because he hated Caesar, not because he would be abused.

Also, if you'd investigate the issue, you'd know Caesar punishes homosexuality with crucifixion.

 

[Quagmire69]

You're an idiot. Arcade killed himself because he hated Caesar, not because he would be abused.

Also, if you'd investigate the issue, you'd know Caesar punishes homosexuality with crucifixion.

Where in th game does it say this, thier are like five different accounts that say the opposite.

I still don't understand the personal dislike some people have for me.

 

[White Knight]

imprisoning Nazi officials?

That depends on what we call nazi officials. As far as the people who joinded the Nazi party as far as i'm concerned they dug thier own grave. Thier were many field cammanders though who got a raw deal. Most of whom were actually pardoned by the allies within ten years of the defeat of germany. Also as far as I know the allies werent hunting down the children of German soldiers. I mean it would make more sense of arcade was the son of richardson but his dad was just a footsoldier, how more vindictive can you get..

You also conveniently omit that Arcade HATES Caesar with a passion and disembowels himself in the end, if sold into slavery.

Arcade killed himself because he became a legion sex toy who would have been killed or passed around right after ceasar died. I imagine what happens to gay guys in the legion is alot like what happens to gays guys in prison. Again, never said Legion was great.

Arcades father was a military scientist with acess to Tesla Armour, and even then they aren't hunting him specifically, its because hes wearing Enclave Power armour, and it is noted that the Remnants killed Hundreds of Legion soldiers in one ending, so the NCR seeing Arcade as a threat is understandable, looking at the damage the Remnants could do if they attacked the NCR.

And Arcade became a intellectual opponent to Caesar, and then one night killed himself when nobody was looking. Caesar is still alive and mourns his death.

And the only account of the game where it is mentioned about Homosexual Slaves is Jimmy, who was abused by Legion soldiers, most likely in private.

 

[Quagmire69]

Arcades father was a military scientist with acess to Tesla Armour, and even then they aren't hunting him specifically, its because hes wearing Enclave Power armour, and it is noted that the Remnants killed Hundreds of Legion soldiers in one ending, so the NCR seeing Arcade as a threat is understandable, looking at the damage the Remnants could do if they attacked the NCR.

I thought his father was a soldier but I could be mistaken. Also so he had tesla armour, most likely all that would mean is that he is a lowly trooper and probably not an officer. I don't see how its understandible considering that the scenarios in which he is hunted down are the ones in which the remnants hepled the NCR. You'd think they would be gratefull.

Caesar is still alive and mourns his death.

That does'nt clue you in that something creepy was going on for ceasar to mourn the death of a slave, i mean lets face it hes not the most sentimental guy in town.

And the only account of the game where it is mentioned about Homosexual Slaves is Jimmy, who was abused by Legion soldiers, most likely in private.

The Legion strikes me as a group self hating macho that would probably use and abuse open gays, despite being completely gay themselves. Sort of like in prison where they rationalize thier completely gay behavior by feminizing and degrading the other guy.

 

[White Knight]

Arcades father was a military scientist with acess to Tesla Armour, and even then they aren't hunting him specifically, its because hes wearing Enclave Power armour, and it is noted that the Remnants killed Hundreds of Legion soldiers in one ending, so the NCR seeing Arcade as a threat is understandable, looking at the damage the Remnants could do if they attacked the NCR.

I thought his father was a soldier but I could be mistaken. Also so he had tesla armour, most likely all that would mean is that he is a lowly trooper and probably not an officer. I don't see how its understandible considering that the scenarios in which he is hunted down are the ones in which the remnants hepled the NCR. You'd think they would be gratefull.

You have to remember his father was alive during 2241, when tesla armour hadn't been perfected. The armour in game is very crude and seems like a prototype rather than a standard issue model. The Enclave wouldn't give that to a enlisted soldier, or even an officer, so it makes sense to give it to a military scientist to test it in the field and be able to make adjustments to it. And its perfectly understandable what I said. If a group of people using advanced post-war technology suddenly appear and attack your enemies, you have to wonder why they are helping you. The NCR would rather get rid of the problem than give them any oppurtunity to attack just to find out why they helped them. For all they know, the Remnants could hate both sides, but they got rid of the legion first, and could be preparing for an attack on the NCR. The Republic have to go with what little info they have, and act upon it, or risk losing lives. They may be grateful, but they haven't forgotten what the Enclave did 40 years ago and they don't know what this groups motives are.

 

[Lexx]

I don't see how its understandible considering that the scenarios in which he is hunted down are the ones in which the remnants hepled the NCR. You'd think they would be gratefull.

Well, I bet they are. But that doesn't change the fact that the remnants are dangerous as hell and if they would go against the NCR at some point, deal a lot damage. Beside this, not only the NCR is hunting him... BoS and other bounty hunters do it as well.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

That does'nt clue you in that something creepy was going on for ceasar to mourn the death of a slave, i mean lets face it hes not the most sentimental guy in town.

"Arcade remains Caesar's personal physician for several years. Caesar grows fond of speaking with such an educated man on philosophical matters. Arcade becomes his unwilling intellectual sparring partner."



Where did you read that Arcade was Caesar's sex toy I have no idea.

 

[Quagmire69]

"Arcade remains Caesar's personal physician for several years. Caesar grows fond of speaking with such an educated man on philosophical matters. Arcade becomes his unwilling intellectual sparring partner."

Come on, I'm not the only one who has wondered this.

Rolling Eyes

Where did you read that Arcade was Caesar's sex toy I have no idea.

Are you calling me gay?

Beside this, not only the NCR is hunting him... BoS and other bounty hunters do it as well.

Brotherhood makes more sense cause they actually attacked by the enclave, but with the NCR its like one day they decide they don't like the Enclave

 

[brfritos]

"Arcade remains Caesar's personal physician for several years. Caesar grows fond of speaking with such an educated man on philosophical matters. Arcade becomes his unwilling intellectual sparring partner."

Come on, I'm not the only one who has wondered this.

Rolling Eyes

Where did you read that Arcade was Caesar's sex toy I have no idea.

Are you calling me gay?

So, if you are a man and a friend of yours is gay, this automatically make you one?

Amazing!

[ ]'s

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Are you calling me gay?

It depends. Did you pick Confirmed Bachelor?

 

[Tagaziel]

Come on, I'm not the only one who has wondered this.

Yes, you are. Caesar likes Arcade because he's not a brainwashed drone who can hold his own in a discussion.

Are you calling me gay?

Totally. According to Kinsey's research, chances are you do have homosexual inclinations.

Brotherhood makes more sense cause they actually attacked by the enclave, but with the NCR its like one day they decide they don't like the Enclave

You don't even try to understand, do you?

 

[LinkPain]

I think FNV is more connected to the original Fallout games and Wasteland. Which is good, i never expected Rangers to appear and to look so badass.

 

[Quagmire69]

You're an idiot. Arcade killed himself because he hated Caesar, not because he would be abused.

Also, if you'd investigate the issue, you'd know Caesar punishes homosexuality with crucifixion.

I know the fallout wik says this but were in the game does it say this, i think it says the opposite like five time.

Taking this a little personally, lets tally up the isults. are you 12, your gay, your a nazi, your an idiot. Whats the big deal just because i like the wrong side in a video game.

According to Kinsey's

was'nt that the guy who said everyone was gay.

It depends. Did you pick Confirmed Bachelor?

No, I played as a lesbian cannibal.

Honestly the reason I think the NCR attacked the Enclave is because thier rivals to the thone. For the NCR to become the next America they have to destroy the last one.

I still think its wierd how everyone in fallout 3 made constant remarks about being americans but only ceasar, house, and the remnants seem to know it existed.

 

[Tagaziel]

I know the fallout wik says this but were in the game does it say this, i think it says the opposite like five time.

Yeah, people who never actually saw the legion (Cass, Veronica, Knight) are more of an authority on the matter than an ex-slave who was the lover of a Legion Centurion (Jimmy in Westside). Totally.

Taking this a little personally, lets tally up the isults. are you 12, your gay, your a nazi, your an idiot. Whats the big deal just because i like the wrong side in a video game.

If you haven't noticed, those weren't insults (except for "You're an idiot", but that's more of me challenging you to prove me wrong rather than an outright insult), but questions. I've never said that you were gay or a nazi or twelve years old (because frankly, that'd be a little on the sick side, a pre-pubescent gay nazi).

It isn't a big deal. You post a topic, you discuss it. Appreciate that we aren't patting you on the head, but challenging you and tearing apart your reasoning, because we force you to adapt, to think, to react. If we didn't care or hate you outright, then we'd ignore you. Note that this topic has eight pages now. It's a lot.

Quagmire, while you do make errors, you also have potential. We might be a hard bunch, but we care. We're your friends and friends will be the first to kick you in the ass to get your shit together.

Keep posting. It's beneficial for you and us alike - you make ripples and move this forum, while we, bit by bit, help to refine your mind.

So that you can CRUSH ENEMIES WITH YOUR MIND.

was'nt that the guy who said everyone was gay.

Uh, no, he's the guy who concluded after proper research that 100% straight and 100% gay people are extremely rare - most humans rank somewhere in between.

Honestly the reason I think the NCR attacked the Enclave is because thier rivals to the thone. For the NCR to become the next America they have to destroy the last one.

That isn't too logical. Enclave is miniature, the NCR is massive. I think a more likely answer is that the Brotherhood shared their intel with the NCR after the destruction of the oil rig and it was a joint witch hunt. With people who were ready to destroy the world to prevail, you can never be too sure.

I still think its wierd how everyone in fallout 3 made constant remarks about being americans but only ceasar, house, and the remnants seem to know it existed.

That's because Fallout 3 NPCs suffer from a temporal confusion syndrome and think the war happened 20, nod 200 years ago. Also, see my post earlier in the thread about history, lack of education etc. Most people propably don't even know the US existed.

 

[LinkPain]

Honestly the reason I think the NCR attacked the Enclave is because thier rivals to the thone. For the NCR to become the next America they have to destroy the last one.

This is something for wait and see.
NCR is not that clever or resourceful to take the whole wasteland by itself or just by their numbers. And Chief Hanlon mentioned in his story already, NCR is looking for resources takeover so they are interested in that only (looking at US today...)

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Honestly the reason I think the NCR attacked the Enclave is because thier rivals to the thone. For the NCR to become the next America they have to destroy the last one.

What throne?
While we associate Imperialistic tendencies to the United States, and its line of successive presidents in general come from a group of people who often already stood out due to financial or previous political power, the US still isn't a monarchy.

Yes I know its a figure of speech but its brought up to give an idea of how you think apparently government seems to work in the US.


Also, the NCR competing with the Enclave for control of the United States?
The NCR seems more to have started out to bring back some of the old world ideals and hopes that once united the country and build up upon it while driving away the anarchy and violence that has overrun the wasteland, creating an atmosphere in which civilization can be rebuild and people can work and live together without fearing the tyranny of warlords or raider/mutant attacks?

In that way they are indeed inspired by the United States, but seeing the Enclave as a competitor?

Before Fallout 2 the NCR did not even know that the Enclave existed, let alone that it had its origins in the old world US government.

If these guys had come forth to the NCR with the message that they wanted to work together to rebuild the country and restore the US of A the NCR would probably be quite less if not at all hostile (suspicious maybe but not outright hostile) as the Enclave could provide resources and knowledge the NCR would have to rediscover the slow way otherwise.

The NCR went after the Enclave because of their genocidal tendencies such as the plan of using modified FEV to wipe out all the Enclave considered as impure and mutated human stock (everyone outside themselves).

Not everyone in the Enclave shares that idea but these people were never in charge or were told what the higher ups have in mind.

Even after the Poseidon Oil Rig was gone the Enclave posed a great threat, a large group of military and scientific trained men and women armed with a lot of weaponry and technology who are suddenly without leadership and will probably do everything to survive.

Perhaps things might have been different if the remnants of the Enclave had knocked on the NCR's door, offering things like knowledge or support in return for supplies, but the fact the NCR and the BOS still hunted them down after the destruction of the Enclave headquarters seems to make it clear that a lot of them still thought that pursuing their leaders' ideology was the best way.

Those who didn't agree left the Enclave and joined wasteland communities like Arcade Gannon's father and his old squad.


I have a different question now, why do you seem to want to elevate the Enclave on a pedestal?
Them being wounded and misunderstood, only wanting to bring peace and unity to the country?
The organization was mostly established to take one day control of the US government, a government elected by the people, and survive a nuclear holocaust while letting the ordinary man perish outside, or experiment on them in Vaults in order to get test data for their space colonization program.
Experiments that often ended disastrously.

 

[Quagmire69]

Theirs no evidence that the NCR knew about the existence of FEV. They seem like a clueless bunch at the lower levels so what makes you think they know at the higher levels. The reason you put people on show trials is for political gain. If they saw them as just another wasteland threat they would have just put bullets in the backs of their heads and been done with it, like they did with the Khans. Putting them on trial more shows that their trying to get legitimacy.