NFL - The Thread, '08.

[Brother None]

no franchise deserves to be the winningest team in history as much as the Steelers do.

wait...why? yeah they played a good game and all...but, "Any Given Sunday", no?

The winningest team in history, man. I'm not saying this was the most deserved win in Superbowl history, it's not. But the Steelers now have 6 Vince Lombardis. Of all the organisations in the NFL, I can't think of a single on that has been as consistent as an organisation since the 70's. Whether it be great coaches, good ownership, good picks, good philosophy, don't matter.

I don't like the Steelers, let that be clear. Thinking of Superbowl XL still makes my blood boil, as a Hawks fan, but you've got to respect the organisation they've put up over the past 4 decades. If this was the Cowboys notching their 6th I would have my doubts, but you can't knock how much the Steelers deserve it.

Any Given Sunday is true per individual game. And parity proves that even underdog franchises like the Cardinals can achieve. But to a certain extent the Steelers beat parity and beat the Any Given Sunday rule by accomplishing so much.

Ugh, I should really get into American Football.
Remind me to actually really join the next Fantasy Football game.

I didn't even know you watched. Next year come by my place, I'll finally set up a SB watching party. The last two years it's just been me and my housemate.

This surprised me again this year, but even though I have no feeling for the teams (and hence made a last-minute sidebet with a friend on the outcome, which I lost dammit), no other sport I've seen comes close to the suspense of the Super Bowl.

For sure. I wasn't that involved yet this came close to getting me as worked up as Russia-Netherlands did. It was a damned exciting 4th quarter right down to the final seconds.

I was pro-Cardinals, but only from a revenge-for-XL viewpoint. Anbd I really dig Larry Fitzgerald.

Great half-time show, too, by the way.

Heh, yeah, you could tell Bruce was having fun out there, good stuff, really the kind of performance that does what a SB half-time show is supposed to do - get the excitement level up even higher than it already is. Still, it's about time to get over Nipplegate and stop inviting old guys already.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

no other sport I've seen comes close to the suspense of the Super Bowl.

bah, bullshit. again "Any Given Sunday".


but football = <3 and yes i know what you meant.


EDIT: CAPSLOCK, SORRY.

@kharn - yeah, i know. that's all fine and good for statistics but what i meant was "why do they deserve it as a franchise? i mean, if you think about it that way wouldn't the Packers deserve it more considering the trophy is named after their coach who won the first 2 bowels? i only meant by "Any Given Sunday" that the only team that deserves it is the team that wins and the franchise per se doesn't have anything to say about it. most franchises have changed since their inception, some to the degree that they've moved from town to town. Pitts is great because they're old school but i'd never say they deserve it more just because they've had the luck to have great teams throughout the years.

i think the Any Given Sunday rule exists all the time, every time.

 

[Brother None]

@kharn - yeah, i know. that's all fine and good for statistics but what i meant was "why do they deserve it as a franchise? i mean, if you think about it that way wouldn't the Packers deserve it more considering the trophy is named after their coach who won the first 2 bowels?

What? That's stupid. You're a stupidface. You don't deserve it because the trophy is named after you, if that was true the Chiefs would deserve the AFC championship the most and the Bears the NFC championship.

Well, by most conventional football logic they deserve it the most because they have it. This is America, man, you can never knock the winner, there's no such thing as an undeserved win, and there's certainly no such thing as six undeserved wins.

I'm not sure how to make myself much more clearer, tho'. They don't deserve it because they're the most charming or nicest to look at, they deserve it because they've set up a great franchise, engendered fanatic fans (mostly by winning, it's a positive cycle) and have for 4 decades now stocked every position in their staff with competent to brilliant people, which results in great teams on the field. Of course it's all up to the teams in the end, but no organisation is capable of fielding great teams again and again like the Steelers can. They're like the current Pats organisation only over a longer period of time.

Pitts is great because they're old school but i'd never say they deserve it more just because they've had the luck to have great teams throughout the years.

BS. You don't beat parity and have a streak of great first-round picks like the Steelers have had because of luck. Bullshit.

If luck were the only relevant factor, wouldn't the Lions have won a Superbowl by now? No, because they have the most incompetent franchise in the NFL (I suppose together with the Cardinals up until a few years ago) and it shows on the field.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

What? That's stupid. You're a stupidface. You don't deserve it because the trophy is named after you, if that was true the Chiefs would deserve the AFC championship the most and the Bears the NFC championship.

i was making a point about the word "deserved", this isn't something i actually think. i'm just saying, a word like that has heavy connotations and i don't think anybody deserves to win but the team that wins. plain and simple. and luck? yeah, luck would lead the money in the right places in the right towns for the right amount of time.

as in, it was luck that let Bellichick leave the Browns, let the Browns basically move to Baltimore and become the Ravens. it was luck that let the Browns become a team again and luck which made them suck. it was luck which brought Bellichick to the Pats and let them become juggernauts for almost a decade.

it's all luck man. it's all timing, opportunity and place and the money in the right hands. a place like Detroit? meh. some places don't pour all their resources into their football teams. some can't. some teams have sucked for so long all the investors have left Dodge.

and of course it's not the only factor, luck. i'm just saying...nobody deserves to win because they've had the good fortune of history being on their side. a guy like Polomalu wasn't even conscious of himself when the Steelers won their first bowel...it's totally irrelevant. what he does (or anybody on his team) now is what counts.

and for this season, they won. that's it though.

 

[Brother None]

Man it's like you got your ears plugged.
I'm not saying they deserved to win this Superbowl or any other single game because of their franchise history, I'm saying that of all the NFL franchises that exist the one that has built the best organisation to be the winningest franchise in history is the Steelers - how or why they did this is almost irrelevant, the fact is they did. That has nothing to do with this one individual Superbowl, but my point is in fact proven by the fact that are the winningest team. It's kind of circular, and no amount of "it's all luck" can change that.

In any case, the ruling on the field is that you're an idiot, and that's it. This debate is becoming too nonsensical now.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Luck? So what right does a 9 win team from the worst division in the NFL have to lay claim to? That they beat the 9-6-1 Eagles in the NFC conference champ?

Steelers played the hardest schedule of the last 10 years and still won.

edit: Goddamn you for making me stick up for the Steelers, I hate them too, but you gotta respect they way they run their organization. That's no fluke.
Cowboys have all the luck money can buy, it's what now, 11 years since the won a playoff game. There's a lot of variables that go into a winning season, but management and coaching go a long way.

 

[Maphusio]

Well this time around was a HUGE disappointment for me... But, there was a RDA commercial! WOOT!

http://www.spike.com/video/pepsi-mcgruber/3104883

 

[Daimyo]

My wife and I spent the (local Norwegian) time from 00:00 to 04:11 awake to watch this, and it is the first full football game I have ever seen. (Thank the Vault Dweller for live streaming on the internet by the way or we would not have had the chance as none of our channels showed the match)

It was a lot of fun, and I am glad I got to see the 100 yard play by Richardson.

I believe I will be wacthing more American football in the future.

 

[Sander]

I didn't even know you watched. Next year come by my place, I'll finally set up a SB watching party. The last two years it's just been me and my housemate.

Sounds like fun. Far too few Dutchies that watch the Superbowl.

My wife and I spent the (local Norwegian) time from 00:00 to 04:11 awake to watch this, and it is the first full football game I have ever seen. (Thank the Vault Dweller for live streaming on the internet by the way or we would not have had the chance as none of our channels showed the match)

You don't get BBC 1 in Norway?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Would that every SB were so great.
The last two have been two of the best.
It looks like parity is working.

 

[Daimyo]

You don't get BBC 1 in Norway?

We sure do, but our current provider does not have BBC1 in their standard package, so at the moment we don't have access to it.

Various providers have different standard packages and expansion packages, but it all costs of course ...

 

[Maphusio]

(Thank the Vault Dweller for live streaming on the internet by the way or we would not have had the chance as none of our channels showed the match)

Wait, wait, wait... he streamed it on-line?! I'm not griping over the copyright issue because the NFL has some serious problems in their misinterpretation of that but; was it like him and friends on the couch and you were in the mix of it watching with them? I seriously would see appeal to that!

I'm glad you enjoyed the game! Next year, it will be the Seahawks, all the way... Folk out there may be laughing but I think they are over their mass casualty phase of the '08 season.

At any rate, I can't wait for my first taste of professional football (soccer) in my neck of the woods. Seattle now has its own professional soccer team in part owned by Drew Cery (American Comedian). He only agreed to have a large stake in the team if they could have their own marching band! ...god, this year will be Interesting to say the least.

 

[Brother None]

Oh yeah, the Seattle Sounders. Ugliest club colours ever. Can't say I watch much MLS, but I hear the level has been steadily rising for some time now. All you have to do to be taken seriously is get rid of Beckham.

Also, to people who really enjoyed this SB and it was their first/a rare taste: don't get completely fooled. This was the best Superbowl since 2004's Patriots-Panthers. And most games just aren't this good/exciting, overall, definitely not in the regular season.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

True. The last 5 minutes (and the last play of the 1st half) made a pedestrian game a great game. The Steelers going into that lame prevent defense kept AZ in it.

But yeah, the SB really sucked growing up. Redskins, '9ers, Cowboys, Giants, through the 80s and 90s were so uncompetitive. The NFC title game back in those days was better than any SB.

 

[Maphusio]

Also, to people who really enjoyed this SB and it was their first/a rare taste: don't get completely fooled. This was the best Superbowl since 2004's Patriots-Panthers. And most games just aren't this good/exciting, overall, definitely not in the regular season.

How now your downplaying it. I generally see something awesome every game... I wanted to link a video here of, I think it was a NY Jet corner back that ran someone down on the other team, leaped in the air as if he were batman or off a Matrix film and just came down on the wide receiver of the other team. Funniest yet awesome tackle ever.

 

[Sander]

Oh yeah, the Seattle Sounders. Ugliest club colours ever. Can't say I watch much MLS, but I hear the level has been steadily rising for some time now. All you have to do to be taken seriously is get rid of Beckham.

Also, to people who really enjoyed this SB and it was their first/a rare taste: don't get completely fooled. This was the best Superbowl since 2004's Patriots-Panthers. And most games just aren't this good/exciting, overall, definitely not in the regular season.

Last year was really good as well, though.

 

[Maphusio]

Oh yeah, the Seattle Sounders. Ugliest club colours ever. Can't say I watch much MLS, but I hear the level has been steadily rising for some time now. All you have to do to be taken seriously is get rid of Beckham.

Also, to people who really enjoyed this SB and it was their first/a rare taste: don't get completely fooled. This was the best Superbowl since 2004's Patriots-Panthers. And most games just aren't this good/exciting, overall, definitely not in the regular season.

Last year was really good as well, though.

Indeed... the Pats lost!

 

[UniversalWolf]

The winningest team in history, man. I'm not saying this was the most deserved win in Superbowl history, it's not. But the Steelers now have 6 Vince Lombardis.

Whoa, hold on there! The Steelers have won the most Superbowls, but the Packers have still won the most championships by a wide margin. Green Bay was Title Town before there was a Superbowl.

http://www.packers.com/history/super_bowls_and_championships/

There's a reason the trophy is named after Vince.

Personally I respect the Steelers as an organization, but I think the refs completely botched the last few minutes of the game. Harrison should've been ejected, Holmes should've gotten a 15 yard penalty for using the ball as a prop in his celebration, and Warner didn't fumble. Them's the breaks.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Pre-integration statistics are a farce. Whitey Bowls is what they should be called.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Pre-integration statistics are a farce. Whitey Bowls is what they should be called.

I dunno, the Yankees count their records from the Babe Ruth era, right?



Anyway, Pittsburgh's won their SBs in the steroids era. Green Bay's first two were after integration and before steroids.