5545Trey
Underground Deviant
Around two or three hundred years. Three just for the Capital Wasteland.
Opinions on Fallout 4?
- Thread starter Sn1p3r187
- Start date
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Shoot, sounds reasonable. I might even give 100 years for the NCR or Vault City.
Chromevod
Nope.
I was under the impression that the canon route for Vault City is that the NCR annexed it.
Sn1p3r187
Carolinian Shaolin Monk
Maybe. It isn't stated. I'm guessing Vault City stayed independent along with New Reno
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
I thought that the NCR eventually annexed Vault City. At lest that's what the Fallout Bible says so it may or may not be canon.
PossibleCabbage
Vault 22 Survivor
Hi folks, I've lurked for years but never bothered to register an account before today, but I've felt compelled to since I wanted to talk about Fallout 4 some place I won't be lambasted for not being wholly optimistic about.
Regarding the tangent about amnesia, my reading of the developer's intention is that the Courier starts New Vegas with some degree of memory loss (i.e. why you start at level 1) but the extent of the memory loss was left up to the player to determine by roleplaying. That's why the game allows you to choose dialog that indicates you know about specific bosses in New Reno, but also lets you ask really basic questions about the setting (i.e. "what's the NCR?") that the Courier could not possibly need to ask without experiencing some kind of memory loss. If you're playing the game by roleplaying a character, instead of just mining conversation trees, this makes perfect sense.
This segues into my major concern about Fallout 4- Roleplaying a character who predates the Great War is more or less impossible. Fallout games have always had scant details about what life was like before the War, and what we learned about it was basically pieced together through archaeology. So even someone with extensive experience with the setting isn't going to know a lot about day-to-day life before the War, but they will know a lot about the world after the war. This isn't so much an issue of "I know something my character doesn't", it's an issue of "my character's knowledge exists in the complement of my own"-- everything my character knows about the world, I don't know, and vice versa. Bethesda games already make it hard on people who actually want to define a character and roleplay it, but this is the most deliberately antagonistic move I've ever seen anybody be towards folks who actually want to roleplay in RPGs. Add this to the fact that the more they tell you about the pre-war world, the more creative space they eliminate for future Fallout games. That stuff should only be doled out in small amounts because Fallout is better when "what's out there" remains largely mysterious.
My other major complaint is that Bethesda seems overly concerned with making the the player feel safe and empowered in the Wasteland. Fallout has always been at its best when you feel unsure and somewhat vulnerable because you don't know what's out there and you're suspicious you're not ready for it, and even when you're near the height of your power you never feel like you can save the world, you can just improve a small part of it or stop whoever it is that's trying to make it worse. The whole notion of "there are 700 gun mods" and "you can build a base with water, power, livestock, and crops" undermines both the benefit these games get from making you feel vulnerable, and also the notion that you can't actually save the world. I mean, if you're a Fallout citizen, if you can build a settlement that is self-sufficient in terms of food, water, and power, and has automated defenses... why would you ever go outside? Let people come to you and buy your surplus food. I mean, the last Mad Max film shows how much power you'd wield in the wasteland if you can produce food and water...
Regarding the tangent about amnesia, my reading of the developer's intention is that the Courier starts New Vegas with some degree of memory loss (i.e. why you start at level 1) but the extent of the memory loss was left up to the player to determine by roleplaying. That's why the game allows you to choose dialog that indicates you know about specific bosses in New Reno, but also lets you ask really basic questions about the setting (i.e. "what's the NCR?") that the Courier could not possibly need to ask without experiencing some kind of memory loss. If you're playing the game by roleplaying a character, instead of just mining conversation trees, this makes perfect sense.
This segues into my major concern about Fallout 4- Roleplaying a character who predates the Great War is more or less impossible. Fallout games have always had scant details about what life was like before the War, and what we learned about it was basically pieced together through archaeology. So even someone with extensive experience with the setting isn't going to know a lot about day-to-day life before the War, but they will know a lot about the world after the war. This isn't so much an issue of "I know something my character doesn't", it's an issue of "my character's knowledge exists in the complement of my own"-- everything my character knows about the world, I don't know, and vice versa. Bethesda games already make it hard on people who actually want to define a character and roleplay it, but this is the most deliberately antagonistic move I've ever seen anybody be towards folks who actually want to roleplay in RPGs. Add this to the fact that the more they tell you about the pre-war world, the more creative space they eliminate for future Fallout games. That stuff should only be doled out in small amounts because Fallout is better when "what's out there" remains largely mysterious.
My other major complaint is that Bethesda seems overly concerned with making the the player feel safe and empowered in the Wasteland. Fallout has always been at its best when you feel unsure and somewhat vulnerable because you don't know what's out there and you're suspicious you're not ready for it, and even when you're near the height of your power you never feel like you can save the world, you can just improve a small part of it or stop whoever it is that's trying to make it worse. The whole notion of "there are 700 gun mods" and "you can build a base with water, power, livestock, and crops" undermines both the benefit these games get from making you feel vulnerable, and also the notion that you can't actually save the world. I mean, if you're a Fallout citizen, if you can build a settlement that is self-sufficient in terms of food, water, and power, and has automated defenses... why would you ever go outside? Let people come to you and buy your surplus food. I mean, the last Mad Max film shows how much power you'd wield in the wasteland if you can produce food and water...
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Khannis
Rebuilding America
I think the "empowering" features, such as powerful weapons/crafting, settlements and such CAN be done well, especially if these things actually feel like an achievement, and a difficult thing. If you can just slap together a settlement in half an hour it will feel absurd. Why doesn't everyone do that, after all?
But I am a little concerned with this "not-so-apocalyptic" vibe I'm getting. I know, its been 200 years since the bombs, and I would prefer an earlier timeframe. But as I said, all these choices, all they have shown us, can result in an awesome game... I'm just not very confident it will at this point.
But I am a little concerned with this "not-so-apocalyptic" vibe I'm getting. I know, its been 200 years since the bombs, and I would prefer an earlier timeframe. But as I said, all these choices, all they have shown us, can result in an awesome game... I'm just not very confident it will at this point.
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
TBH, if they do it less apocalyptic, that'd be good karma on Beth IMO. Fallout 3 didn't make any sense because it felt like the bombs fell half an hour ago, nobody acomplished anything. Having no rad-free water was the stupidest of the stupidest. Serious-fucking-ly, do you want to convince me that there are settlements with living people that after 200 hundred years of getting poisoned didn't think of making clean water a priority? Nevermind Fallout physics contradict the idea that water stays contaminated that long (see Fallout 2, after continuous filtering of rad poison into Vault City's water, fixing the nuclear plant on Gecko pretty much fixes the problem quickly).
I don't expect a fully rebuilt civilization, but some basic stuff have to be acomplished by people in 200 years.
I don't expect a fully rebuilt civilization, but some basic stuff have to be acomplished by people in 200 years.
Khannis
Rebuilding America
I wholeheartedly agree, friend, that's why I mentioned an earlier timeframe. Doing the "Fallout 3" and saying it has been both 200 years since the bomb AND nobody has a clean drop to drink or a reliable source of food is preposterous (one of Fallout 3's many, many inconsistencies), and absolutely the worst case scenario. Since we're going with 2277, a more civilized thing is to be expected of a believable setting, but I'd certainly prefer something in the late 2100's or early 2200s.
Greentoast11
First time out of the vault
I like it a lot I really cannot see why people are comparing the gameplay of fallout 1,2,tactics to that of recent fallout games and fallout 4 as the gameplay is not comparable completely different . What you can however compare is the dialogue and story all of which lacked in Fallout 3 apart from some moments when the blind man's dart hit 180 . But with that rant aside I will get to what I think is bettered and what is negative from what I have seen.
Pros:
- Weapon Customization!
- Stuff looks more bulky and retro (Nuka cola bottles ,Power armor etc)
- Enhanced armor system.
- Settlement building.
- Vertibird travel.
- Cities we have seen look more believable and feel more alive.
- Character creation looks tremendously improved from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Cons:
- New dialogue system and voiced character takes away from the idea that you can be who you want.
- Pre defined straight male/female takes away from writing your own backstory partially.
- New V.A.T.S system takes away from what all the prior fallout games bar BoS had which was being able to completely pause time and take in to account all the enemies locations and strike it added a more classic rpg feel.
- Instead of putting in the extra effort of creating ways that radiation could be more harmful such as illness's and such and drawbacks on stats they took the easy route and just integrated radiation to take away from your health. Might end up being better but from how I imagine it seems like being poisoned in NV from a cazador.
Pros:
- Weapon Customization!
- Stuff looks more bulky and retro (Nuka cola bottles ,Power armor etc)
- Enhanced armor system.
- Settlement building.
- Vertibird travel.
- Cities we have seen look more believable and feel more alive.
- Character creation looks tremendously improved from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Cons:
- New dialogue system and voiced character takes away from the idea that you can be who you want.
- Pre defined straight male/female takes away from writing your own backstory partially.
- New V.A.T.S system takes away from what all the prior fallout games bar BoS had which was being able to completely pause time and take in to account all the enemies locations and strike it added a more classic rpg feel.
- Instead of putting in the extra effort of creating ways that radiation could be more harmful such as illness's and such and drawbacks on stats they took the easy route and just integrated radiation to take away from your health. Might end up being better but from how I imagine it seems like being poisoned in NV from a cazador.
dufake
First time out of the vault
All I want to see is Goris and his families in Fallout 4. Imagine a deathclaw wearing layered armor.
Just though of another thing that I would love to see in Fallout 4. Seeing how they have improved upon death animations, it would be great if they restored the slicing kill animations of laser weapons from Fallout 2. When I first played Fallout 3 I hated what they have done to energy weapons design-wise, I really want to see my beloved Wattz 2000 back and slice enemies with laser beams again.
Guess will probably have to wait for "Classing weapons mod" For Fallout 4 though.
Guess will probably have to wait for "Classing weapons mod" For Fallout 4 though.
Khannis
Rebuilding America
And you shall have it, mods by the thousands. Fear not.
A good, well-written story with branching and memorable characters, now that's not so easily corrected...
I haven't seen any mod for F:NV that restores the old slicing laser beams, so I wouldn't be so sure.
But I'm hopeful.
And when it comes to story and characters I agree. Though modders have shown that they can do it, just look at Willow, the great companion for FNV. Very well voiced and written.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
And all of Someguy2000 mods.
Khannis
Rebuilding America
Yes, we have awesome mods by awesome modders. But single people, or at best, small teams, cannot solve all of game's problems.
Look at Fallout 3, sure, it is vastly improved by mods, but no one can solve a crappy, inconsistent story almost devoid of choice and consequence and memorable characters. That no mod can solve. That was I think one of the great triumphs of New Vegas, despite its problems, the development time, etc, it managed to have a very good story, awesome characters, and provide a solid framework that could be expanded upon by all the very talented modders in the community, to improve upon an already great RPG.
Look at Fallout 3, sure, it is vastly improved by mods, but no one can solve a crappy, inconsistent story almost devoid of choice and consequence and memorable characters. That no mod can solve. That was I think one of the great triumphs of New Vegas, despite its problems, the development time, etc, it managed to have a very good story, awesome characters, and provide a solid framework that could be expanded upon by all the very talented modders in the community, to improve upon an already great RPG.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Indeed. Modders can only do so much.
Random Turnip
First time out of the vault
Well, it doesn't look washed out and grey anymore, which is nice. not a lot of hope though overall, and all the talk of Beth even removing skills now has me questioning AAA gaming as a whole. I struggled to believe how dumbed down Skyrim was and it looks like they're going even further. And a talking PC just sounds horrible, just hoping that there will be an option in the sound menu (or a mod that adds one) to turn that off. As well as a mod to add skills back in, obviously.
But, I try to be subjective and not have too many opinions on a game I've not played yet, it could be wonderful and be a true Fallout game like we all hope.
But, I try to be subjective and not have too many opinions on a game I've not played yet, it could be wonderful and be a true Fallout game like we all hope.
Neither Oblivion, Fallout 3 nor Skyrim saw a real improvement in the departments that I care the most about in RPGs. That is writting and immersion. And thus I have no reason to believe that all of this will suddenly change for Fallout 4. I am sure it will have its qualities as game. All games do. Even F3. But the question for me is if it lives up to the genre. In other words, does an Role Playing Game actually have the strength of a Role Playing Game. That it's a good shooter for example should be a given if it contains weapons and FPS/Third Person Mechanics, that should not be even a question. It's like talking about good driving mechanics in a racing game, that should come naturally. But while Skyrim had SOME improvements over Oblivion and F3, it was still the same stuff in a different package. The world, it's story and the NPCs become very fast dull and uninspired. There is a lot of suggar coating, particularly at the start of the game, I might say impressing the first moment when the game is releasing you into its world, this was also very true for F3.
And my personal opinion is that F4 will follow the same footsteps. The first 30-60 min of the game will leave a very good impression the first time you leave the vault and looking at the scenery filling your imagination with all the things that could happen. And then you come to places like Megaton or worse, Lamplight, Rivet City and it all starts to fall apart. Bethesda is really good at such things. That is the power of visuals. But most of the time you realize that it's all just on the surface. Like their Radiant AI or their idea about player choices. And in the end almost nothing you actually do in the world of Oblivion/F3/Skyrim (and I guess soon in F4 ...) REALLY matters. It doesn't matter really to anyone that the world is overun by demons or that the player killed billions of Dragons or that you blew up a town with a nuke, that this or that happend. There is neither permance nor any feeling of urgency. It doesn't feel believable as setting.
And my personal opinion is that F4 will follow the same footsteps. The first 30-60 min of the game will leave a very good impression the first time you leave the vault and looking at the scenery filling your imagination with all the things that could happen. And then you come to places like Megaton or worse, Lamplight, Rivet City and it all starts to fall apart. Bethesda is really good at such things. That is the power of visuals. But most of the time you realize that it's all just on the surface. Like their Radiant AI or their idea about player choices. And in the end almost nothing you actually do in the world of Oblivion/F3/Skyrim (and I guess soon in F4 ...) REALLY matters. It doesn't matter really to anyone that the world is overun by demons or that the player killed billions of Dragons or that you blew up a town with a nuke, that this or that happend. There is neither permance nor any feeling of urgency. It doesn't feel believable as setting.
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TheAugmentedScyther
First time out of the vault
To be honest, I'm okay with a voiced protagonist... but the fucking Ass Erect styled dialogue wheel just kills it for me. I actually like to see what I'm going to say before I say it, so I can pick my choices instead of just having to guess.