Outer World's Obligatory Bad News

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by TorontoReign, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    353
    Jun 7, 2008
    I don't think cut content is a problem in and of itself. A problem with development, perhaps, but not necessarily with the product. The game could have been MORE complete with more dev time, but I never felt that New Vegas was unfinished at all until I learned about it from interviews. I mean, we can't even rightly say that the constraints made it a worse game. Hard to say if the additions would have elevated it without actually playing them.

    Sidenote, if it's true that the majority of Bethesda fans hold up Oblivion and Fallout 3 as the standard to return to, it's probably because those were the first entries they played in either series. Those games are old enough now that a large portion of the typical target demographic for gamers would've played them as children. It was the first Fallout game on console, and I'm guessing Oblivion saw a huge boost in console sales over Morrowind. More people like those games because more people have actually played them.

    Back when Oblivion came out, everyone I knew or read articles by thought it was terrible compared to Morrowind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  2. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Nov 26, 2007
    I do too... except that I bought the Oblivion CE before I had heard of Morrowind... It was years [later] before I played Morrowind.
     
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  3. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    Gutted implies content was ready and got removed, which is wrong. Legion content got cut down before they even started concepting it in any serious way.

    Also the "constrained map" was for gameplay / flow and not due to time constrains. Never understood why people kept pissing their pants about it.
     
  4. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I'm sorry to say, but this is factually wrong since it exists a lot of actual Legion cut content in the game files. There are full NPCs, dialogue trees, quests, mention to locations in stuff like scripts, patrol packages and activators, special items, (a lot of) disabled crucifixion crosses, etc.
    There's even an NPC faction that suggests that the player would be able to enslave certain NPCs (these NPCs are included in this faction that is not used for anything in the game).

    There is also an entire sect from the Legion that was planned but cut: The Speculatores. They have a playing card in the FNV collectors edition's card deck, they are also mentioned by a Great Khan in dialogue (not cut).

    We also have an interview with Scott Everett, where he says that FNV world would have been very different than it was in the final version (for PC). Although he says it was console limitations that made them remove stuff and not implement other stuff that was planned.

    And we have interviews with Josh Sawyer where he mentions that there were 2 or 3 settlements (in Legion territory) that were planned but they didn't have time to implement them. They were supposed to allow the player to explore and experience the lives of people living in Legion controlled Territory.

    We also have the early FNV map that was showed at Razzed 2013, where we can see several settlements and locations that were planned but never implemented. Which include some in Legion's controlled land:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  5. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    I remember Sawyer saying the legion stuff was removed early on, except for the tie-in stuff with Ulysses. Would search for his replies, but I'm too lazy for that right now.

    Anyway, still a hard stretch to call this "gutted" which was my original point.
     
  6. C2B

    C2B Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    353
    Aug 17, 2010
    Uhmmmm, what are you talking about?

    The demo and quest that was shown off at E3 had an very decent/insane amount of options. Revealed through multiple previews. And prevented nothing.

    Confirmed

    3 possiblities to get into the factory (Sewers, Dialouge (Disguise System!), Frontal Attack)
    Several options to deal with the opposition inside the factory (manipulate machinery, confuse enemies via intercom, sneak around them (confirmed possible by another recent interview), at least one other I'm forgetting
    Several options to conclude quest, with or without confronting the *villian*. Some of those options you can only discover with prior aquired info. (Here was an example by grilling the questgiver about them.)
    Several quest ending including your typical straight forward murder, getting them to work together, manipulating the business itself, double-crossing your quest giver or both.....

    And the quest ended prematurly as well, who knows if those were the only options. And this was a sidequest.

    Also there are quirks revealed in Interviews like people react to you if you run around naked like in Arcanum. I trust Leonard and Tim.
     
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  7. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    In general, the game was gutted. Just looking at the evidence that remains in the game files shows this.
    I just don't know if I would say that cutting the Legion stuff would have been enough to call the game gutted. But in general, it was gutted alright.

    Just for anyone who is interested (in this type of stuff), here is a document made years ago with some of the cut content that people have found (doesn't have all of the stuff):
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tmgl8dzv2ja55i/fnv cut stuff.txt
    It shows that at least 14 locations never made it to the final game version (including some settlements).
    Companions would have had almost twice the dialogue they do, there are hundreds of cut NPCs and dialogues, there are cut quests and items, there are remains of an extra casino, of Freeside being larger, have tons of NPCs and being open (and the Mormon Fort would have been open too), Rex was supposed to actually find and chase rats (but it was cut), some quests would have had more steps and being longer/more complex, and much, much more stuff.

    I would estimate that FNV would have been at least 1.5 times bigger (in all aspects, not just map) if most of the stuff cut (because they couldn't make it in time or didn't know how to make it work) would be fixed and implemented. And this is just the unused stuff we can find in the game files and code. I have no idea how big the game would have been if they managed to make it all the way they planned, because I'm pretty sure most of that didn't leave any evidence behind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  8. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj It Wandered In From the Wastes

    140
    Apr 30, 2007
    I assumed Outer World was it's own RPG with the FPS fallout game play. My whole bEff was fallout was they could just used a whole new IP like this game. I'll keep an eye on it and try it, IF reviews don't tank it.

    EDIT: not at full price either. No Tux no bux, unless on deep discount.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  9. Squadcar

    Squadcar I'm spinning

    Jun 1, 2018
    Eh, I'm not buying it for at least a year after release so I'll get to see what it's really about before deciding to spend money on it. I couldn't be asshurt either way really. Game doesn't seem as promising as one would hope.

    Also, quit thinking that developers stay the same. Mind you that Bethesda developed Daggerfall and Fallout 76. I wonder how many of the same people worked on those projects?That's the point. As far I as I understood it, some other studio they bought out was handed the Fallout 4 multiplayer portion and were told to make a live service game with it. They did. They were new to making Fallout games and the Creation/Gamebryo engine. No wonder it was a mess. If that's true, that means hardly anyone who made Fallout 3 or 4 likely did much with 76 so not even Bethesda putting out shit you dislike is consistent with teams.

    They're just a company name guys. Evaluate each thing as its own on its own merits.
     
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  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Damn, now FNV feels even more incomplete to me :(
     
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  11. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    353
    Jun 7, 2008
    I agree with this, except that I do think we can guess what to expect when there's continuity in the leadership at the company. We know where those people's priorities lie. In fact, we can definitely tell that they're not the same company that made Daggerfall based on the way the current leadership dismisses their older games as irrelevant.
     
  12. 5545Trey

    5545Trey Underground Deviant

    624
    Jun 25, 2014
    This kind of level-headed perspective on game companies changing over time isn't as common as it should be.

    Reminds me of how people think Rare would have been as successful as it was during the SNES and N64 eras if Microsoft never brought them. It goes beyond my comprehension why people don't understand that these companies won't always be the same ones you knew in last decade, or the decade after that.
     
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  13. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    Or hell sometimes even the same people suck. Look at banjo kazooie vs yooka laylee.
    *Shrugs*

    Still think outer world's is gonna be at least good though.
     
  14. Squadcar

    Squadcar I'm spinning

    Jun 1, 2018
    I hope it will be good, don't get me wrong. But I was fairly naïve when it came to buying games and whatnot up until maybe 2017? I still made some bad purchases but I fully knew and understood what I was doing then. Before that, I was a fairly typical video game consumer. I bought mostly big named titles (not always of course), I got on hype trains, etc. I remember I had played the Division beta on PC and the Dark Zone was the most nerve wracking thing I had felt in a PvP game. There was just a lot of tension but that's probably because you never knew who was gonna win a fight or if there would even be a fight. Builds weren't optimized, couldn't be max level, and I don't think cheats were out for it yet. I preordered that game and it was a huge letdown even after trying it.

    I know some companies are more reliable than others but we've also seen even same project leads and creative directors and writers, or whatever else you want to throw in there make something wonderful and make something awful like Graves said. When someone makes a game really well, I'll pay attention to them more. But that doesn't mean I put my faith in them either, at least not now.
     
  15. uncultivatedfox

    uncultivatedfox First time out of the vault

    5
    Jul 10, 2019
    The Outer Worlds looks like a mix of Borderlands cringey "humour" and Bioware "SJW" quirky character writing that appeals to Tumblr girls. Obsidian isn't Troika, they're not Black Isle, they cling to those words like a baby's mouth on its mother's tit but the reality is most people at Obsidian, and those working on The Outer Worlds, had nothing to do with any games they want you to associate with them. They are just trying to attract the "old-school" RPG crowd.
     
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  16. TheHouseAlwaysWins

    TheHouseAlwaysWins Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    340
    Nov 28, 2015
    is this a troll account
     
  17. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    Except they are almost on point. Seems like they could be from Codex.
     
  18. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator

    Apr 24, 2005
    How dare them! Such disgrace!
     
  19. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Knight Rider oTO Staff Member Moderator Orderite

    Apr 1, 2005
    That part is simply pandering. Kinda like Bethesda saying "HEY WE GOT OBSIDIAN GUYS NOW!"

    It implies they are detached from the audience. Like throwing John Wick in Cyperpunk 2020.
     
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  20. TheHouseAlwaysWins

    TheHouseAlwaysWins Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    340
    Nov 28, 2015
    The rhetoric throughout his post makes me smell culture war brainworms.

    sry
     
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