Political Spergatory or How I Learned To Love /pol

What do you call a group of taliban dudes blowing themselves up?

A gangbang
 
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Some people are just gonna have to come to terms with the fact The Taliban is a private company and can do what they want.
 
I just think it's funny - in a strange weird way. When people here talk about "Da Muslim" world. And I can only laugh. Do they not realise how much muslims actually hate each other? Like Sunni and Shia. Seriously half of the wars in the middle east seem to be about that and Iran and Saudi Arabia backing up various terrorist factions because they hate each other.

It's like 30 year war all over again. But with chemical weapons.
 
Obviously nobody does anything for free. Both the U.S, Russia and China do things quid pro quo.

With this in mind however, at least Afghans had 2 decades free from religious police and theocracy. Were it the Russians or the Chinese, they wouldn't have cared what the Taliban did as long as they got theirs.

So in a way, the U.S. did attempt to civilize a people used to petty tribalism and sectarian violence. Just hearing the interviews of Afghans, especially females, show how American interventionism wasn't all bad and could possibly have succeeded if given more time and better instruction.

If Biden and the Dems hated Trump soooo much, he could have abrogated Trumps Taliban agreement and forced a new one.

1. The Taliban WILL negotiate with the Afghan government or we will continue to bomb you into the stone age. More importantly, all Taliban military operations must cease immediately. A general cease fire will be declared and enforced.

2. Power sharing must be 50/50 and any deviation from this will result in more bombing.

3. The Taliban will no longer be a bunch of religious savages or more bombs.

But like Vietnam, the other side repeatedly violated their peace pledges and America did nothing.

Truly, any attempt at intervention is imperialism and ignoring the country is racism because brown peoples do not deserve help. Fucked if you do and fucked if you do not.
 
Off topic but really seems like these conservative supreme court justices turned out to not be partisan like was claimed may happen.

-Kavanaugh & Gorsuch with Trumps taxes
-Barrett enforcing vaccine mandates
-Gorsuch with work discrimination inclusion of trans people in protections

Like wow...
Imagine getting it all 180 degrees wrong when predicting the rulings. Can't imagine they are going to rule negatively on either immigration or abortion like so many have anticipated.
 
You have to remember that most of those 'picked', by Trump were often let go or quit. They did just enough to gain his confidence and then did their jobs.
 
DarkCorp said:
With this in mind however, at least Afghans had 2 decades free from religious police and theocracy.
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I think in hindsight this was only true on paper. When you look at Afghanistan and the regions most of the controll by the NATO extended to the few city regions which had some airport and larger base. Kinda like under Soviet occupation. The moment the NATO troops left some rural area after they "hunted down" some Taliban forces - of which Afghanistan has many - things went often back to "normal". This is because Afghanistan was and still is rulled by many local warlords and clan structures. And they didn't really had any loyalty to the also corrupt afghan government. Not convinced yet?

The United States military was there for pretty much 20 years and yet the Taliban managed to make billions out of the opium fields inside Afghanistan with selling drugs. How's that possible if the NATO and the Afghan government had controll over the country? Small hint. They never did have the controll. Which is one of the reasons why we saw such a fast collapse after the foreign troops left. Because local leaders would simply send any message to Kabul the governement wanted to hear while at the same time delivering to the Taliban and ordering their iliterate subordinate farmers to cultivate the opium fields. And of course I am simplfying here somewhat because I doubt there was ever a real interest by western powers to make Afghanistan a self sufficient country in the first place not depending on western military power.
 
Crni

Sure we had the cities only but those are where the biggest concentration of people are anyways.

I think getting Afghanistan self sufficient, at least the cities, was part of the goal even though we weren't doing a very good job of it. I think our leaders underestimated the amount of time and resources needed for that goal. The American public is also to blame as well as people from both parties talk a lot about hope and change. But the minute things start getting expensive and soldiers start to die, all that gets. forgotten.

Afghanistan being a poor country with no real resources to speak of only adds to that apathy.

If we only cared about Al Qaeda or extracting resources, we would have quit Afghanistan a long time ago. The issue here was Trump brokered a shitty and flawed deal and Biden just doubled down on it. Instead of leaving a smaller footprint like Syria or Iraq, we gave up.
 
DarkCorp said:
Crni

Sure we had the cities only but those are where the biggest concentration of people are anyways.

I think getting Afghanistan self sufficient, at least the cities, was part of the goal even though we weren't doing a very good job of it. I think our leaders underestimated the amount of time and resources needed for that goal. The American public is also to blame as well as people from both parties talk a lot about hope and change. But the minute things start getting expensive and soldiers start to die, all that gets. forgotten.

Afghanistan being a poor country with no real resources to speak of only adds to that apathy.

If we only cared about Al Qaeda or extracting resources, we would have quit Afghanistan a long time ago. The issue here was Trump brokered a shitty and flawed deal and Biden just doubled down on it. Instead of leaving a smaller footprint like Syria or Iraq, we gave up.
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Like I said, NATO forces made very similar mistakes like the Sovietst did. Which gives me the impression that there was either :

A) Never a real goal to make Afghanistan self sufficient - maybe out of fear an "independend" Afghanistan that's not depending on western troops might turn to China or even Russia or
B) An incredible level of incompetence from those in power in the western world.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was a combination of both.

*Edit
The funny part is that some are very quick to blame the Afghan forces and the Afghan people right now due to how quickly the Taliban took over. Many that actually fought in Afghanistan, including some conservative veterans like in the British Parliament, disagree though as they did fight next to Afghan soldiers quite regularly saying the Afghan soldiers have lost a lot more fighters in fighting the Taliban than the NATO forces did in the last 20 years. Some veterans say it was actually no surprise to them that it happend so quickly once the NATO troops moved out. It does seem that our leaderships simply had no interest in actually making the Afghan army a true fighting force.

DarkCorp said:
Afghanistan being a poor country with no real resources to speak of only adds to that apathy.
Click to expand...
Apparantly Afghanistan is rich in natural resources like copper and such. Or so I have read. Would explain why China is on such friendly terms with the Taliban right now. That and probably because they fear the Taliban might get interested in the oppressed muslims in China.
 
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I am more for the incompetence and bad luck route than intentional sabotage or apathy.

So one thing that is well known is the Afghan air power issue. The Afghanis were both trained to operate, maintain and utilize Russian helicopters effectively. These are what the government wanted. We were in the process of providing them when the Russians invaded Ukraine and we sanctioned them. This led to predictable supply problems as we could no longer purchase Russian military hardware. We could have gotten some from third countries like India but we didn't as Russia would still benefit. So in comes the buy American mentality but we didn't work hard enough to train the Afgjanis on the new equipment. The new Blackhawks also had a lower max ceiling of operation not as well suited in the high elevations of Afghanistan. Afghan mechanics didn't have the knowledge to maintain American aircraft and vehicles, which was all handled by contractors. Without proper airpower for both strike and logistics capabilities, the national defense forces were effectively neutered.

Then we have the Trump administration caving to the Talibans demand that Kabul be excluded from the talks, absolutely humiliating the government and reducing Ghanis prestige and image as a leader.

Again, we could have abrogated the Trump deal and left maybe 5000 troops on site for security with American airpower doing the heavy lifting. We could have still pivoted to asia while reducing but not eliminating our footprint in the ME.

So yeah we fucked up but it was due to shitty circumstances instead of an active desire to sabotage the formation of a strong and stable national government. Nation building is not easy and that is why I used the S. Korea example. Hell you could use China as a great example. A nation devastated by war and run by a nationalist government that was nominally in charge of the cities while warlords and communist insurgents ruled most of the majority of the countryside. All this while the nation was technically in a state of civil war.

What was different was China, N. Korea and S. Korea was worth the effort, with the west, China and SU pouring continuous resources into their respective allies.
 
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