Political Spergatory or How I Learned To Love /pol

[RangerBoo]

Sources please!

Shows how much you actually know about gays and how they have been treated trough out the history of the United States as it was normal to pretty much see every homosexual as (potential) pedophile

https://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Harvey_Milk_a_pedophile
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137713
Ooo... Not a good look for you.
Hey, lets take a look at what your beloved Socialists and Communists thought of gays.

 

[HurdyGurdyGonzo]

Harvey Milk was a pedophile that raped young teenage boys. Something that the Left tries to cover up. I don't know what you have been smoking but a lot of Conservative groups have been more open to LGBTQ people for a while now in the states. Fuck, the former ambassador for the Middle East under Trump was a gay man! You won't give him credit though for that since you have a foaming at the mouth hatred for Trump. View attachment 20646

I won't give Trump any credit because LGBTQ is perverted and has no place in a real conservative movement.

 

[Morgan_]

Pretty sure gay discrimination is still an issue (or recently resolved) in boy and girls scouts both with the instructors and the kids themselves. A lot of this comes from religious persecution from the conservatives largely in history and almost entirely in the present day. I mean we have Repub Politian's that believe in shock therapy to cure gayness in kids, I mean come on, wtf.....

 

[RangerBoo]

Pretty sure gay discrimination is still an issue (or recently resolved) in boy and girls scouts both with the instructors and the kids themselves. A lot of this comes from religious persecution from the conservatives largely in history and almost entirely in the present day. I mean we have Repub Politian's that believe in shock therapy to cure gayness in kids, I mean come on, wtf.....

That is in deep bubble fuck places in the ass end of nowhere. Those are the type of people who take QAnon seriously. It is not like these slack jawed idiots have any sort of power in culture, education, military, tech, ect like a certain other political group is.

 

[Morgan_]

I won't give Trump any credit because LGBTQ is perverted and has no place in a real conservative movement.

Amen brother.

 

[Crni Vuk]

https://www.answers.com/Q/Was_Harvey_Milk_a_pedophile
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137713
Ooo... Not a good look for you.

Why doese it not look good for me? The point I am trying to make here is that legislations meant to protect homosexuals have been often blocked by conservative law makers. This is not changed by the fact that Harvey Milk was a pervert who fell in love with a teenager that he shouldn't have.

Why are you dismissing stuff like this :

Overall, 83% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents say homosexuality should be accepted by society, while only 13% say it should be discouraged. The share of Democrats who say homosexuality should be accepted by society is up 20 points since 2006 and up from 54% who held this view in 1994.

Views on homosexuality, gender and religion | Pew Research Center

I seriously don't get it ...

Hey, lets take a look at what your beloved Socialists and Communists thought of gays.

Why? I never mentioned socialism, communism or their leaders and stance on homosexuality. This is literaly Whataboutism.

Again. What is your point here? Even if I agree with you ... which I do those quotes are disgusting and their views on that topic as well, does that change anything of what I said about conservatives and that they most of the time blocked legislation meant to protect homosexuals, like gay marriage?

I will ask you again. What relevance does Marx or Castros stance have on GAY MARRIAGE today when it came to US law makers like Ted Cruz who opposed it - and many other conservatives did as well?

What are you trying to achieve here?

 

[RangerBoo]

Why doese it not look good for me? The point I am trying to make here is that legislations meant to protect homosexuals have been often blocked by conservative law makers. This is not changed by the fact that Harvey Milk was a pervert who fell in love with a teenager that he shouldn't have.

Why are you dismissing stuff like this :

Overall, 83% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents say homosexuality should be accepted by society, while only 13% say it should be discouraged. The share of Democrats who say homosexuality should be accepted by society is up 20 points since 2006 and up from 54% who held this view in 1994.

Views on homosexuality, gender and religion | Pew Research Center

I seriously don't get it ...


Why? I never mentioned socialism, communism or their leaders and stance on homosexuality. This is literaly Whataboutism.

Again. What is your point here? Even if I agree with you ... which I do those quotes are disgusting and their views on that topic as well, does that change anything of what I said about conservatives and that they most of the time blocked legislation meant to protect homosexuals, like gay marriage?

I will ask you again. What relevance does Marx or Castros stance have on GAY MARRIAGE today when it came to US law makers like Ted Cruz who opposed it - and many other conservatives did as well?

What are you trying to achieve here?

You went on about "How evil the Conservatives are against gays!" while I just showed you that the Socialists and Communists have been just as bad if not worse. Stalin was known to gulag gays. There was a famous story about a gay communist writing to Stalin asking him if gays can serve the Communist Party and Stalin never got back to him. Instead he just filed his letter as "Idiot and Degenerate". Che was famous for personally killing many gay men at gun point. There are pictures of that. Moral here is don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

 

[Morgan_]

Christian conservatives have mass slaughtered gays for millennia and written about how they should be killed or are lesser in every Abrahamic religion. Forced some to undergo forced conversion that have killed some of our greatest minds like Alan Turing. The left over of these attitudes and policies are still upheld by conservatives.

Simple as.

 

[Crni Vuk]

You went on about "How evil the Conservatives are against gays!" while I just showed you that the Socialists and Communists have been just as bad if not worse.

I understand that and their actions are wrong. What more do you want to hear from me?

But what I don't know is why you bring up that point, I am trying to understand your reasoning here. Are you trying to tell me a conservative for example is allowed to steal a car when a socialist does it? Is a conservative allowed to be a racist when a communist is one?

If we would be talking about the concentration camps in Germany and how terrible it was for the jewish population would this be changed by the fact that jews also ended up in Gulags and that Stalin killed jewish doctors in Moscow because of his incredible paranoia?

Aslk your self this. Is that seriously the kind of argument where having right now? And what point would it serve when we're having a conservation about gay rights of the recent history of the United States and that legislations meant to protect gay people have been often - even to this day - blocked by conservatives?

You want me to admitt that many socialists have been really bad and terrible people, don't you? Well. You're right. They have been. Stalin is for me as bad like Hitler and I wish both wouldn't have existed. Can we now move on?

Stalin was known to gulag gays. There was a famous story about a gay communist writing to Stalin asking him if gays can serve the Communist Party and Stalin never got back to him. Instead he just filed his letter as "Idiot and Degenerate". Che was famous for personally killing many gay men at gun point. There are pictures of that. Moral here is don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

What has this to do with conservative legislators that blocked gay marriage?

 

[RangerBoo]

Christian conservatives have mass slaughtered gays for millennia and written about how they should be killed or are lesser in every Abrahamic religion.

Are you saying that Islam is based? Because most Muslims still believe that in the Middle East. Truth be told the West is lucky that they went through the Enlightenment or what is better known as The Age of Reason. It was due to that that the West isn't a religion run shit hole like the Middle East.

What has this to do with conservative legislators that blocked gay marriage?

Just showing that the Left side of the political spectrum have done things just as bad if not worse and that they shouldn't take the moral high ground.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Just showing that the Left side of the political spectrum have done things just as bad if not worse and that they shouldn't take the moral high ground.

I am a leftist but I am not a socialist and/or communist nor do I base my moral and ethical values on what people said which have been dead for 200 years. What is more important? Recent history or old history? To me this is important on a personal level due to my sexual orientation. Because when it comes to my personal rights, like me and my liberties and freedom then I can not trust conservatives, as legislators(!), to either represent, defend or improve them. Because recent historical records show that when the shit hits the fan they will pander to conservative fringe ideas, block legislations and assume christian right wing talking points - at least in the question on sexuality and gay rights.

And nothing that you bring up about Stalin, Castro, Marx changes that for me today. Because it is the reality that we live in today and not the Soviet Union, 18th century Britain or what ever.

When I look at the last 40 years of conservatism, which is pretty much the timeframe that I have existed so far, than their track record of actually fighting for my rights ... is poor. Like really poor. And now you want me to trust them. Based on what exactly? That socialists are assholes?

I personaly assume the high ground here because when it comes to conservative talking points doing so is easy as the track record of the conservative movement here is ... not good.

Here is the thing. Let us say you would be a black woman living in 1845. And someone would ask you, who would you rather support if you had to, Republicans or Democrats? Your answer would most proably be, Republicans. Even though knowing that there are issues with both you would see your best chance for equality with Republicans. This was the rational motivation behind Frederick Douglass decision.

And now imagine you would be a lesbian woman living in 1985 in San Francisco. And someone would ask you again, who would you rather support if you had to? And most likely your answer would be Democrat because again ... your chance for change is the most likely with that party.

And this has reasons and you're either waving them away or not acknowledging them or answering with whataboutism creating straw man.

 

[RangerBoo]

Good riddance to Mr. "I want to understand White rage". Leave your post and go either work for some deep state glowie lobbying firm or become some guest host for CNN or MSNBC. You are just as much to blame for this Milley! Fuck you!

 

[TheGM]

Christian conservatives have mass slaughtered gays for millennia

Ah yes the Fagpocalypse of 984, 1214, 1469 and 1753.

 

[RangerBoo]

Ah yes the Fagpocalypse of 984, 1214, 1469 and 1753.

They seem to conveniently forget that the Democrats were largely against gay marriage until 2012 when the Supreme Court were like, "Yeah, we see no problem with gays getting married". Both Obama and Hillary stated for the longest time that they were against gays marrying. They even said that in their 2008 campaigns. But hey, the modern Left are pure and the campions of human rights and not power hungry opportunists that look for convenient ways to get more power.

 

[Morgan_]

Ah yes the Fagpocalypse of 984, 1214, 1469 and 1753.

You don't need a specific year, just a centuries long slow burn.

 

[SquidWard]

as long you leave out personal insults just saying.

You think that'll ever happen? Ha!

Da fug has that to do with me though? Just because I made a joke about conservatives (which has some historic relevance) it's suddenly about leftists being homophobic?

Crni you don't understand. You made a joke about conservatives. Time for your personal attacks and anecdotal evidence!

Pretty sure gay discrimination is still an issue (or recently resolved) in boy and girls scouts both with the instructors and the kids themselves. A lot of this comes from religious persecution from the conservatives largely in history and almost entirely in the present day. I mean we have Repub Politian's that believe in shock therapy to cure gayness in kids, I mean come on, wtf.....

You failed to remember that some conservatives might be gay though. GG libtard. Try again. Destroyed with (anecdotal) facts and (shaky) logic.

It's not really a secret that the American Democrats aren't left. It's really funny to see people who support the right attack "the left" when they're inches away from each other on the political spectrum. Some of the things Ranger says is true. Problem is, any actual leftist does not support the Democratic party without reservations because the Democratic party is just a nicer Republican party who spends money inefficiently. Yes, they're first to accept gay marriage, human rights, etc. but Republicans do end up following soon after. They want you to think they are so different but they're fairly similar. The reason people vote for Democrats is because they don't believe they could effectively vote for third parties without that vote just being a lacking vote for the major opposition to Republicans. They've got the system set up quite well to be honest. Exxon funds politicians in both parties. Makes you do a think.

 

[Morgan_]

It's not really a secret that the American Democrats aren't left. It's really funny to see people who support the right attack "the left" when they're inches away from each other on the political spectrum.

This^^^

I doubt this will ever be acknowledged though as pretty much all the anti left talking points will be instantly blasted to dust. If anything I'd be a centrist if I were in Europe. They already have many of the things I admire and most of my positions would be maintaining what is already in place or incremental updates. I'm left wing in the US though as that is the only way to get any of these things. Like healthcare or education reform.

Once we get there I'll be much more centrist. I'm just stuck with Dems in the US since it's a binary system. Just gonna have to vote to reshape them further left in this case.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Yes, they're first to accept gay marriage, human rights, etc. but Republicans do end up following soon after. They want you to think they are so different but they're fairly similar.

In many ways you have absolutely a point here and don't get me wrong I am not disagreeing really with you. But let me give a different perspective in it when I say, for many minorities it does make a difference though who they are voting for if they decide to vote. Democrats and Republicans are both the big-business party. That's all well and understood. But homosexuals, can only talk for them, are not so stupid that they don't realise that you have assholes on that side of the political spectrum as well.

But at the end of the day - see my comment about Frederick Douglass - you have to ask your self, with which side do I have realistically speaking the highest chance to get even the slightest form of change or progress done? In 1850 that was the republican party. Today it is the democratic party. That is of course only on the issue of equality here. Or we wouldn't see such a drastic difference in voters between democrats and republicans. Minorities know that Democrats are shit. And the poorer people are the less likely are they to vote for either side. And that for good reasons. But we minorities are not so stupid that we don't understand the dog whistles from the conservatives.

*EDit
Or to say it that way, Democrats don't care for us they just want our votes. Repulicans though also don't care fur us but also want the votes of the people that feel homosexuals need to be "healed".

Now you go and tell me which side is the better option.

 

[SquidWard]

In 1850 that was the republican party.

Oh god don't say that. It'll bring up the "remember when Dems were racist?!?!?" replies even though it's been almost 200 years.

I definitely know what you're saying and agree. I just hate that it's seemingly so divided when hilariously enough you'll watch the Republican party start doing things the Democrats were trying to do 20-40 years beforehand.

Ask a communist to tell you what they hate about capitalism and they'll point out the worst aspects. Ask a capitalist to tell you what they hate about socialism/communism and they'll describe capitalism.
Any pro-capitalist person saying that companies who are denying you service/trade because you aren't wearing a mask or are unvaccinated is unconstitutional is goofy. Do companies reserve the right to refuse anyone service or not? I remember the gay marriage wedding cake debacle not even a whole decade ago. Those on the "left" were saying that the company should not have the right to refuse making a wedding cake for a gay couple. Those on the "right" maintained that it was a company's right to deny service to anyone for any reason. Which is the law as far as I'm aware, as long as the refusal is not on the grounds of discrimination. But when you say that, it's easy to say, "Well, I just didn't feel like it. Or I didn't like the idea they had about how they wanted me to make the cake." or any plethora of excuses.
What about employment at will proponents who are suddenly against your employers requiring you to wear a mask and/or get a vaccination?
That one right leaning lady was against paid maternity leave because she didn't think companies should have to pay for your "decision to have children" but when she had kids she suddenly realized why people were asking for such a thing. Shocker.

It blows my fucking mind how people cannot empathize, sympathize, or just relate to other humans until they're put in the same shitty situations. It's just easier to assume anyone receiving government assistance is a lazy bum who is purposely taking malicious advantage of a system. A majority of people on food stamps and WIC in the USA do not want to be. I would not be shocked if the same was true for unemployment or disability. Because you know what, work sucks we all know that. But after awhile, being sedentary sucks too. It deteriorates you in many ways and causes shit like depression. Who the fuck wants to be inactive and sad the rest of their life?

As much as I don't believe in horseshoe theory, I don't have trouble seeing how it started.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Ask a communist to tell you what they hate about capitalism and they'll point out the worst aspects. Ask a capitalist to tell you what they hate about socialism/communism and they'll describe capitalism.

Dude. I love you. You should be a comedian.