RPGs for the stupid

[Death_Claw]

I can't play through CT ever again (only done through 3 times). After Torment, Fallout, and hell even BG2, CT seems so dull. Replayability: zip.

So true, I can't play console RPGs since Fallout. I always would take long brakes when I couldn't avoid those times where you need to spend a couple of hours leveling up to go to a dungeon, but after playing PC RPGs I simply can't stand to do this. It's really a shame since I had a great time playing FF V, VI and CT. As linear as they are they have really great characters and storylines under the hours of fighting endless monsters. The only console RPG I finished after fallout was FF I, but I had to basically drag myself to playing it again. Even FF Tactics that has some great TB battles wasn't able to keep my interest, I must have started and stopped playing it like 3-4 times...

 

[Jabbapop]

there were a few 'funny' things about gothic 2 (i've never played gothic 1, regrettably). notably, the lock picking system was really like a mini-game. IIRC (groggle, i'm using one of those acronyms!), you 'learn' the skill, then depending on your dexterity, you're less prone to break the pick during the picking, which consists of guessing the right sequence of left turn/right turn.

the last 'island' was kind of a downer. it was just a nonstop linear slashfest. i guess pacing wise it kind of makes sense (you know, all has finally culminated into one final battle.) it just seemed kind of rushed, since it lacked much of the npc interaction.

I kind of liked the voice acting, even if it was a little cheesy at times. i mean, what do you expect? award winning stuff? for a game, i thought the fact that every npc was voiceacted (although not neccesarily each one originally) was a nice touch. ooh and the music! really, the entire atmosphere of the game struck me as 'different' from most games that i've played, but in a good way.

also, to arcanum, i was kind of irked that the stupid dwarf you get as a party member in tarant, the one 'searching' for his heritage, doesn't mention a word about it when you enter black mountain cave. grrr.


(EDIT: I'm sorry I killed the thread. )

 

[zioburosky13]

there were a few 'funny' things about gothic 2 (i've never played gothic 1, regrettably). notably, the lock picking system was really like a mini-game. IIRC (groggle, i'm using one of those acronyms!), you 'learn' the skill, then depending on your dexterity, you're less prone to break the pick during the picking, which consists of guessing the right sequence of left turn/right turn.

the last 'island' was kind of a downer. it was just a nonstop linear slashfest. i guess pacing wise it kind of makes sense (you know, all has finally culminated into one final battle.) it just seemed kind of rushed, since it lacked much of the npc interaction.

I kind of liked the voice acting, even if it was a little cheesy at times. i mean, what do you expect? award winning stuff? for a game, i thought the fact that every npc was voiceacted (although not neccesarily each one originally) was a nice touch. ooh and the music! really, the entire atmosphere of the game struck me as 'different' from most games that i've played, but in a good way.

also, to arcanum, i was kind of irked that the stupid dwarf you get as a party member in tarant, the one 'searching' for his heritage, doesn't mention a word about it when you enter black mountain cave. grrr.


(EDIT: I'm sorry I killed the thread. )

I love Fallout. I love Arcanum. And I love Morrowind. Now I'm downloading Gothic 2 Eng. demo.

 

[Per]

I love Fallout. I love Arcanum. And I love Morrowind. Now I'm downloading Gothic 2 Eng. demo.

It's a good thing you quoted Jabbapop's whole post so we got a context along with that long-awaited info.

 

[Tagaziel]

Why some of you bag Gothic 1? It's a great game, awesomely replayable and gives you the possibility to screw over your employers!

Oh, and think of the world under the Barrier as post-apoc - after all, the activation of the barrier was an apocalypse for it's inhabitants - they would never leave it, forced to survive on their own.

And the armor.... most made from scavenged materials, some makeshift, they are great. and all tgose 'obsolete' items building the atmosphere. Like the utensils, the candlesticks, plates, hammers, saws, cups, ruins etc.

 

[k-7]

@Morrowind

I think you people forget a important point. This game has an integraded Level Editor for simply editing the whole world.
It´s incredible easy to add new weapons, armors, quests, npc,
skins, critters,..., and so on. The plot is long, i know and sometimes
its hard to find out where exactly you´ve to go but while you search for one quest you will find twenty another and it´s never really boring because u´ve something to do all the time. I really loved Morrowind and played it for months (not as long as Fallout, but longer than all other rpgs) and i think the attitude "boring" isn´t the right one

 

[Ratty Sr.]

I think you people forget a important point. This game has an integraded Level Editor for simply editing the whole world.
It´s incredible easy to add new weapons, armors, quests, npc,
skins, critters,..., and so on. The plot is long, i know and sometimes
its hard to find out where exactly you´ve to go but while you search for one quest you will find twenty another and it´s never really boring because u´ve something to do all the time. I really loved Morrowind and played it for months (not as long as Fallout, but longer than all other rpgs) and i think the attitude "boring" isn´t the right one

While it is true that Morrowind comes with a powerful world editor kit, I don't see how that helps alleviate the fact that the game is an apotheosis of tedium. Neverwinter Nights comes with a toolkit, too, but the SP campaign still fucking sucks. To address your other point, the entertainment value of a game isn't measured by the number of quests (in fact, being constantly bombarded by new side quests means the game lacks focus and proper story progression and is a serious design flaw), but by the amount of effort that went into designing them. What's the point of having two hundred quests when 95% of them boil down to the same go to location/kill all monsters/go back to town/collect reward&exp routine. Boring cookie-cutter landscape doesn't help things either (though Morrowind certainly has better and more imagintive area design than Daggerfall). Honestly, if you played Morrowind that long and enjoyed it, congratulations - you are easily entertained.

 

[Roshambo]

"OMFG! Race mods ands teh Lara Craft mods! REPLAYORABILITORZ!!!"

 

[k-7]

I think you people forget a important point. This game has an integraded Level Editor for simply editing the whole world.
It´s incredible easy to add new weapons, armors, quests, npc,
skins, critters,..., and so on. The plot is long, i know and sometimes
its hard to find out where exactly you´ve to go but while you search for one quest you will find twenty another and it´s never really boring because u´ve something to do all the time. I really loved Morrowind and played it for months (not as long as Fallout, but longer than all other rpgs) and i think the attitude "boring" isn´t the right one

While it is true that Morrowind comes with a powerful world editor kit, I don't see how that helps alleviate the fact that the game is an apotheosis of tedium. Neverwinter Nights comes with a toolkit, too, but the SP campaign still fucking sucks. To address your other point, the entertainment value of a game isn't measured by the number of quests (in fact, being constantly bombarded by new side quests means the game lacks focus and proper story progression and is a serious design flaw), but by the amount of effort that went into designing them. What's the point of having two hundred quests when 95% of them boil down to the same go to location/kill all monsters/go back to town/collect reward&exp routine. Boring cookie-cutter landscape doesn't help things either (though Morrowind certainly has better and more imagintive area design than Daggerfall). Honestly, if you played Morrowind that long and enjoyed it, congratulations - you are easily entertained.

Well, you dont get my construction kit point. Maybe the standard plot sucks (i think this is subjective, beause i liked the story. It was a long way to play through it, but it was cool ) but that is not the real problem because lets imagine that bethesda finnish fo3. Let´s imagine they screw the story up, than i can give you a guarantee that the community will build a NEW Fallout! The only reason why there´s no FO2 Community Expansion Pack is because modding this game is a pain in the ass. When FO2 had a Construiction Kit like Morrowind had, than we won´t need a Fallout 3. Back to Morrowind, when it bores you can download a heckofalotta mods to make the game more fun (i did the same, because without u cannot play it ) But that the standardstory sucks is no argument, because the mods are a part of that game. Bethesda don´t gave us the Construction Kit for no reason.

Well, sry for my crap english but your SpellChecker told me that i don´t make a single mistake, and it cannot control grammer ^^

 

[FeelTheRads]

So, to that reasoning I should buy any crap game out there that has a good "construction kit", because someone might do a good mod?

Sorry, I prefer to play the original game and not mods.

But that the standardstory sucks is no argument, because the mods are a part of that game. Bethesda don´t gave us the Construction Kit for no reason.

Of course not. They gave it for mindless sheep like you who would buy the game because someone made a "kewl" mod for it. *cough*See Counter-Strike*cough*

 

[Ekarderif]

So you're saying Counter-Strike is better than Half-Life?

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

I fail to see how Baldur's Gate 2 was such a terrible game? The quests were interesting, the dialogue fit the storyline, and some of the locations were fun to play in (Ust Natha for example?). Granted, some parts of it seemed stupid, such as the Mage Madhouse, but overall it was a fine game. I don't see how it deserves to be derided like some other games here apparently have been.

 

[alec]

also, to arcanum, i was kind of irked that the stupid dwarf you get as a party member in tarant, the one 'searching' for his heritage, doesn't mention a word about it when you enter black mountain cave. grrr.

Well, maybe that's because Magnus isn't a member of the Black Mountain clan... Ever thought about that possibility?

In fact, Magnus' clan is the Iron Clan. When you enter that cave with Magnus (and preferably with Thorvald as well), you'll be treated to some extra dialogue.

 

[k-7]

So, to that reasoning I should buy any crap game out there that has a good "construction kit", because someone might do a good mod?

Sorry, I prefer to play the original game and not mods.

Did i said that? Morrowind isn´t a crap game, but with mods its more enjoyable! When you prefer to play the original than play the original. A game wich is good modded is better anyway and a good construction kit just helps to keep a game alife. Like I said, Wehn FO2 would have a CK we wouldn´t need a damn 3rd part.

Of course not. They gave it for mindless sheep like you who would buy the game because someone made a "kewl" mod for it. *cough*See Counter-Strike*cough*

You want to compare Counterstrike with Half Life? Boy, CS is MP and HL is SP. HL1 had a really cool SP but the MPDM sucked.
CS is better in multiplayer but not the one for me, i don´t like waitng when i die, so my favorite HL Mod was Team Fortress Classic but however the community made Mods where incredible! They where not just mods but new games, so what you wanna tell me with you crap? That youre the best one in
scrabbling into raddys butt? You cannot tell me that a construction kit is bader than no construction kit. And you cannot tell me that you know a game before you buy it. Countersrike is buyable as an Retail Version, so you don´t buy Half Life to play a Mod but Counterstrike to play Counterstrike OR Half Life WITH Counterstrike that you don´t have to download a huge mod.
Maybe you start to think a little more before you criticise stuff you don´t know a shit about mindless one. As i said, CS ins´t just a Mod, CS isn´t compareable to Half Life, that are too different games!

@Baldurs Gate

Baldurs Gate was really funny, but more because it looked really cool with all that spells and stuff. The plot is a little too straight but there are cool mods too for this game

@Neverwinter Nights

I buyed it because i thought it rocks, and yes, the Single Player is the biggest crap in the world since the dark ages, but the multiplayer rocked! I played on an RPG Server with a nice modded world, so i still don´t get your point. The engine was good, just the
SP sucked, and there was an easy to use construction kit. Thats means, the game is good because the people make it like they want!


Its easy to understand because just look at the 3k Fallout3 suggestions Threads: "i want this" "i want that" "i want everything" "bla", and no. You never can get fully satisfied from Fallout 3 because there WILL be things wich dosen´t make it into the game. So, the Construction Kit will than be your friend and i know see a CEP for FO3 (CEP= Community Expansion Pack, like Neverwinter Nights one). And you will buy Fo3 even when the story sucks, because you know that you just have to kill the crap out of the game and add the stuff you liked too see in fo3.

 

[FeelTheRads]

A game wich is good modded is better anyway and a good construction kit just helps to keep a game alife.

A good game will stay alive without any mod. You can't claim a game is kept alive by a mod. It's not the game you keep alive, but the goddamn engine.

Like I said, Wehn FO2 would have a CK we wouldn´t need a damn 3rd part.

Bullshit. FO1 and FO2 are still very much alive and I'd play them anytime instead of a console parody made by some random company, which just happens to be Bethesda.

Counter-Strike Vs. Half-Life bullshit

Whether CS has a retail version or not it's still a mod and that's what it will always be. A mod for which people bought Half-Life.
I have not compared Half-Life and CS. I only gave them as example. Maybe if you'll learn some basic English before posting you'll understand, because it seems you're not only unable to write it, but you can't read it either.

@Baldurs Gate

Baldurs Gate was really funny, but more because it looked really cool with all that spells and stuff. The plot is a little too straight but there are cool mods too for this game Wink

@Neverwinter Nights

I buyed it because i thought it rocks, and yes, the Single Player is the biggest crap in the world since the dark ages, but the multiplayer rocked! I played on an RPG Server with a nice modded world, so i still don´t get your point. The engine was good, just the
SP sucked, and there was an easy to use construction kit. Thats means, the game is good because the people make it like they want!

Will you stop the "I have a good mod for it so the game is good" crap?

Hey, I know. I have a movie editing software. I'll edit all the movies I have and then they will all be good movies. Heck, I only need to cut out the parts I don't like and maybe insert some lesbian porn here and there. And it's much easier than modding a game!

 

[Roshambo]

I fail to see how Baldur's Gate 2 was such a terrible game?

Comparatively, BioWare was still piddling around the old Gary Gygax style of design, even by the time Troika made Gygax's work a bit more interesting (the dungeons back then were not too imaginative) than what BioWare made to appeal to those who like to passively watch combat.

The quests were interesting,

That really, really is subjective.

the dialogue fit the storyline,

1. Fight.
2. Goodbye.
3. Obviously correct answer that leads to more information.

Change the order of the above around, and you have BioWare's writing style. Not to mention, most of the characters in the game needed a Prozac and a bullet in the skull.

and some of the locations were fun to play in (Ust Natha for example?).

Well, too bad the rest of the game wasn't as appealing.

Granted, some parts of it seemed stupid, such as the Mage Madhouse,

*twitch*

but overall it was a fine game. I don't see how it deserves to be derided like some other games here apparently have been.

Some of the locations are great. Some of the quests are, too. Many of the items have had good work and effort put into them. It's the rest that really just drags that down, on top of the general incompetence that birthed the flaws of the Infinity Engine and never really bothered to fix them. Judging by NWN, they would have never cared to.

Did i said that? Morrowind isn´t a crap game, but with mods its more enjoyable!

Diagnosis: Munchkin

When you prefer to play the original than play the original.

I am not going to, nor am I going to play a roulette of wasting my time. I have looked over Morrowind mods. Most of them are not that impressive nor worth downloading them for what little they offer. Some are. After browsing through the 50th page of Laura Craft mods, it gets rather sickening, even if you go by rating.

It also often means that the developers themselves went by the limitations of the construction kit tools that the module creators will use, and therefore it is crappy and simplistic in terms of design in an engine. Case in point, Morrowind, Darkstone, and NWN.

A game wich is good modded is better anyway and a good construction kit just helps to keep a game alife.

Not really. Fallout hasn't had a construction kit for a long time, and it's still alove. I wonder why. Actually, I know why, but I'm vertain that you have no clue.

Like I said, Wehn FO2 would have a CK we wouldn´t need a damn 3rd part.

No, of course not, when we have thousands of people creating stupid mods and Fallout 2 would have been more craptacular.

Please, any more straw man arguments you want to toss up, keep them to yourself.

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

Glad to see someone hated the Magehouse as much as I did, heh.


To be fair, this whole thread is pretty subjective as to which games are for the "stupid".

The thing I enjoyed most about Baldur's Gate 2 is that they took the effort to actually put depth to the description of quite a bit of the in-game items and locations. Clicking on the dozens of books for example will give you some storyline pulled out of the Forgotten Realms storyline. Looking around at some of the locations will pull up a paragraph or two of description. I will grant that the Infinity Engine wasn't stellar, but for a game that I got for 20 bucks or so, it was a worthwhile buy and killed time. Certainly it shouldnt be thrown up there with things like most of the Final Fantasy series. That is just heinous!


NWN just sucked, period. I don't think I have anything worthwhile to defend it with.

 

[Lord 342]

I agree with Fireblade and even with Rosh to some extent, although I don't *hate* BGII, simply because I accept it for what it is. It's D&D on the PC. Very, very good D&D, but it will never rise above the level of D&D and in some ways will be very predictable. The combat is what it is. It would be better turn-based (I leave all the scripts off and usually take "turns" telling each person what to do) but you take what you are given sometimes.

I've just started playing NWN so I've yet to form an oppinion on it. I bought it at a deep discount which is how I buy all CRPGs since I tend to measure them by Fallout/Fallout 2. At least BGII has a story (say what you will about it, but it's a *Story*; it's explained to you and shit like that, and it has real characters and such) and some freedom of choice and nonlinearity for the most part. Dare I bring up "Diablo"? The ultimate "pseudo-RPG"... I have a friend who plays it all the time... It's just horrible; it seems to consist of making a character from three classes ripped off from D&D, wandering into some dungeon, and clicking on things 'till they fall over. Lather, rinse, repeat. Yawn. I've seen deeper RPGs on a VAX 11/780.

Honestly though I think the big problem is what I would term "adventure" games getting billed as RPGs, since the line between the two is easily blurred by clever marketing. Frex "The Legend of Zelda" on the old NES is a classic and an excellent game, but it and any of its successors are not RPGs. Final Fantasy is the ultimate travesty of the RPG genre since in spite of all the RPG trappings like a party, stats, level, and even turns, it's still an adventure game just like Zelda with all that crap welded on.

Fallout and Fallout 2 really stay true to the idea of "RPG" more so than any other game I've played. Below it you have things like Baldur's Gate II; very good games in many ways but flawed in their own way; you could very easily argue that Fallout/2 was so ruined by bugs that it spoiled the experience and that's a valid oppinion, but it's just an oppinion.

 

[Ekarderif]

Torment is technically D&D as well... It managed to rise far above.

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

Planescape and Forgotten Realms are also vastly different locations and possess unique stories to them. Planescape, literally, can include almost anything to the imagination.