Scores dead as Israel bombs Gaza

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Oh yes, that makes perfect sense and completely justifies their actions :roll: . Attack area that is one of the most densely populated areas in the earth,causing hundreds of deaths and 1700 wounded, and then stop medical supplies, and then turn down humanitarian cease-fire demanded by outside powers.

Unintentional, perhaps, but necessary ? no.
Mossad, and spec-ops could have done the same trick,if they really had to kill people, and with a lot smaller loss of lives.

I cant just write all of the reports off as lies and propaganda.
 
Who voted Hamas in to power? Who was shelling Israeli civilians for weeks before they attacked. I feel bad for the children and truly innocent but they are bringing this unto themselves. No way Mossad or spec ops could do the same.

Patton89 said:
Oh yes, that makes perfect sense and completely justifies their actions :roll: . Attack area that is one of the most densely populated areas in the earth,causing hundreds of deaths and 1700 wounded, and then stop medical supplies, and then turn down humanitarian cease-fire demanded by outside powers.

Unintentional, perhaps, but necessary ? no.
Mossad, and spec-ops could have done the same trick,if they really had to kill people, and with a lot smaller loss of lives.

I cant just write all of the reports off as lies and propaganda.
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Patton89 said:
Mossad, and spec-ops could have done the same trick,if they really had to kill people, and with a lot smaller loss of lives.

I cant just write all of the reports off as lies and propaganda.
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Risk Israeli life by putting boots on the ground in enemy territory? Why in the world would they want to do that?
They were not just targeting people, they wanted as much destruction as possible to be done to Hamas infrastructure.

This was a show of force and flexing of muscle, Its just like the former Israeli General said after this happened,

"Israel wants to bring about a situation where Hamas understands that it is not worthwhile to fire rockets at Israel, that Israel carries a heavy stick,".

Of course the rockets will never stop being fired, I think the message is clear however that Israel carries quite a heavy stick.
 
Dal1as said:
The Palestinians are experts on propoganda and faking death. Their was even pictures proving this a few years ago with a boy shown dead, was shown weeks later trying to setup another fake death scene.
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Pallywood is some funny shit indeed. :lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoIYFvuFFWs part 1

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=566_1230728771&c=1 part 2



"Pallywood I Palestine Fake News and Israeli Attacks 2/2"


The term "Pallywood" refers to the staging of scenes by Palestinian journalists in order to present the Palestinians as hapless victims of Israeli aggression. They are able to succeed in this endeavor in large part due to the credulity and eagerness of the Western press to present these images, which reinforce the image of the Palestinian David struggling valiantly against the overpowering Israe More..li Goliath. Pallywood has led to astonishing lapses in Western journalistic standards in which badly staged scenes regularly appear on the news as "real events."
For those interested in an in-depth look into how propaganda is really produced and created, this is a must see."



edit: I laughed HARD when they dropped the "corpse" off the table and he climbs back on it.
 
It does not justify this at all, nor make it anymore logical.
Even IF the people voted for hamas, it doesnt justify these excessive measures. Air strikes caused the deaths of the civilians.
If the targets are so close to civilians, why attack them in the first place ?

You guys have no problem with this causing more deaths then the rockets could have done, fine. Be unlogical, and think that 4 deaths can somehow justify almost 400 dead, and 1700 wounded, and the stopping of humanitarian aid to the area.

This operation is mostly useless. It accomplishes nothing productive in the longer run, and this operation just creates more hatred, more hamas supporters, and even more enemies to israel.
Even the short term usefullness of this operation can be questioned.

Even if SOME FEW of the deaths are fake, i dont think that they can fake 400 deaths and over thousand wounded.
 
Patton89 said:
ted for hamas, it doesnt justify these excessive measures. Air strikes caused the deaths of the civilians.
If the targets are so close to civilians, why attack them in the first place ?
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Because that is where the militant Muslim groups conduct operations? Tell Hamas to engage Israel on open ground away from civilian targets.

Yeah... funny I know.


Patton89 said:
You guys have no problem with this causing more deaths then the rockets could have done, fine. Be unlogical, and think that 4 deaths can somehow justify almost 400 dead, and 1700 wounded, and the stopping of humanitarian aid to the area.
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Once more the majority of these deaths were HAMAS security forces. For an Israeli operation the civi body count has been amazingly low.

Unless you have issues with Israel engaging the people who were firing rockets and mortars at them?


Patton89 said:
It accomplishes nothing productive in the longer run.
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And Hamas not renewing the cease fire and firing rockets into Israel again is productive? They gave the Israelis the excuse they needed to drop the bombs.

You really should watch the Pallywood videos, there are some hilarious things in it.


"Gaza officials put the death toll at more than 390 dead and 1,600 wounded. Hamas says some 200 uniformed members of Hamas security forces have been killed, and the U.N. says at least 60 Palestinian civilians have died."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Good numbers imo.


Also would you mind answering my question I asked earlier?

The one of how you think Hamas and other such groups would use the advanced weapons technology Israel possesses if it was made available to them?
 
Bal-Sagoth said:
And Hamas not renewing the cease fire and firing rockets into Israel again is productive?
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Uh, and what exactly would you do if you were walled in and blockaded, with only a bare minimum of food and medicine getting through? Agreed, it's not productive to fire rockets at civilians, but it's obvious that the people in Gaza are desperate. And by the way, Hamas would have renewed the cease fire if Israel had agreed to lift the blockade.
 
fedaykin said:
Bal-Sagoth said:
And Hamas not renewing the cease fire and firing rockets into Israel again is productive?
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Uh, and what exactly would you do if you were walled in and blockaded, with only a bare minimum of food and medicine getting through?
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Start swimming? :lol:


If I was tired,hungry, and trapped in the back of a bears cave. I know I would not grab a stick and start beating the bear telling me to let me out.

I am not criticizing them, dont get me wrong. If they feel shooting those pathetic little rockets(that most of the time are about as dangerous as a store bought firework) will help them in the long run then all the power to them!

For every Israeli that dies the enemies of Israel will suffer several times as much.

Hell just look at the 2006 Lebanon numbers.


Casualties and losses

Israel Defense Forces:

121 killed
(including 2 captured bodies)
628 wounded[8]


Israeli civilians:

44 dead[11][12]
1,489 wounded[13]



Hezbollah militia:
250-700 dead[9]
13 captured[10] (9 released)

Amal militia: 17 dead
LCP militia: 12 dead
PFLP-GC militia: 2 dead


Lebanese citizens:
1,191[14] dead
4,409 injured[14]



Me thinks Hamas and other such groups need to find a heavier stick.
 
What is your point? Israel could have lifted the blockade, but didn't, because it wants to see the Palestinians suffer. As you can see, the "we're just defending ourselves" justification works well for both sides. An alternative would have been to lift the blockade, as Hamas requested, and the cease-fire would have been renewed. But no, Israel wouldn't have that!
 
fedaykin said:
the "we're just defending ourselves" justification works well for both sides.
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I most definitely agree with that. Despite the fact I support Israel and its actions 100% I will not say I do not believe they are not without fault.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.

"Hamas denies Senegal remarks on Gaza ceasefire"

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4BS33E20081229


I would think if Israel is ever willing to lift the blockade Hamas should count its lucky stars and adhere to what ever terms Israel sets fourth.
 
Someone would prove me wrong but from what I gather in history, weren't the palastinians royally screwed in the beginning. It seems as if the palistinians had their home forceably cut in half and part of it given to a total stranger.

I know I would be pissed if that happened to me.
 
Bal-Sagoth said:
....
Me thinks Hamas and other such groups need to find a heavier stick.
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I hope not ...

NuclearEnds-X.gif


I know its Iran, but I think you get the point
 
DarkCorp said:
Someone would prove me wrong but from what I gather in history, weren't the palastinians royally screwed in the beginning. It seems as if the palistinians had their home forceably cut in half and part of it given to a total stranger.

I know I would be pissed if that happened to me.
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Actually Palestinians are transplants from surrounding countries for the most part. True Palestinians if you omit Rome were migrants and never truly had any set land.

They're being used as pawns.
 
DexterMorgan said:
Luckily, the only nuclear weapons in the Middle East are in the hands of completely rational and democratic (sic!) Israelis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
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"Never Again"

They also are believed to have stores of chemical and biological weapons, so do not forget to throw those in there to be used in a "last stand" situation.

What exactly is your problem with Israel having a deterrence policy?

Also if Iran or anyone else was ever silly enough to detonate a nuclear bomb inside Israel we would all have much bigger issues than this age old Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

That action would have the potential to bring about a new World War.



DexterMorgan said:
Yes, they even got a Jewish agency to do their marketing for them!

www.btselem.org
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Did you at least watch the Pallywood video? I am not saying all the civilian deaths are fake. There is collateral damage in war and always will be, no one is denying that.

It is interesting however to see how these big news agencies buy these fake scenes and are ignorant of it being staged or just shrug it off and only go for good ratings.


edit:

:clap:

"Hamas Leader Killed in Israeli Strike"

"Nizar Rayan, a senior Hamas commander who had supported renewing suicide bombings within Israel, is assassinated in an Israeli air attack on his home."

http://news.aol.com/?feature=232890
 
I can't believe there are some idiots that are aware of the sitcuation, but still think Israel's (or should I say Bush' personal) attacks are acceptable! I can't understand the logic in "hey, let's get Hamas by killing hundreds of innocent civilians!" Man, I can't wait the day when Bush gives the presidency to Obama.
 
Puokki said:
I can't believe there are some idiots that are aware of the sitcuation, but still think Israel's (or should I say Bush' personal) attacks are acceptable! I can't understand the logic in "hey, let's get Hamas by killing hundreds of innocent civilians!" Man, I can't wait the day when Bush gives the presidency to Obama.
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LOL ok so this went from how Israel always gets its way to something about how Israel does the will of George Bush?

I hate to break it to you but Obama and Biden are big Israeli supporters as well.



Obama called Israel "our strongest ally in the region," and stated: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs."

He also got MAJOR points with me on this comment:

Obama denounced former President Jimmy Carter for meeting with Hamas. Obama said "Hamas is not a state, Hamas is a terrorist organization."

Did you really expect him to be any different in regards towards Israel?


Also please, do show us some links where these HUNDREDS of civilians have died in Operation Cast Lead.

"as the death toll surpassed 350, some 60 of them civilians, according to United Nations officials."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/30/africa/30mideast.php


I am sure that number will rise but it is hardly "hundreds of civilians".
 
Also if Iran or anyone else was ever silly enough to detonate a nuclear bomb inside Israel we would all have much bigger issues than this age old Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

That action would have the potential to bring about a new World War.
Click to expand...

I don't see why my country, or your country (if you're American it means we're part of the same 'coalition'), or any nuclear power should start a world war because of a nuclear conflict in Israel.

If you say you value the lives of your citizens so much, the logical course of action in case of a nuclear war in the middle east should be non-involvement.
 
Blakut said:
Also if Iran or anyone else was ever silly enough to detonate a nuclear bomb inside Israel we would all have much bigger issues than this age old Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

That action would have the potential to bring about a new World War.
Click to expand...

I don't see why my country, or your country (if you're American it means we're part of the same 'coalition'), or any nuclear power should start a world war because of a nuclear conflict in Israel.

If you say you value the lives of your citizens so much, the logical course of action in case of a nuclear war in the middle east should be non-involvement.
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In the end it is not my decision who we go to war with so my personal feelings on the matter really do not matter. I accpt the situations we are put in and try to make the best of them while we are in them.

Considering the United States relationship to Israel, I find it highly unlikely we would sit by and do nothing if a nuclear bomb was detonated inside the country.
It would not be hard at all to rally support in the Western World for Israel if such an event occurred.

This is all getting into the realm of speculation and what ifs tho. I suppose it would really depend on the situation.

Also to be considered is the fact Israel has a a nice little stock pile of nuclear,chemical, and biological weapons. If someone were to nuke Israel they would have to reap the whirlwind.
 
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