Strange arguments you had with other Fallout fans?

Funny enough, Fallout 4's loading screens still call the T-51 the pinnacle of pre-war PA technology. Of course, they also say that the APA was made after the war despite one suit being in a blatantly pre-war case in Nuka World...
Either way, I think there was just a miscommunication or something. They wanted the T-60 to be a BoS development and retrofit of the T-45, but then it became their "signature" armor for the game, and it needed to be on the cover, and all over the trailers and stuff... But the trailers and gameplay footages heavily featured the pre-war sequence, so the T-60 had to be in there, consistency be damned, and so it became pre-war. I guess it's exemplary of how the rule of cool can trump any consistency if needed.
I would have liked more variety with the power armors, btw. Different frames, for starters, that can only fit certain plating. A frame for T-45 plates, a retrofit T-60 frame, a T-51 frame, an APA frame. The T-45 frame needs energy cells (or fusion cells or whatever), but for the T-60 retrofit the BoS added an onboard reactor like on the T-51. But the onboard reactors of the T-51 from before the war have run out, so the player has to reload those first before using them, which is a more complicated process, but then you'd not have to worry about power running out. The (extremely rare) APA is of course still freshly loaded and generally the best. Add more modifications to the frames as well. Improvable energy drain for the T-45 frames, for example, more speed, that kind of stuff. Could have been a great system and even a plotpoint (dunno, have a stash of mint T-45 or T-51 armors in some sort of old army bunker that the player learns about, have the factions fight over that), but what we got was a bland linear progression system tied to leveling lists. Just one example on how Fallout 4 had a good idea, but managed to make it boring by saying "Eh, this is kinda hard work, let's not do that".
 
The next game will simply establish that EVERYTHING(!) that ever was in Fallout will become pre-war.

Why be bothered with something like Lore when you want to write the MOST EPIC ADVENTURE THE WASTELAND HAS EVER SEEN! (sounds better in Todds voices).

Lore, like choices and consequences, or actuall role playing just get in your way!
 
The robot thing is weird considering Bethesda seemed aware of that part of the Lore in Fo3. A lot of "comedy" was derived of robots applying their programed routines to post apocalyptic events and some places in FO4 itself were built around the premise too like the Plaza with the Mr. Handies still acting as normal clerks and shit. The writing is so inconsistent it seems like there was very little direction and quality pipelines on a level worse than FO2. This is why I doubt the "7 year development cycle" claim.
 
>People implying Fallout 4 looks remotely nice.

For fuck's sake, Crysis 2 on the PS3 potato system looks nicer than Fallout 4 on the max settings on a quad SLI Titan rig.

Stalker from 2009 has better textures, only the sheer age of it results in less complex models.

EVEN THEN THE WEAPON AND CREATURE DESIGN IS NICER.
 
The robot thing is weird considering Bethesda seemed aware of that part of the Lore in Fo3. A lot of "comedy" was derived of robots applying their programed routines to post apocalyptic events and some places in FO4 itself were built around the premise too like the Plaza with the Mr. Handies still acting as normal clerks and shit. The writing is so inconsistent it seems like there was very little direction and quality pipelines on a level worse than FO2. This is why I doubt the "7 year development cycle" claim.

Most probably they had different teams and writers, hence the difference in quality or tone. You have people working on some region of the map, or doing only side quests, where as lead writers work on the main quest and that stuff. And in regular meetings you have the seniors in the company or someone like Todd just nod the stuff trough, or demanding changes.

A project really depends on the vision of the people in charge, if they can manage to keep the content close to the idea or 'red line' they estabilshed. Even if you have really skilled people ( that is generaly my experience ) a project can and will go down the gutter if there is no strong leadership with a keen sense on what the the end result should look like.<

This is made even worse by the fact that Todd Howard admitted in several interviews about Fallout 3, that they do not have something like a 'concept phase', in his words "(...)They directly go to the programming". And of course, that's how you end up with shit like the ending of F3, that's about sacrifice and radition immune companions refusing to do the job for you ... without any danger to their lives.
 
>People implying Fallout 4 looks remotely nice.

For fuck's sake, Crysis 2 on the PS3 potato system looks nicer than Fallout 4 on the max settings on a quad SLI Titan rig.

Stalker from 2009 has better textures, only the sheer age of it results in less complex models.

EVEN THEN THE WEAPON AND CREATURE DESIGN IS NICER.
It's true, compared to other modern titles it doesn't look exceptional, but it is a large, open world, and for that it's ok-ish. The lighting is fine, although it does lack proper dynamic shadows. The textures are a mixed bag, but many world textures are good. Model detail is fine, although the animations suck balls. It's quite hard to pull off such a big and supposedly dynamic world properly. I guess what makes Fallout 4 look somewhat decent is the art direction, although it lacks in that regard compared to Fallout 3. Especially the armors are waaay to clunky, and the lack of established weapons is quite a letdown.
What pisses me off is that Bethesda still can't do the day/night cycle properly. The sun still moves in noticably large increments, making the shadows of trees move in a very peculiar way every few seconds.
And, of course, the game is terribly optimized. They write on the box that the game NEEDS 2GB of VRAM, and they mean it. If you have less, the game won't run properly. It's not just slow, and you can't fix it by reducing texture size, the game will simply stop loading anything but the lowest LOD textures after a while (and crash all the time).
The high res pack is even worse, it says it requires a GTX1080 and is almost 60 GB in size, and it offers not all that much increase in visual fidelity. It's like they just dumped their raw textures into a file and called it a day. Tons of modders have made much better high res packs that deliver much better performance (better than vanilla, at times, by optimizing the LOD textures much better). Bethesda is really bad at te technical aspects, but they know they can rely on modders to fix their shit.
 
The lighting is fine, although it does lack proper dynamic shadows. The textures are a mixed bag, but many world textures are good.

God fucking no.

The textures make everything look like its made of plastic and lego, and the lighting is fucking atrocious.

STALKER from 2009 does lighting better.

Night time in FO4 looks like absolute garbage.
 
God fucking no.

The textures make everything look like its made of plastic and lego, and the lighting is fucking atrocious.

STALKER from 2009 does lighting better.

Night time in FO4 looks like absolute garbage.
True, STALKER at least managed to do proper dynamic lighting. I can't believe it still takes a mod for Fallout 4's Pipboy to actually cast shadows.
 
True, STALKER at least managed to do proper dynamic lighting. I can't believe it still takes a mod for Fallout 4's Pipboy to actually cast shadows.

I can't believe that even with mods, Fallout 4 is absolute trash.

At least Skyrim had the decency of becoming decent with mods.
 
Eh, some mods actually do improve the game. Sim Settlements makes the settlement system a lot better (really, it should have been like that right from the start), for example.
Maybe, when Fallout: Arcadia can pull off the classic skill system there'll be some more mods to improve the mechanics. However, there just might be too much wrong or unfinished with the game to actually fix it with mods after all. Skyrim had potential. I still enjoy Skyrim, even mostly unmodded. Fallout 4 is much weaker from a mechanical point of view.
 
Say what you will about STALKER but you guys are crumbling breadcrumbs on STALKER textures for no good reason. Fallout 4's PBR algorhitm apparently only know two kinds of material, glossy metal and glossy plastic, giving textures this faky look. At least in STALKER, metal looks natural, brickwalls look natural and ground, well you understand.

And F4's "superior lighting" suddenly stops working with artificial lightsources or bouncing lights, making interiors and parts of Boston with no clear sunlight look flat and past-gen. Shadows are only different in shadowmap sizes, IMO they're identical. In general, Fallout 4 wins a bit at big open areas bathed in sunlight and fails everywhere else. No, rain effect is ugly and overly glossy again.

And always to mention that STALKER has more options to reduce graphics quality drastically but without harming the overall look that much.

And not always mentioned, STALKER is from 2007-09 while Fallout 4 is 2015 title, meaning it's more modern and therefore, more performance-hungry for no good reason.
 
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That isn't to say STALKER is perfect, pound for pound the Xray engine is...Amazing but also prone to spontaneously nuke itself.
 
Beth games regularly nuke them self.

And not always mentioned, STALKER is from 2007-09 while Fallout 4 is 2015 title, meaning it's more modern and therefore, more performance-hungry for no good reason.
The reason is, that Bethesda is using an engine that's older than most posters on this forum.
 
Bethesda is using an engine that's older than most posters on this forum.
...And originally developed by Black Isle Studio for Fallout 3 that wasn't Van Buren and sold to NDL and by them resold to Bethesda. The shit cycle goes on and on...
 
This has probably been posted here before but its always an interesting one..... in a twisted kind of way.

Recently i had one claim that it somehow makes sense that a supermarket 200 years after the war would still have food in it simply because there are less people around than there were before the war and that it makes sense as the only food source the people have... And when he asked for proof and i said common sense and that apparently wasn't enough of a proof. Then i said that even Bethesda clearly understood this in Fallout 4 by having farmland around and even that wasn't enough.

He also said that it makes sense that it would be edible and sure, while there certainly is food that can remain edible for extremely long times, food like that is very much in the minority, food that can last for 200 years even more so.

So tell me about your experiences with people like this.

The one that comes up often is the inconsistency in ghoul lore.

Ghoul settlers use 2 food and 1 water like any other normal settler and the ghoul's at that community pool settlement cultivate tarberries for food. But then we've got wild cards like Billy and Wayne Gorski going without food/water for long (very long) periods of time. I've come to accept that these are just terrible easter egg references to movies / people.

Another discussion was whether ghoul's were members of the minutemen or not. One guy was convinced that they weren't and engaged in some strange mental gymnastics to explain that Ghoul settlers spawning in your Minutemen headquarter (Castle), or the Ghoul tarberry settlement becoming a Minutemen settlement wasn't indicative of anything.

Also, when survival mode made it's debut in the beta patch (~April 2016) there was a lot of debate over whether the mode needed more flexibility and user-control over options (like turning off the narcoleptic save feature). The term 'toggle-waffling' was introduced by people that wanted the experience to be pure and unalterable, and didn't want people having an a la carte experience with the mode.

I've seen some shit.
 
A theory that seeks to reinterpret ingame facts or presentation that is based on literally nothing is inherently contradictory and therefore worthless.
You're really contradicting yourself The people who imagined and created the lore for fallout aren't involved in making the games anymore. Doesn't that mean the lore is changing and people are being creative and coming up with new and different perceptions of how the post apocalyptic world could be? The games lore evolving to satisfy our curiosity is that a bad thing? I love 1. I still couldn't imagine not having all the games that came after it
 
...And originally developed by Black Isle Studio for Fallout 3 that wasn't Van Buren and sold to NDL and by them resold to Bethesda. The shit cycle goes on and on...
Actually, no. That's not true. The GameByro engine was first conceived in 1991, then was used in the late 90s, early 2000s by Bethesda for Morrowind. At no point between point A and B did BIS come in as a middleman between the two.
 
Actually, no. That's not true. The GameByro engine was first conceived in 1991, then was used in the late 90s, early 2000s by Bethesda for Morrowind. At no point between point A and B did BIS come in as a middleman between the two.
Seriously, I never heard that one. Can't find anything on that, either. BlackIsle did want to use NetImmerse for the first iteration of Fallout 3, though.
 
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