Th4if no more.

Walpknut said:
It might not be the QTE and superfluous "RPG elements" (exp points) filled mess it was looking out to be, but the fact alone that JUMPING is a contextual action and not a regular command is enough of a deal breaker for me, that is just stupid.
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It IS weird to see Thief of all games face that issue, yeah. I'm willing to give them a pass on rope arrows only working in precise spots, but Garret the master thief not being able to jump at will is a bit silly. I mean, Dishonored and Human Revolution had jumping and their platforming/exploration worked very well, why not use these as a model?

It's not a dealbreaker or me, however. A friend of mine who's a big Theif fan likes it, so maybe I'll grab the game soon enough. I've been a bit starved as far as stealth goes these days.
 
Why is jumping such an integral part of a game? As long as you can climb surfaces, ladders, ropes, heave yourself up to higher ground etc, what does it matter? I have always considered jumping in games to be extremely unrealistic and as long as there aren't low un-climbable obstacles blocking me, I don't see much point in being able to do a standing unrealistically high jump.

As for Thief, I bever played the old games but am planning to. But I think this one is shaping up to be a pretty good stealth game.
 
.Pixote. said:
it appears the game had been dumbed down for todays gamer who need easy answers...:confused:
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You can toggle cheat-vision on and off in the options menu.

I've been waiting for a sequel for so long that I might give in at one point and get it at a Steam sale... I hear the story is shit and might spoil ghosting attempts, but on the whole there might be good challenges.

Has anybody heard if the thing is moddable? (Googling help you not because you hit all the Thief: Gold modding communities)
 
aenemic said:
Why is jumping such an integral part of a game? As long as you can climb surfaces, ladders, ropes, heave yourself up to higher ground etc, what does it matter? I have always considered jumping in games to be extremely unrealistic and as long as there aren't low un-climbable obstacles blocking me, I don't see much point in being able to do a standing unrealistically high jump..
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In all three of the older games, anything that could be stood on could be climbed by jumping at it's edge and holding down the jump key.

If you can only climb in key locations then you're bound to encounter objects you can't climb on or over that seem like you should. Apparently the new Thief doesn't avoid this problem.
 
34thcell said:
If you can only climb in key locations then you're bound to encounter objects you can't climb on or over that seem like you should. Apparently the new Thief doesn't avoid this problem.
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What's the difference between 'climb on everything you can stand on' and what you described last? Who says jumping/climbing is only limited to special places? Did anyone play it yet and can confirm that or is everyone still high on rage-fumes?
I wouldn't miss a jump button in a stealth game that much. It pissed me off in Bullet Storm, but that game was called 'a blast from the past' and 'classic FPS'. Bunnyhopping in a stealth game feels kinda wrong.
 
I dono about Thief but if the first Mario had context only jumping I doubt people would have enjoyed it.:V
 
From what i have seen: quick time events, minigames, loading screens, obligatory "cool"/"slick" female companion (so that female gamers wouldn't be put off), secret stashes with big "press e" letters on them, deadly shadows level of AI, plenty of pointers for where, who and how, the character moves suspiciously similar to the Alien :).

Don't know... The game seems to me like a hooker with a ton of makeup and some flashy clothes, underneath which you can see neelde marks and if you look very closely, you can see that she is missing a couple of teeth also.
 
Hassknecht said:
34thcell said:
If you can only climb in key locations then you're bound to encounter objects you can't climb on or over that seem like you should. Apparently the new Thief doesn't avoid this problem.
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What's the difference between 'climb on everything you can stand on' and what you described last? Who says jumping/climbing is only limited to special places? Did anyone play it yet and can confirm that or is everyone still high on rage-fumes?
I wouldn't miss a jump button in a stealth game that much. It pissed me off in Bullet Storm, but that game was called 'a blast from the past' and 'classic FPS'. Bunnyhopping in a stealth game feels kinda wrong.
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The problem with making jumping contextual is that it robs the game of emergent routes and gameplay, as you can only jump from specific places and climb only certain things you are more railroaded into the specific route the designers made with no deviations, you may have 3 routes to complete the level but you won't have any variation in what you can do in those routes. I even heard of a part of the game where there is a pressure plate on the way but because you can't jump over it you would trigger it so you would be forced to take a specific route.
 
sounds kinda stupid, I mean jumping over preasure plates has been around since ... no clue, quake?
 
Walpknut said:
Hassknecht said:
34thcell said:
If you can only climb in key locations then you're bound to encounter objects you can't climb on or over that seem like you should. Apparently the new Thief doesn't avoid this problem.
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What's the difference between 'climb on everything you can stand on' and what you described last? Who says jumping/climbing is only limited to special places? Did anyone play it yet and can confirm that or is everyone still high on rage-fumes?
I wouldn't miss a jump button in a stealth game that much. It pissed me off in Bullet Storm, but that game was called 'a blast from the past' and 'classic FPS'. Bunnyhopping in a stealth game feels kinda wrong.
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The problem with making jumping contextual is that it robs the game of emergent routes and gameplay, as you can only jump from specific places and climb only certain things you are more railroaded into the specific route the designers made with no deviations, you may have 3 routes to complete the level but you won't have any variation in what you can do in those routes. I even heard of a part of the game where there is a pressure plate on the way but because you can't jump over it you would trigger it so you would be forced to take a specific route.
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The only way there are emergent routes with a jump button is when you glitch through walls or stuff like that.
Having a pressure plate blocking the way is stupid, though.
 
Or you know when you have structures to climb and try your hand with tricky jumps with ledges and the like to avoid enemies and traps? Like in Dishonored? Or Deus Ex? Or the Old Thief games?
 
34thcell said:
Hassknecht said:
The only way there are emergent routes with a jump button is when you glitch through walls or stuff like that.
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VIDEO
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Ha! I remember skulking around that level for so long the first time around. I wonder if Thi4f is going to have such replay value - you know, trying to find all dem secrets and loot etc. Some of those kowapangaa jumps in the video are ridiculous, though :surprised:
 
Then again, you wouldn't exactly call the gameplay in that video advanced stealth, would you? The guy doesn't even need to sneak around. I'm actually somewhat more attracted to the gameplay in, say, Totalbiscuit's video.

And from what I hear, yeah there are lots of hidden secrets, unique loot and stuff like that, including in the hub world. My friend was a bit shocked to see he missed one of them in all the missions he did, even after spending more than an hour per level. it does help that he disabled loot glint and focus and all that nonsense, I imagine.
 
Guys, no.

You're all wrong. It really is bad. I saw a streaming of it.

The stealth mechanics are laughably bad. At one point, the streamer was being chased, ran into a closet in full view of his pursuers, and they couldn't find him. The AI is so bad you can open doors on them without them noticing.

There's unavoidable combat segments.

The maps are linear and unexplorable. There's a waypoint system, and Garret is constantly telling the player where to go (even when enemies are nearby and logically he would be heard).

The textures are constantly popping in and out and the framerate goes from 30-15 fps constantly. At one point, there were THREE loading screens in two minutes between cutscenes.

At one point, the citizens of whatever city are rioting. The mob? Two people. Furthermore, there's one audio file for when Garret gets hurt, so the (unavoidable) combat is pretty much "EH... EH... EH" being looped over and over again. The voice acting is horrible, too. The writing is worse. You'd have to see it to know, but it has GHOSTS. At one point, Garret makes fun of the Baron by calling him "Baranoid".

It's beyond bad, it's a technical mess, a creative wreck, and all-around horrible game.
 
Ilosar said:
Then again, you wouldn't exactly call the gameplay in that video advanced stealth, would you? The guy doesn't even need to sneak around. I'm actually somewhat more attracted to the gameplay in, say, Totalbiscuit's video.
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Thief was definitely much more focused on the adventure aspect of action-adventure than modern games, so it's not much of a challenge if you know where everything is. You needed to be stealthy so you could go unmolested while exploring.

Of course, the video is a speedrun and not indicative of normal gameplay, it was just an extreme example of "emergent gameplay".
 
I happened on a review that gave me a semblance of hope of enjoying the new Thief: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/24/thief-review/

It admits the shit parts, but tries to highlight the goodies.

rockpapershotgun said:
I would also be remiss not to mention the awkward similarities with Dishonored. Now, clearly Dishonored was like Thief, rather than the other way around. But here it does get awfully close to reversing that in places. Not just the art style, that mimics rather than matches Dishonored’s remarkable look, but also in an uncomfortable number of locations. The bordello and bridge crossing being the most uncanny. I imagine this is unfortunate coincidence, but all the same, it’s noticeable.
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I was afraid of this part, actually. That they couldn't resist attempting to imitate Dishonored's success
 
Yeah, because Dishonored was succesful because of how a bordello and a bridge looked. Modern game companies are so clueless. .
 
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