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Deleted member 53669
Guest
Oh so I guess I didn't see which one was a dude or not in TLOU2 "what a horrible abbreviation". Whatever.
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The Last of Us 2 - Two cowgirls murdering each other's loved ones
- Thread starter CT Phipps
- Start date
D
Deleted member 98605
Guest
For the record, the Transman in this game is Lev, the archer boy. They barely acknowledge it in a modern way because they barely know it exists; just that Lev is fighting against the social norms of the cult he's in because the cult has regressed as all cults do. Lev wants to fight and be a boy. Fine enough. Of course the cult elders just want more vaginas to fuck under their gonk bodies and reject this so Lev and his sister Yara run off.
Lev becomes to Abby what Ellie was to Joel; and Abby also fucks up the world for Lev's sake by the first? Climax because Isaac wants to kill ALL cultists, Lev included, but Abby intervenes, Isaac dies, the WLF has no leadership as Isaac is dead, Manny died, and Abby is rogue, so they get fucking butchered like Stormtroopers versus Ewoks (and it doesn't help that Abby kills a lot of them, too).
Though I think Lev stupidly returned home to see his momma and guess what his mother is an indoctrinated cult bitch who sees him as an abhorrent sinful mess like apparently most of the posters here would do and tries to kill him on sight.
Good going everyone - Lev for going back, Abby does a Joel and Isaac stupidly attacks the Seraphites in force, despite losing his two Lieutenants and dozens of his forces the preceeding days thanks to Ellie.
Maybe the main problem of this game is the damn idiot ball being tossed around like a hot potato. Abby and Yara should had laid down the law more. Lev should had been much more realistic about going back for even a spell. Isaac had no excuse at all to end up on that beach thinking he was doing a D-day when it was a Dieppe, and the WLF has no excuse to falling down to a cult armed with axes, bows, and some guns, it's like, again, the Ewoks and Stormtroopers or CL vs NCR, makes no damn sense.
Lev becomes to Abby what Ellie was to Joel; and Abby also fucks up the world for Lev's sake by the first? Climax because Isaac wants to kill ALL cultists, Lev included, but Abby intervenes, Isaac dies, the WLF has no leadership as Isaac is dead, Manny died, and Abby is rogue, so they get fucking butchered like Stormtroopers versus Ewoks (and it doesn't help that Abby kills a lot of them, too).
Though I think Lev stupidly returned home to see his momma and guess what his mother is an indoctrinated cult bitch who sees him as an abhorrent sinful mess like apparently most of the posters here would do and tries to kill him on sight.
Good going everyone - Lev for going back, Abby does a Joel and Isaac stupidly attacks the Seraphites in force, despite losing his two Lieutenants and dozens of his forces the preceeding days thanks to Ellie.
Maybe the main problem of this game is the damn idiot ball being tossed around like a hot potato. Abby and Yara should had laid down the law more. Lev should had been much more realistic about going back for even a spell. Isaac had no excuse at all to end up on that beach thinking he was doing a D-day when it was a Dieppe, and the WLF has no excuse to falling down to a cult armed with axes, bows, and some guns, it's like, again, the Ewoks and Stormtroopers or CL vs NCR, makes no damn sense.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
More great Fallout New Vegas TLoU2 memes:
Here is some Fallout 4 ones for LOL's.
Fallout 2 one also:
Here is some Fallout 4 ones for LOL's.
Fallout 2 one also:
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Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
I wanted to echo something that has been said in the thread too that I totally agree with. The setting itself is crap. I'm not a fan of zombie fiction in general and whilst I liked the idea of the fungal zombies the vast majority are still your standard 28 Days Later sprinters (whilst 28 Days Later still manages to be the only movie that's made them actually visceral and frightening) and I don't even understand how a fungal infection spreads through a bite.
The problem is one that I have with most zombie fiction is that as far as post-apocalypses go they are so massively boring. There's no speculative fiction about new societies or even insane maddened raiders like your post-nuclear affairs. All the group types are the same. It's why I stopped watching The Walking Dead after Season 3, there's only so many of the exact same survivor group and the exact same problems you can really manage.
The idea that the millitary would lose control is in itself massively unrealistic in a zombie scenario (I love for the record how this was handled in 28 Days Later where it's a flash in the pan crisis because the infected starve to death and the army regains control within a month), so I don't know why they don't go further down the unrealistic path and explore the kind of wild and interesting ideas for a post-apoc anarchy.
But it's always the same.
The problem is one that I have with most zombie fiction is that as far as post-apocalypses go they are so massively boring. There's no speculative fiction about new societies or even insane maddened raiders like your post-nuclear affairs. All the group types are the same. It's why I stopped watching The Walking Dead after Season 3, there's only so many of the exact same survivor group and the exact same problems you can really manage.
The idea that the millitary would lose control is in itself massively unrealistic in a zombie scenario (I love for the record how this was handled in 28 Days Later where it's a flash in the pan crisis because the infected starve to death and the army regains control within a month), so I don't know why they don't go further down the unrealistic path and explore the kind of wild and interesting ideas for a post-apoc anarchy.
But it's always the same.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
She started second guessing herself when Jesse died trying to get her revenge. Also, when she ended up killing Mel (a pregnant woman). It's one thing to kill a bunch of soldiers in battle (or the heat of the moment). It's another to lose one of your closest friends killing seemingly normal people in their home.
That is the dumbest fucking correlation I've ever heard in my life. In what fucking universe is a deconstructive Western to be far left? It reminds me of TRUE GRIT's remake with the Coen Brothers and Unforgiven. Neither of which scream far left.
Really boo? This is beneath you. Slurs against your fellow forumites? WTF.
In what universe does the gay status of Ellie have anything to do with the story? You're really making some bizarre fucking statements. Honestly, I hadn't even been aware you have any issues with Ellie's sexuality.
This is a revenge story and the sexualities of the protagonists have nothing to do with it.
I thought Spec Ops was a masterpiece and full of fascinating insights. Then I found out instead of trying to make an insight on war, trauma, and false heroic narratives - it was parodying military shooters alone and trying to make you feel guilty for playing them. Which is some Jack Thompson level bullshit.
Part of what I like about THE LAST OF US is the military haven't lost control. They're still in charge of virtually every place in the world that's still civilized. Even Seattle is under the control of the military, it's just this particular sect has broken away from the mainstream military. The Fireflies are fucking up the remainder of humanity's infrastructure by fighting the military but people forget they LOST against the military.
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D
Deleted member 98605
Guest
Hopefully in the future people can just talk about the game and its setting without the Gamergate bro level pile of shit flung at it, which is really weak - Abby isn't Trans, Ellie is in a relationship that goes nowhere, Lev is the Transman and no one gives a shit because everyone thinks it's Abby, and then everyone hates that these women on the front lines and/or adventuring has a body to adventure with. You ain't going to see marilyn monroe out there.
Half of you would feel right at home in the Codex at this rate.
Half of you would feel right at home in the Codex at this rate.
Eumesmopo
Learned to love the bomb
Are people really at fault for thinking that she is the trans when they sculpted her body to have gigantic gorilla arms that 99.9% of all biological women wouldn't be able to achieve even with steroids? There is just no way around it. Abby's arms are way too disproportionally thick and stand out too much because of that, there is simply no way that character can appear on any scene without those giant arms drawing your attention away and generally being distracting. It's akin to putting a traffic cone hat on the character's head.
It really is no different from the gigantic jugs that Lara Croft had on the old Tomb Raider games in that they sculpted the character's body in such a stupidly over the top way that it becomes extremely distracting and prevents immersion and suspension of disbelief. And I might not be doing OG Lara's breasts justice because at least the old Tomb Raider games where deliberately silly and didn't take themselves anywhere near as seriously as the Last of Us does, and breast implants are also a thing. Abby's arms, on the other hand, are by all means completely unrealistic: Even at a glance her real life body model has visibly thinner arms than she does at her initial appearance, the modeler actually significantly enlarged her arms on Maya to make them disproportionally big in relation to her core body musculature. They actually took an elite athlete, who probably has access to top notch medical and sports professionals, limitless refined protein sources, several legal performance enhancing drugs, trains at least 3 hours a day, shapes her whole professional life around keeping her body on perfect shape on top of most certainly already being on the 99th percentile of genetic predisposition to peak physical performance, and then still went out of their way to make her body look even more unfeasible.
It's also quite telling that even when you google "female bodybuilding world champions", the women you see have overall more feminine proportions and significantly thinner arm musculature in relation to their core musculature. And I must stress that all of these women are taking heavy dosages of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs in order to achieve even those gains, if you where to add "natty" to your search, the resulting women would be significantly less enormous.
People will defend the way Abby's body was sculpted just because they think everyone criticizing it is some misogynist or transphobe or whatever, you take that away and the emperor is naked. It really is ridiculous, frankly, this isn't different from taking a female body model and warping her breasts to be the size of watermelons and then actually unironically releasing her with the final game like that; It's farcical, distorted and unrealistic.
It's almost as if they intentionally made her so exaggerated as to be far too ridiculous not to spawn an horde of memes and bank on the free advertisement. And given the awkward and out-of-nowhere graphic sex scene that was forced upon the player later on, I seriously think that "muscle girl fetishism" might also be involved on the decision to make Abby have such an exaggerated arm musculature.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yeah, probably because transwomen don't try to look big and beefy. Also, the arguments were just damn weird.
"There wouldn't be enough protein for her to do that!"
"But there would be...for men?"
When the game was set out, the internet exploded due to the rumors Abby would kill Ellie at the end after killing Joel at the beginning.
Which gets to the heart of the matter--a bunch of shit this games gets is based on people not waiting to play the f-ing game and being wrong about it.
Also, Abby isn't that butch except in a few photos. Yes, she's got big ripped arms, she's also got adorable braids and looks cute as a button in a lot of scenes. Which makes the, "She's too masculine!" arguments all the weirder.
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
The artists should have done the Cassie Cage litmus test: Does our character (who is from a grounded, somewhat realistic world) look bigger than a woman that spends her entire time beating the shit out of dudes built like freight trains? If the answer is yes then
Aurelius Of Phoenix
Psued.
In what world is the Last of Us 1 or 2 a deconstructive western, it takes place in a post-apocalypse after a human version of the cordyceps virus ravages the world. The only thing it deconstructs is the traditional revenge narrative, but at no point does it represent thematically anything but the corpse of an old world slowly being taken back by nature. It's not a western.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Ah! So you have the same fetish as Neil for muscle girls that look like men. As a woman, I find Abby's appearances to be insulting. There are plenty of muscular woman out there but many of them still have feminine features. Abby looks like a man. Square body and square face, like a man. Hell, she looks like Greta Thunberg after downing steroids and protein bars.
Jesus Christ, my youngest brother is gay for fucks sake but I am going to tell you the same thing my brother tells me and that he is fucking tired of a gay or trans character sexuality being shoved in his face. New Vegas handle gay characters right. Also, like him, I am sick and fucking tired of fucking lesbians. You will never see a Western game developer explore the relationship and struggles of a gay man. Gee... I wonder why? Could it be that lesbians are more tolerated in countries (who devs and publishers want to get their money from) hostile to gays then they would be for gay men? Or that most gamers are straight men that aren't comfortable playing gay men but are totality fine with lesbians? No way! These devs are progressive and would never do something as Machiavellian as having their cake and eating it too.
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Post-apocalypse fiction has often been the setting for Westerns. You have your frontier town (Jackson), you have your cozy little farmhouse (Ellie's place), you have your horse-riding ranchers, and you have your story about feuding families/factions.
Plus Ellie and Abby are gunslingers.
Plus Ellie and Abby are gunslingers.
Aurelius Of Phoenix
Psued.
Is Romeo and Juliet a western?
Ellie and Abby are proficient at almost all forms of combat with Abby seemingly always btfo'ing Ellie except when she's been crucified for god knows how long, and neither seem to have any particular fondness for handguns.
The post-apocalypse shares with the western a sense of freedom, and savageness. On the edge of civilization, the difference being that the post-apocalypse is after the fall and the Western is the dawn of expansion both sometimes express themes of something ending and something beginning. New Vegas is both because it shows the reconstruction of society creating a new frontier while The last of Us shows a dead country with desperate groups clawing for the scraps. Everywhere you go you see failed military zones, Fireflies have terrorized the first zone and it's a shithole, the raider group hunt for sport and you slowly pick them apart and kill their leader, by the end you have destroyed a large firefly cell. In Tlou2 besides Jackson, the rest are not much better than savages with the WLF, seraphittes, etc their are no nations, and no groups looking out for anyone but themselves. It's a wasteland not a frontier and shows little to name it a Western. It's like calling a crime film a noir film, they can be very similar but they have a different feel entirely.
Also:
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I think Tessa chasing Joel for silly reasons is a bit different than someone murdering Ellie's father figure.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
The Last of Us is as much a Western as The Walking Dead. It isn't and it also isn't a deconstruction. Red Dead Redemption was a deconstructions mainly because you play as John and Arthur during the dying years of the frontier. Where civilization was encroaching and expanding on the Wild West, taming the Natives, Outlaws and Cowboys with some trying to fight against it and keep the spirit of the Wild West alive only to be squashed under civilization, industrialization and the US governments boot. The Last of Us deals with survival and trying to survive and navigate through a world that is dangerous and will, without mercy, kill you. Be it from man or monsters. The survival genre also deals more with humanity and it's tragedy's and flaws, which The Last of Us does deal with, while Westerns deal more with the adventure and themes such as expansionism and justices. Not all but a lot of them do and I have 2 bookshelves on my bookcase dedicated to nothing but Western and Wild West history and another shelf full of Native American folklore and history.
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TorontoReign
Guest
If someone wears a cowboy hat at any point in the story it is a western. If there is sand outside with a tumbleweed going by it is a western. If there is a country music star in the story it is a western.
People being faggots over a game about dykes.
Also, y'all need to chill out.
Also, y'all need to chill out.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1749602018796696?journalCode=csta
This article argues that The Walking Dead is a post-Western, a genre that extracts classical Hollywood Western themes and iconography, and resituates them in a dystopian, postapocalyptic setting. The program features characters forced to reconquer the frontier amid the disintegration of modern society, who must battle undead walkers and other human survivors. As a post-Western, the program inverts the ideological optimism of the classical Hollywood Western. In doing so, it highlights the linkages between the seemingly unconnected narrative universes of the Western and the postapocalyptic tale.
I don't think that's a deconstruction but a theme.
THE LAST OF US 2 is a deconstruction because the classic revenge narrative that drives so many Westerns is such an utterly bad idea throughout. It results in everyone getting fucked over and horrific consequences for everyone involved.
RED DEAD REDEMPTION is about the twilight of the Old West but there's no need to deconstruct it because that's the theme. Yes, it's going to die out and give way to civilization and there is not a damn thing that John or Arthur can do about it.
Eumesmopo
Learned to love the bomb
You think that the message that "revenge is bad" is deep? Honest question.