The real issues with Fallout 3, in my opinion.

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Nimdok, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Its not a fact. A they didnt have enough knowledge about seafaring to begin with,and it was A BARGE. Not a SHIP. There is fundamental difference in a barge and in a ship.
    They didnt know how to navigate oceans well, and they most likely wouldnt have been able to take with them enough food and water, to supply the rowers for a crossing of a ocean. Also, scurvy would have been a problem, in a ship that has sevelar hundred men.
    It is not possible. Not with the knowledge the romans had, they werent seafaring people.

    Even IF the british would have developed technology levels around NCR, they still wouldnt waste their resources, ON A ONE WAY TRIP.
    I already mentioned earlier, who knows how the sea currents have changed, so any existing, pre war sea charts, would be almost useless. It would have to have either sails, or an engine. If it would be an engine it would require fuel, be it diesel, or fission power plant. Neither of those wouldnt likely work, first dye to the small amounts diesel and petrol left, second because it would be too advanced to maintain for non-experts for 200 years, and the small amount of uranium left in the world.
    So its a sail ship, made from scrap metal, and low quality wood, crossing atlantic ocean, with unknown sea currents, storm patterns, to go to DC, without ANY knowledge that there would be ANYTHINg worth going to, or getting from there. Yep, makes sense.
     
  2. José Cruz

    José Cruz First time out of the vault

    69
    Nov 24, 2008
    Technology is driven by need. The romans had the seafaring technology to circumnavigate Africa, because there was demand for this level of technology, since there were many trade routes that unified the Eurasian economy in the early 1st millennium. The problem of storage is a problem that the romans could easily deal with, considering that they could build ships much larger than the 50ton caravels that discovered America (Siracusia).

    America was discovered when the conquest of Constantinople by the Turks blocked the route to Asia and the Europeans needed to develop new trade routes. Then the demand for seafaring technology lead to the development of these technologies and the discovery of America. The Romans had much more economic resources than the portuguese and spanish nations had in the 15th century, resources that could be used in sea faring technology. Also, note that the Roman civilization was by the 1st century CE the most advanced civilization the world had ever seen before the 18th century's industrial revolution.

    Also, for an example of 3th century BCE maritime technology we have the Syracusia (with is a ship, not a barge). Larger than any ship that the europeans had until the 18th century ship of the line.


    Now lets talk about Fo3:
    Well, by Fo3 I think that the technology level had recovered from the war significantly. In Fo2, 40 years before Fo3, NCR, the Enclave and BoS had decent organization and technology to easily make seafaring vessels.

    The transcontinental ship will be made of metal (easily made with some metallurgical skills), probably like modern ships. And the energy stored in 1 pound of uraniun is more than enough for a 10,000 kilometer voyage (nuclear power is about 10 million times more concentrated than chemical power(oil)). With savaged techology from the 21th century it is very easy to make navigational instruments and remember that we are 200 years after the war, not 5, like Fo3 appears to be.

    One justification for the existence of seafaring vessels in fallout 3: we have the demand for intercontinental trade routes. Like Fo1 and 2, we had land routes that towns used to trade what they needed between the continents the possibilities for trade must have been quite large. And don't you think that the knowledge for maritime travel can be easily acquired after 200 years?

    Note that my arguments are based on the idea that society and economy in the world progressed from Fo2 in a similar rate of progress that happened in the 80 years between fallout 2 and 1. If you base your arguments on the level of societal and economic development displayed in Fo3 and assume that the rest of the world (outside Capital Wasteland) is in the same level, then a I can agree with you that it is ridiculous to have British immigrants in the wasteland. However, if you follow the world of the original games it is probable to have people travel tens of thousands of kilometers with regularity, with 120 years of societal and economic development from the world of fallout 1.
     
  3. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    It's not about whether or not it is feasible or possible, it's about whether or not it fits with the theme of Fallout.

    Fallout was never about a world where great discoveries were made and communications with far reaches of the world were possible.
    The point of the setting was to have isolated, hard to reach, small communities that had to do whatever they could.

    Hence, a British refugee would not fit the setting.
     
  4. TyloniusFunk

    TyloniusFunk It Wandered In From the Wastes

    130
    Nov 19, 2008
    You wanna explain to me how they're supposed to appeal to intellectuals without a British accent?
     
  5. generalissimofurioso

    generalissimofurioso The Hole Time Orderite

    Jun 17, 2007
    Vulcans obviously.

    Maybe the Borg too.
     
  6. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Start marketing the game to stuck up post-modernist artists as a treatise on the fall of Man. :p
     
  7. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    And again. Romans didnt have the skills and technology and the reason to go there, or attempt crossing atlantic. It is just a fact. THEY NEVER DID IT. It will remain as a fact, untill someone can give us certain proof that they crossed it. Maybe they could have, but then again, look how much trouble the portuguese had in 15th century. And they had compass, and various other "new" chinese inventions to use.

    And again, you are assuming that europe has developed in the same way US did. US had vaults, but we dont have ANY evidence of such things existing in europe, and europe was already devasted by the resource wars. It is PURE speculation to think that they could have the same level of tech as NCR, who had gotten some of theirs FROM the brotherhood of steel. SO, we cant really say that GB or rest of EU has devoped to the level of NCR.

    And yes, it doesnt fit the setting well. Having a old man from UK in
    DC. I hope he is just lying. And he really came from a vault, and learned that accent from watching old british films too much. Or playing oblivion. As apparently bethesda existed. -.-
     
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well ... as said only cause something is possible it has not to be in the game. Just like the Brotherhood and teh Enclave. No one doubt that they eventualy could make it to the DC area from California. But is it likely? Has it to be in the game?
     
  9. Chancellor Kremlin

    Chancellor Kremlin Mildly Dipped

    527
    Nov 17, 2008
    One. The romans had the technology, the skills (which they stole from the greeks and carthaginians), but NOT the motivation. To say that because they didn't go was because they could not is like saying we do not go to mars because we can't. We do have the technology, but there is not reason or financial/political gain to do so (unlike the moon landing which was politicaly motivated).

    Two. Switzerland has a 'Fallout Shelter'' system that dwarfs that of the United States. Recent documents show the USSR also put a lot more efforts into civilian protection and survival than the US ever did.

    Three. At the end of the day, I concur, there is absolutely no reason a British person should be in the U.S mainland at that time without a decent explanation. Actually, wasn't there a british sounding talking head in FO1 with some thieves or something?
     
  10. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    Yes, but it was a fake British accent. Loxley wasn't even his real name, he imitated the accent from pre-war holotapes about Robin Hood.
     
  11. Chancellor Kremlin

    Chancellor Kremlin Mildly Dipped

    527
    Nov 17, 2008
    Ahh yes that's the one. I miss FO1. Im in China temporarily for a year and thought I had brought it along with me. Sadly I only brought FO2. I only played FO1 once. I want to play it again :cry:
     
  12. Commiered

    Commiered It Wandered In From the Wastes

    193
    Nov 17, 2008
    Well regardless of whether it was possible technically for Tenpenny to cross the ocean, the guy just seems far too retarded and eccentric(in an idiotic way) to have been able to do so. He seems the kind of pompous stereotype of an old English gent who has his butler bring him his slippers, pipe and newspaper in the morning. Hardly the image of a navigator of the seas or even a passenger of some boat.
     
  13. RBA

    RBA First time out of the vault

    4
    Jan 1, 2009
    I think you'll find there is nutrifruit in the game lol.
     
  14. RBA

    RBA First time out of the vault

    4
    Jan 1, 2009
    Perhaps he's like Lloyd Grossman and is actually American with a weird accent? Pluse Moriarty is Irish and not British, his accent is southern Irish, only Northern Irish is considered British.

    If the Austrailian Indigenous people can make it to Austrailia 40,000 years ago from Eurasia, and Vikings made their way to America a thousand years ago, I think that someone from England could navigate the ocean towards America. Why he would want to go there in a post apocalyptic situation is another question. Perhaps he's actually a pompous RAF survivor who has been in a British Vault from the Cold War and flew an aircraft over.
     
  15. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Uh, did you read the other posts.
    Difference between seafaring people and "landlubbers" so to speak ,the knowledge of ship building, the distance traveled,possible island formations in the area, the type of sea or ocean crossed,MOTIVATION and even luck are important factors.


    But seriously, it is so unplausible to waste resources to go to USA after world has been nukes in to oblivion, and EVEN more unplausible to go with a plane to USA.
    Working plane after 200 years, and FUEL for it ? What airstrip did he land ?
    What materials would they use ? Steel and iron would have rusted.
    So its wood. Okay, they use wood boat to cross the sea. WHere did they learn to build ships ?
    Would the brits have had same level of technology as NCR ?
    How ?
    They didnt have GECKS,BoS, Or even vault-tec-vaults.
    Bloody unlikely.
     
  16. M-26-7

    M-26-7 Still Mildly Glowing

    246
    Jul 20, 2008
    I knew he was old, but 218! Wow, definition of a geezer right there.
     
  17. Gentlemen

    Gentlemen Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    384
    Sep 24, 2008
    Bethesda had to say he was from Britain, and not just some dude descended from British people who managed to keep the accent for centuries. Not to mention that if he could repair a ship, why did he come to the US? He could be rich in Britain with that kind of repair skills. I'm pretty sure that there might be some hotels left there for him to occupy.
     
  18. Holocausto

    Holocausto It Wandered In From the Wastes

    178
    Dec 14, 2008
    City States, agriculture, water, radiation, stupid survivors

    I will make this some what brief since I haven't had breakfast yet. Just some ideas I wanted to express.

    I'm no expert on Fallout lore or timelines but 200 years after a nuclear war if everybody is still in the state that they are in depicted in F3 I have to say that only the stupidest must have survived the war. You've got over 2 centuries past and still can't build some friggin real cities? Ever heard of "city states" F3 devs? Yes that's what used to exist IRL before centralized govs got fashionable. There can STILL be the lawless wasteland but there should be more bastions of civilization at this point in the games history. You could almost say "normal" life would've returned at least in these city states.

    Radiation & water....ok somebody with more knowledge can step in and correct me but I thought the radiation in water should've been dissipated by now. I know in Chernobyl the most radioactive items are certain physical SOLID objects which I guess retain radiation quite a bit. Water by its very nature seems to me incapable of "holding" radiation for a long time but I'm no scientist so.... But then there are these things called "wells" (not sure if beth devs ever heard of them) they draw water from underground which I've heard is a great filter for radiation but hey....Oh wait almost forgot there is this last thing called "rain". So a bunch of nukes dropped and now the earth say "no more rain for you" righty..


    I just have to re-emphasize because I "love" ludicrous scenarios :I have to say that only the stupidest must have survived the war. 200 years people....200 years they've had.

    discuss

    EDIT: ah merged ok. Let me just state for those who think I want F3 to be an apocalyptic simulator I will admit that I DO! I would love for it to be much more realistic but I understand it's not everybodies tastes. I'm not calling to abolish all the unrealistic things in the game but at a BASIC level there has to be SOME sense of a baseline of where such a fictional world would be at at this point in the games history. There's a difference between implementing what's "unreal" to make a game more interesting/fun and simply making a game stupid as a consequence of a lack of any deeper thinking.
     
  19. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Merged into some similar thread.
     
  20. dingohunternigel

    dingohunternigel First time out of the vault

    25
    Jan 16, 2009
    First off, there are plenty of wood planes. Piper cubs, Luscombes, even the ME 262 was a wooden airframe.
    Fuel can be re-worked from the gellied avgas that'd be left sitting at airfields. The engine might be a problem, but I'm sure one could find aircraft engine producing factories with them in boxes, like they ship in for kit airplanes, which would prevent the rusting.

    Frankly, it would be perfectly plausible to have working aircraft within a decade of a nuclear war, radiation permitting.

    This is completely apart from any discussion of Tenpenny, which is just an idiotic, not-at-all-thought-out character from BethSoft.

    Oh, and you can land a plane on a county road, or even a field, perfectly well. (what, you think Kitty Hawk was paved?)