The real issues with Fallout 3, in my opinion.

[Crni Vuk]

the issue with such equpipment like planes, ships or similar high technology is not to find it actualy after 200 years and a war. The real issue is maintenance. Not everything in such a complicated machine is made to last for decades. And replacing this parts does need some knowledge. And even if that somewhat was managed you still need to know how to "use" it. Flying a plane or manoeuvring a bit ship isnt a thing you learn over night.

As Ausir said. Its really questionable why someone would come to the US from Brittain if he has such skills that he can repair either a big ship or plane. With such skills and working equipment he could become rich everywhere in the Fallout world.

 

[Nalano]

There's handwaving how military equipment lasts 200 years of neglect, there's handwaving how civilian equipment lasts 200 years of neglect (especially considering how explosively volatile a lot of those wrecks are), and then there's handwaving how grocery stores manage to still have edible food on their shelves despite 200 years of looting as the only viable economy.

Hell, within an hour of playing you come across a supermarket used as a raider base that still had packaged food in the refrigerators and medicine in the first aid kits. It didn't look like it got ransacked 200 years ago. It looked like it got ransacked four hours before you showed up.

Some stuff was mentioned on the NPCs' accents. I'd like to add to that: How Jericho can have a Noo Yawka accent, how Moira can have a Wiscawnsin accent, how Moriarti can have a lilting Irish brogue despite the fact that they've all been living in isolation for 200 years after the socialization that maintains accents died with the locations that spawned them. If you're raised in a waste-born settlement your accent will be of that settlement. You can't have an accent all your own.

I mean, there can't be a New York accent if New York was blown away two centuries ago and there is clearly no descendant culture from it. Fallouts 1 and 2 basically had generic American accents, which is what one would imagine would survive if nobody managed to live except the descendants of selected citizens of 50s Americana in underground vaults.

Hell, even when there's a clear correlation between two cultures in time and space they tend to sound nothing like each other. We certainly don't sound like America circa 1809.

Then again, this all could have been fixed if they slapped their writers on Day Two and said to themselves, "why have this 200 years after armageddon? Why not have it 20 years after armageddon? That makes more sense..."

 

[Oddball_E8]

Fallouts 1 and 2 basically had generic American accents, which is what one would imagine would survive if nobody managed to live except the descendants of selected citizens of 50s Americana in underground vaults.

ok, im gonna have to stop you right there...

one of the first guys you run into in fallout 1 has a distinctly non-american accent...
the elder in that village right next to your vault (i forget what its called, but his daughter gets kidnapped by raiders)
and there are other examples too...

i like to step on the foul creation that is bethesdas fallout 3 as much as the next guy, but i had to point this out...
because sometimes people get carried away in their ferver to slander F3 so much that they forget the fact that fallout 1 and 2 were not perfect... they were great, but not flawless...

 

[Per]

Aradesh was part of an ethnic group from Vault 15. A much better example would be Loxley taking the time to somehow cultivate a foreign accent, although with the awesomeness of his dialogue I can easily forgive that.

 

[nemetoad]

Aye, Fallout 1 and 2 were full of accents, many of which had no real explanation. Take...Arroyo for example. It's a tribe, so tribal accent makes sense....throw in that it's decended from Vault Dwellers who left with Fallout 1's hero and the accent makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Per]

Funnily enough I can't remember anything about an "Arroyo accent".

 

[generalissimofurioso]

The only tribal who talked funny was Sulik.

And he was ten-times more awesome than anyone in Fallout 3.

 

[Ausir]

A much better example would be Loxley taking the time to somehow cultivate a foreign accent, although with the awesomeness of his dialogue I can easily forgive that.

According to Chris Taylor, he imitated the accent from pre-war Robin Hood holotapes.

 

[Shattering Fast]

The only tribal who talked funny was Sulik.

And he was ten-times more awesome than anyone in Fallout 3.

Then again, he was from an entirely different tribe than the Arroyo tribals...perhaps it began as some sort of Rasta commune, blended with elements from voodoo and Santeria (hence the ancestor worship)...

 

[Public]

Dude, this is a post-apo setting. There are no teachers around so people learn the language by themselves.

Go take a little tour around England's provinces (Yorkshire, Bedfordshire, etc), in every different province, people speak in different accents. Why? Nobody knows!

 

[Nalano]

Vault 15's experiment was to pack as many different ethnicities and cultures into one cramped area as possible and see what happens. (the answer? curiosity and tolerance)

Fallout 2 explained tribal accents: Out in the wastes where practically ALL technology and travel (and writing) was gone, people reverted to, well, tribes. (which is how you get regional accents anyway: Isolation)

Plus, Fallout 1 was 50 years after armageddon, not 200. ie: In one generation, not 4+.

Sulik's granted awesomeness with the Rule of Cool anyway.

4+ generations should practically wipe all historical context away from one's accent, especially if one - like Moira, Jericho or Moriarti - is the only person to speak that way. I mean, at least give a nod where they're stuck alone with a working television and one functional video of Fargo or something.

But, like I said before, it wouldn't be so egregious if they just said 50 years, not 200.

 

[Tagaziel]

No, Fallout 1 was 80 years after the war, with three generations passing.

 

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

To the original poster:

Dude, it's a GAME. It's not meant to be a scientific study of a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

First, you point out that Fallout 3 lacks a certain logic when dealing with things like economy and radiation, etc, and you say that the first Fallout makes much more sense in those areas.

Right. Has it ever occurred to you that the currency system used in the first Fallout game is based on bottle caps? How about the fact that people wear steel plate in the desert, or that leather padding is used in an attempt to ward off bullets? The fact is, the original Fallout is completely riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions of logic. But none of that matters because it's so COOL. That's what counts, that nearly impossible to quantify intangible, coolness. Fallout has it in spades, and, frankly, so does Fallout 3.

The only valid point you've made is about the Children of the Atom not being furious with you after you deactivate Megaton's bomb. It's a genuine problem with the story and a legitimate complaint, and one that I think you're right in making. Other than that, you need to relax.

Second, in my opinion the liberties with reality taken by Bethesda in making Fallout 3 are perfectly justified, if only because it keeps the atmosphere of Fallout alive. Let's face it, after a full decade has passed from the release of the original Fallout, the post-apocalyptic atmosphere is the only thing that can be kept the same, and I think Bethesda did a fine job of it. Hell, they even kept the Road Warrior leather jacket, which was the coolest looking armor in the entire series. The feel of the game is loyal to the original Fallout, and that's the most important thing.

In the end it's style that counts, and Fallout 3 has got it to the gills.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

So they copied and glued what you liked.

Nothing excuses ridiculous shit like super hero wannabees, or a super secret government organization which master plan is waiting for someone else to make something like a water purifier which they can use, but not fix themselves or even make one of their own to carry out a repeat of an earlier scheme.

 

[Tagaziel]

Right. Has it ever occurred to you that the currency system used in the first Fallout game is based on bottle caps?

It's a currency backed by the Hub merchants.

Early trading cultures used shells or other small trinkets as currency, what's wrong with merchants choosing sturdy, plentiful yet unique caps as currency?

How about the fact that people wear steel plate in the desert, or that leather padding is used in an attempt to ward off bullets? The fact is, the original Fallout is completely riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions of logic.

Fail. It's all part of the aesthetic and is versimiliar - consistent internally. Fallout 3 is not.

But none of that matters because it's so COOL.

It's cool and consistent. Another c&c.

That's what counts, that nearly impossible to quantify intangible, coolness. Fallout has it in spades, and, frankly, so does Fallout 3.

Doubtful.

The only valid point you've made is about the Children of the Atom not being furious with you after you deactivate Megaton's bomb. It's a genuine problem with the story and a legitimate complaint, and one that I think you're right in making. Other than that, you need to relax.

Let's see, how many people spouted the exact same bullshit you do? Tens. You're not original, insightful or intelligent.

Second, in my opinion the liberties with reality taken by Bethesda in making Fallout 3 are perfectly justified, if only because it keeps the atmosphere of Fallout alive.

Too bad we don't share your low standards.

Let's face it, after a full decade has passed from the release of the original Fallout, the post-apocalyptic atmosphere is the only thing that can be kept the same, and I think Bethesda did a fine job of it.

We've debated it before. A niche title doesn't need modernization of Bethesda's type.

Hell, they even kept the Road Warrior leather jacket, which was the coolest looking armor in the entire series. The feel of the game is loyal to the original Fallout, and that's the most important thing.

Fail. Fallout's been stated by it's creators to be more than just style, so you are plain WRONG.

In the end it's style that counts, and Fallout 3 has got it to the gills.

See above.

 

[TheManWhoWouldBeDead]

Right. Has it ever occurred to you that the currency system used in the first Fallout game is based on bottle caps?

It's a currency backed by the Hub merchants.

Early trading cultures used shells or other small trinkets as currency, what's wrong with merchants choosing sturdy, plentiful yet unique caps as currency?

How about the fact that people wear steel plate in the desert, or that leather padding is used in an attempt to ward off bullets? The fact is, the original Fallout is completely riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions of logic.

Fail. It's all part of the aesthetic and is versimiliar - consistent internally. Fallout 3 is not.

But none of that matters because it's so COOL.

It's cool and consistent. Another c&c.

That's what counts, that nearly impossible to quantify intangible, coolness. Fallout has it in spades, and, frankly, so does Fallout 3.

Doubtful.

The only valid point you've made is about the Children of the Atom not being furious with you after you deactivate Megaton's bomb. It's a genuine problem with the story and a legitimate complaint, and one that I think you're right in making. Other than that, you need to relax.

Let's see, how many people spouted the exact same bullshit you do? Tens. You're not original, insightful or intelligent.

Second, in my opinion the liberties with reality taken by Bethesda in making Fallout 3 are perfectly justified, if only because it keeps the atmosphere of Fallout alive.

Too bad we don't share your low standards.

Let's face it, after a full decade has passed from the release of the original Fallout, the post-apocalyptic atmosphere is the only thing that can be kept the same, and I think Bethesda did a fine job of it.

We've debated it before. A niche title doesn't need modernization of Bethesda's type.

Hell, they even kept the Road Warrior leather jacket, which was the coolest looking armor in the entire series. The feel of the game is loyal to the original Fallout, and that's the most important thing.

Fail. Fallout's been stated by it's creators to be more than just style, so you are plain WRONG.

In the end it's style that counts, and Fallout 3 has got it to the gills.

See above.

Mikael Grizzly, you can't be serious. Are you actually trying to defend the realism of Fallout?

Fine, if you want to play that game, the realism game, you wouldn't be playing any game at all. The fact of the matter is, in the event of nuclear war, NOBODY would survive. The world would be pancaked, and even if you had managed to live inside of a vault, when you opened it there'd be no society to return to. Would that make you happier?

For fuck's sake, listen to yourself! You're trying to justify the ridiculousness of the original Fallout, while simultaneously knocking Fallout 3 for the same sort of toying with reality. Is that consistent? Even the creators of the original Fallout poked fun at themselves for stretching the truth, like, for example, when you talk to the fellow in Junktown whose door Dogmeat is blocking. He tells you that the man originally owning the dog wore a black leather jacket, and adds "Like that's a good idea in the desert!".

Even the original Fallout's creators recognized how ridiculous some of its aspects are, so why are you, and many others apparently, so hell-bent on castigating Bethesda for doing taking the exact same liberties?

Fallout is the computer game equivalent of a B-movie. It's cheesy, campy, and, at times, downright ridiculous, but that's what makes it so much FUN. Fallout 3 is a B-movie made with a big budget. It's campy and cheesy, and just as ridiculous, but looks prettier. If the original Fallout is Evil Dead, then Fallout 3 is Planet Terror. And that's not a bad thing. Cherish the original for what's great about it, but don't become so bitter about things changing that you blind yourself to Fallout 3's good points. Harping on stagnation just makes you look like a crotchety luddite.

 

[alec]

The fact is, the original Fallout is completely riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions of logic. But none of that matters because it's so COOL.

Uhm... no. None of these matter because the game was never intended to be realistic.

That's what counts, that nearly impossible to quantify intangible, coolness.

Uhm... no. Under that thin layer of what you refer to as 'coolness' lies a complicated system of maths, game mechanics, dialogue trees constructed by creative writers, etcetera. They are what ultimately counts.

Other than that, you need to relax.

Hey kettle!

Let's face it, after a full decade has passed from the release of the original Fallout, the post-apocalyptic atmosphere is the only thing that can be kept the same

Oh? And why would that be? Do elaborate.

Hell, they even kept the Road Warrior leather jacket, which was the coolest looking armor in the entire series.

Say what? Keeping the Road Warrior armour somehow makes everything alright?

So if I make a Road Warrior Armour Mod for The Sims 2 this week, I should expect Fallout fans to fall in love with The Sims 2?

What you say doesn't make much sense.

The feel of the game is loyal to the original Fallout, and that's the most important thing.

Please define 'the feel'.
How can a sequel that threw away the game mechanics of the previous games still have the same 'feel'?

In the end it's style that counts, and Fallout 3 has got it to the gills.

Please define what you mean with 'style' for it is not clear to me.

 

[Per]

TheManWhoWouldBeDead, you're confusing realism with believability and consistency and therefore your arguments fall flat.

 

[Tagaziel]

Mikael Grizzly, you can't be serious. Are you actually trying to defend the realism of Fallout?

Fallout doesn't need defending. It's realistic in it's own retrofuturistic way, something people like you are seemingly unable to comprehend.

Fine, if you want to play that game, the realism game, you wouldn't be playing any game at all. The fact of the matter is, in the event of nuclear war, NOBODY would survive. The world would be pancaked, and even if you had managed to live inside of a vault, when you opened it there'd be no society to return to. Would that make you happier?

I wonder how many times do we have to state "Fallout is based on how people in the 50s perceived nuclear war and the future" before people actually understand what that means?

For fuck's sake, listen to yourself! You're trying to justify the ridiculousness of the original Fallout, while simultaneously knocking Fallout 3 for the same sort of toying with reality.

You parents must've been real happy when the No Child Left Behind policy was enacted, you'd finally graduate first class!

Reading comprehension: Fallout is internally consistent. Fallout 3 is not. You have to be real dense not to understand that.

Is that consistent? Even the creators of the original Fallout poked fun at themselves for stretching the truth, like, for example, when you talk to the fellow in Junktown whose door Dogmeat is blocking. He tells you that the man originally owning the dog wore a black leather jacket, and adds "Like that's a good idea in the desert!".

Your leaps of logic are astounding. How is a small nod to Mad Max "poking fun at self"?

Even the original Fallout's creators recognized how ridiculous some of its aspects are, so why are you, and many others apparently, so hell-bent on castigating Bethesda for doing taking the exact same liberties?

Fallout was designed as a reality that works in accordance with how the future was perceived by people of the 1950s. It was never realistic, as it isn't governed by laws of our reality.

The core problem here is that everything in Fallout and much of Fallout 2 was designed to be internally consistent. Versimiliar (tough word, ask your mum to read you the dictionary definition).

Fallout 3 is defined by the rule of cool. It doesn't even try to create a convincing, internally consistent world.

Fallout is the computer game equivalent of a B-movie. It's cheesy, campy, and, at times, downright ridiculous, but that's what makes it so much FUN. Fallout 3 is a B-movie made with a big budget. It's campy and cheesy, and just as ridiculous, but looks prettier. If the original Fallout is Evil Dead, then Fallout 3 is Planet Terror. And that's not a bad thing. Cherish the original for what's great about it, but don't become so bitter about things changing that you blind yourself to Fallout 3's good points. Harping on stagnation just makes you look like a crotchety luddite.

It's bether to be perceived as a crothcety luddite than be a stupid person who doesn't do any research before coming to the oldest Fallout fansite on the web and spout uneducated bullshit.

 

[Ausir]

Vault 15's experiment was to pack as many different ethnicities and cultures into one cramped area as possible and see what happens. (the answer? curiosity and tolerance)

Not really, aside from Shady Sands, people of Vault 15 formed 3 raider groups (Khans, Jackals and Vipers).