The Ultimate Movie Thread of Ultimate Destiny

getting uppity about historical accuracy is kind of dumb.
So, like I've said for the third time now, it was never about historical accuracy, and it was always about how the blatant hit-you-over-the-head "this is fantastical nonsense" broke any and all suspension of disbelief that held me "in" the movie. Get that through your head. What's dumb is you being unable to understand that when I say "it's not about historical accuracy" that I'm saying it's not about historical accuracy. =P
 
It's funny, I had the same response the first time I heard of it and the first time I saw the movie. But through the context of an interrelated, b-movie type tarantinoverse not taking itself seriously It's perfectly okay with me. None of the other events in the movie happen, so what's the problem with this? Carving a swastika in the forehead so deeply as they did with Hans in the end is unbelievable too, so why is this more of a problem?
 
I was all into Back to the Future, but then it said that Chuck Berry stole Jhonny Be Goode and I could no longer take it seriously.
 
I don't understand how this is such a hard concept to grasp. So one by one...

It's funny, I had the same response the first time I heard of it and the first time I saw the movie. But through the context of an interrelated, b-movie type tarantinoverse not taking itself seriously
Had nothing to do with "not taking the movie seriously". It was a gut-punch of "THIS IS A MOVIE" so severe it killed the suspension of disbelief. Suspension of disbelief isn't JUST letting one self go along with a completely impractical premise because it's sold so well, it's also just allowing yourself to go with the flow of a story in general. It's a vital component of immersion. The blatantly and over-the-top fictional glorification just went against all efforts to draw the audience into the movie. It sabotaged itself.

Early on in the film, when the two characters speak in French for several minutes for the officer to ask if they may speak in English because he doesn't want to continue butchering the Frenchman's language, you know in the back of your head that the real reason is so the entire scene isn't spent subtitled and so English speaking audience members who don't know either German or French get to just take in the scene without fixating on words at the bottom of the screne. You know this, but it doesn't interrupt your immersion into the film, because it's pulled off as a seasmless aspect OF the scene. There's no interruption, no pause where the actors acknowledge that foreign languages are "inconvenient". It's unlikely for an early-40sin-France scenario for some random farmer to both know English fluently and prefer it to his own language with a notorious SS officer, so were one so inclined to be overly-analytical one could spot plenty of logical incongruities with that particular scene, but they still don't take the viewer out of the moment, because they flow together just right.

None of this is true with the Hitler murder scene. It just comes off as absurd, and it reminds you, "Oh yeah, this is a movie." Your immersion has been severed. You're out of the film now. The actors never acknowledged the audience, but the scene itself still broke the fourth wall in such an irreparable way, it was the undoing of the entire film at that point. So it was a tragic waste of a good film to include such an absurd finale moment.

It's perfectly okay with me. None of the other events in the movie happen, so what's the problem with this?
That's just trying desperately to find excuses for the film. There was never a city in the U.S. named Gotham where some eccentric billionaire ever took up the mantle of a masked vigilante, but that doesn't mean it stopped me from getting pulled into The Dark Knight and enjoying it for the fantastic film that it is. Some of the special effects were sloppy enough that it drew attention to the film production (namely the truck flip), but that's besides the point, and I already covered that above. But events not having transpired are simply irrelevant. All kinds of things took place in WW2 that the history books either actively went out of their way to avoid bringing up, or simply never got around to covering. So for all I know, it's easily conceivable that an American team of all Jewish soldiers existed. There's nothing unfathomable about this premise, so I can accept it as a basis for the film. Obviously persecuted Jews made it out of the entire conflict in a variety of different ways, so I can imagine some lucky Jewish daughter managed to integrate herself into society under the Nazis' radar. Again, it's not whether the events never took place, it's that they were conceivable. Batman never existed, but the gadgets on his utility belt were designed to be physically probably, so I could accept his badassery throughout the film.

Carving a swastika in the forehead so deeply as they did with Hans in the end is unbelievable too, so why is this more of a problem?
Because it's little more than a gigantic sign pointing at the gunning down of Hitler, reading, "THIS IS A MOVIE!!!" Like I said several posts ago, several days ago, drawing audience attention towards the fact that they're watching a film DOES work under some circumstances. But it failed utterly and catastrophically for Inglorious Basterds, because the film never hinged on the audience realizing realizing this was all bullshit. No matter how ostentatious Tarantino films can get, they never relied on viewers expressly acknowledging that they're watching bullshit. Some random sicko store clerk and his cop brother abducting people from time to time and raping them? Not bullshit, so I need no prep or warning, and it won't take me out of the film. Yakuza being incredibly xenophobic and despising the notion that their new boss is "half-breed"? Not bullshit, so I've got no problem watching the scene it accompanies. Victim of brain damage recovering from a coma unable to move because her muscles have atrophied? Not bullshit, so watching her struggle to move her toes for several minutes as the mainstay of an entire scene in a ridiculously named "Pussy Wagon" car never takes me out of the scene. Carving swastikas in skin to vindictively acknowledge that corpses (and at the end of the film, a living person, for the rest of his life) were Nazis cannot be compared to shredding Hitler with an endless stream of bullets by suicidal soldiers decked out in dynamite in a theater that's being burned to the ground in terms of conceivability and plausibility. One sounds normal, if extreme, the other just sounds absurd.
 
FWIW, the title is "Johnny B. Goode." :razz:

I also thought Christoph Waltz was excellent in Django Unchained, as was J. Foxx. I also appreciated the Tom Wopat appearance as the marshall in the first town they visit, 'cause, you know, The Dukes of Hazzard.

Linearity or non-linearity is not really the issue for me when it comes to Tarantino. I just think he had a serious movie going with Django until he had to be silly at the end. It clashed with the tone of the story up to that point.

I've liked all his movies except the two Grindhouse movies which I found boring. Inglorious Bastardz is my least favorite after those because I also thought the ending was silly. The endings to Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs, for example, are not silly.

I re-watched Alien (because I started watching it one night while I was sick and couldn't stop), and it really makes Prometheus look even worse when you put them close together. I don't think I need to go into detail on that.

Django actually got me in a western mood, so I watched The Big Country from 1958 with Gregory Peck. It's one of the classics of the genre, I think.
 
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I re-watched Alien (because I started watching it one night while I was sick and couldn't stop), and it really makes Prometheus look even worse when you put them close together. I don't think I need to go into detail on that.
It's one of those thoughts I like to classify as "obvious, yet we feel like stating it anyway", like that the sky is blue.

I personally didn't have huge hang-ups with Prometheus because I wasn't really captivated by the Aliens franchise to begin with. I loved the first and second film, and when I found out about the "expanded universe" (if that's right to call it) between the Xenomorphs and the Predators, I thought that was pretty cool. But unlike some, Alien wasn't a huge movie to me that made up a major part of my cinematic life. So when AVP came out, I hated it because it was a terrible film, not because it was sacrilegious to the holy grail that is Alien. It was basically more of the same with Prometheus; I didn't enjoy it because it was an overall poor movie, but that's about the extent of it.
 
Alien is one of the most important films of my life - being one of my earliest memories - I watched it and 2001 when I was about 4 years old. I'd say those two films have had major impact on my life.
Aliens is tolerable to me, because I'm into whole "space marines" tropes and crap, and I liked the characters in that one, but in reality, all of the things I loved, and still love, in Alien are not present in the sequel, or have been changed.

The rest are shite. The whole expanded universe is shite. Predators creating Xenomorphs is shite. Even the Xenomorph term itself is shite.

I love the first Predator though. Great film, also one of my childhood favorites.
 
Aliens and Alien 3 have their qualities though. It is the studio that screwed the Franchise so much up that you have to be almost embarassed to call your self some Alien fan, thx to Alien 4 and AvP1+2. At this point I am not even sure how I would feel about some Alien 5. I mean they can't get back the roots since Giger is dead, RIP Giger! And I really don't like the idea of Sigourney kicking Alien buts from a wheelchair, that woman is almost 70 year old by now.
 
Aliens is tolerable to me, because I'm into whole "space marines" tropes and crap, and I liked the characters in that one, but in reality, all of the things I loved, and still love, in Alien are not present in the sequel, or have been changed...I love the first Predator though. Great film, also one of my childhood favorites.

I agree about this. I like Aliens and I think it's a good movie, but it's a pretty radical departure from the original. It's a Cameron-ized action version as opposed to the space horror of the first. Nobody's ever tried to replicate the tone of the first one.

Predator impressed me when I re-watched it (for the first time since I saw it in a theater when it was first released). I think it might be the best Arnold movie, actually. The story is very, very tight.

One thing I noticed about Prometheus - it absolutely lacked any of the hostile-organisms-crawling-through-ducts kind of infestation paranoia. That's kind of a hallmark of an Alien movie, even the bad ones. There's no suspense about a monster jumping out of the shadows, grabbing someone, and then vanishing.
 
It was discussed a few times why Prometheus fails. Though I guess they didn't try to simply repeat Alien on purpose. Which movie can do that anyway? It was or well is rather unique in its style. A lot of movies try to emulate it, but so far I have not seen any movie really succeeding with that. Not in science fiction at least. Maybe one movie that comes somewhat close in my opinion, would be Event Horizon, even if the premise is different, but I think the actors do for the most part a good job, and the movie in my opinion captured the dangers of space well enough. Prometheus could be even a good, hell a great movie! That is the sad part about it. But it fails for one reason really. Inconsistency and illogical actions. Most of the time actions by the protagonists simply make no sense. And that is really one of the strong points of Alien and also Aliens and Alien 3. The characters are believable and the situation more about realism. Particularly Alien. Truckers in space. Prometheus is not Scientists in space even, but about schmocks that randomly stumble around in some ancient alien-space ship making fools out of themselfs.
 
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Some games have done a great job of emulating Alien, or an amalgamation of several great classic horror movies. Dead Space being at the top of that list. Claustrophobic not-soldier everyman running for his life from alien predators to escape a doomed ship? Yes please! =D

But as pointed out by others, it emulates more than just Alien; Event Horizon, The Thing, Dawn of the Dead, it has some of the best elements of all of them, and it's a great game. Perfect horror? No. But one of the best to come out of the last generation of games. Certainly one of the best in the previous decade.
 
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