Trump is winning

Crni Vuk said:
Uhm? Yeah? And your point is, that he has an opinion on how to do things once he is a president? Big deal. Why don't you also look at his record, which isn't very stellar either. How many presidents or actually respectable business owners do you know that have been involved in so many different lawsuits. But I guess just to mention that makes one a Trump hater too ...
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Did you not see the post where I LITERALLY ATTACKED TRUMP FOR BEING HISTORICALLY ANTI-UNION. Jesus mate.

If his speches mean so little, then why have them? They certainly are what gets a lot of votes and attention for him. So I should completely ignore those? Speches and ralies tell us a lot about the kind of character a person is. So I don't see why it is wrong to also take a look at those. His whole position could (and most probably will) change if he becomes President. I can only judge people in a fair manner for what they do and what they say, not for what they say they might do.
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Because attacking character is a pathos argument, not a logos argument. If you're going to persuade anyone, a logical argument is the only argument that cannot be ruled irrelevant by bias or opinion. And considering neither GM nor I are Trump supporters, there's no reason to try and persuade us anyways.
 
Lol, after Courier's post I thought "lol, cue in all the Trump-support even despite this, maybe some attitudes of 'but indians ARE violent!'"

Yes, yes, all he did was compete. Everything else within reason, right TheGM? Nothing but competition, to take note of right? Because since indians ARE violent, inherently, the only thing here to take note of is the competitive spirit. Gotcha.
 
You see racism probably because you see racism everywhere, under every tree, behind every rock, and in the smiles on children's faces.

I on the other hand see desperation with that. It's known at the time that Trump's casinos weren't doing too hot and the last thing he needed was competition. So let's bring up the very real problem with drugs and violence on reservations as a way to try and sway public opinion away from letting them open up a casino.

Casinos like that would open up in neighboring states and it killed Atlantic City. Because honestly nobody is going to go to New Jersey unless they really have to.
 
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Operation Wignut said:
Did you not see the post where I LITERALLY ATTACKED TRUMP FOR BEING HISTORICALLY ANTI-UNION. Jesus mate.



Because attacking character is a pathos argument, not a logos argument. If you're going to persuade anyone, a logical argument is the only argument that cannot be ruled irrelevant by bias or opinion. And considering neither GM nor I are Trump supporters, there's no reason to try and persuade us anyways.
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Then I am not sure what you're trying to tell me ... that I can't critice his speches? This might be a language thing.

I am not trying to persuade anyone, all I am saying is that Trumps speches are in my opinion quite often full of xenophobia and racism, and that he has very little sence of political manners - which was shown by him attacking a gold star family.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Then I am not sure what you're trying to tell me ... that I can't critice his speches? This might be a language thing.

I am not trying to persuade anyone, all I am saying is that Trumps speches are in my opinion quite often full of xenophobia and racism, and that he has very little sence of political manners - which was shown by him attacking a gold star family.
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I don't know, I just felt like there as some aggressiveness coming from you.

How about this: we both agree Trump is a bad candidate. There.
 
And now Donald ''I'm a winner'' Trump is apparently calling the election fraudulent ahead of schedule, you know, probably in case he loses and can blame it on something else than he putting his foot in his mouth almost daily at the moment. Some polls are putting Hilary almost 10% ahead of him. Of course, that's highly unlikely to be true come election day, but still impressive nevertheless.

It also takes some nerve for a Republican to say after what happened in 2000. But I guess if there's one thing none can say of Trump, it's that he lacks nerve.

That said, I agree with Wignut. Attacking Trump's character is easy, but not very useful. Albeit I do think he's an immensely self-centered man that simply doesn't have the right attitude to be President of anything, that's far from the only argument that can be used against him. His stated policies, as well as his somewhat shaky history in business (in terms of morals, not success), are more than enough reason to never want him in the Oval Office if you ask me.

I mean, not that I have a say in all that, being Canadian, but still.
 
zegh8578 said:
Lol, after Courier's post I thought "lol, cue in all the Trump-support even despite this, maybe some attitudes of 'but indians ARE violent!'"

Yes, yes, all he did was compete. Everything else within reason, right TheGM? Nothing but competition, to take note of right? Because since indians ARE violent, inherently, the only thing here to take note of is the competitive spirit. Gotcha.
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No, no. Indians don't gamble at Indian Casinos, slobby white people do, especially upstate. If the implication that peripheral crime would rise around a casino, it would be by the people in that area - white people. Nobody is claiming armies of whooping Apaches in full war paint are going to be drawn out by the casino and start raiding upstate NY. That's silly. I'm not sure that he's going out of his way to attack indians just for the sake of attacking indians. He's attacking a competitor in typical tactless, buffoonish, Trump style.
I don't think he's using it as an ulterior motive to promote his anti-indian bent. He's just trying to screw whoever stands dares compete against him.

It's pretty apparent, especially this week, that you can bait Trump into saying really dumb things. He can't help himself.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
No, no. Indians don't gamble at Indian Casinos, slobby white people do, especially upstate. If the implication that peripheral crime would rise around a casino, it would be by the people in that area - white people. Nobody is claiming armies of whooping Apaches in full war paint are going to be drawn out by the casino and start raiding upstate NY. That's silly. I'm not sure that he's going out of his way to attack indians just for the sake of attacking indians. He's attacking a competitor in typical tactless, buffoonish, Trump style.
I don't think he's using it as an ulterior motive to promote his anti-indian bent. He's just trying to screw whoever stands dares compete against him.

It's pretty apparent, especially this week, that you can bait Trump into saying really dumb things. He can't help himself.
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Someone described him as "the man that can be baited by a single tweet", or something like that. Dystopia world is here, pals...
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
No, no. Indians don't gamble at Indian Casinos, slobby white people do, especially upstate. If the implication that peripheral crime would rise around a casino, it would be by the people in that area - white people. Nobody is claiming armies of whooping Apaches in full war paint are going to be drawn out by the casino and start raiding upstate NY. That's silly. I'm not sure that he's going out of his way to attack indians just for the sake of attacking indians. He's attacking a competitor in typical tactless, buffoonish, Trump style.
I don't think he's using it as an ulterior motive to promote his anti-indian bent. He's just trying to screw whoever stands dares compete against him.

It's pretty apparent, especially this week, that you can bait Trump into saying really dumb things. He can't help himself.
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Yeah, I really don't think there's that much malice in Trump. He's not someone who hates a particular group, I think. He just doesn't give a single flying fuck about anyone or anything but himself, lacks tact and sensitivity, and isn't afraid of showing all that.

Some people think those traits make him awesome, well more power to them I suppose.

But I think that if the Democrat war machine plays their cards right, they can bait him into continually saying dumb things with people calling his character/policies out. We'll see if he's capable of getting a hold on himself in the coming weeks, especially once the debates start (they still do those, right?). Because I'm pretty sure he's doomed if he continues the I'm-a-winner-and-give-no-fucks-about-anyone-lulz routine. The polls sure didn't like it, looks like.
 
Operation Wignut said:
I don't know, I just felt like there as some aggressiveness coming from you.

How about this: we both agree Trump is a bad candidate. There.
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Oh I can assure you that there is definetly a sense of agressivenss. But that's more because I am so baffled how far the politics in the US has come. A loud, obnoxious, vulgar billionair might become the next President of one of the most powerfull nations. My agressive tone, is not aimed at you or anyone here in particular ;).
You know, I just think what's next? Breitbart as President? Or Alex Jones?

Cimmerian Nights said:
It's pretty apparent, especially this week, that you can bait Trump into saying really dumb things. He can't help himself.
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Yes, and now imagine this attitude in something as highly complex like diplomacy and foreign policy, and you and everyone else knows why I find his speches so important. I am not ONLY looking at those. I am also keeping his history in mind and his achievements, the fact that he had like how many law suits by now? Where some directly call him a fraud. And Trump has literaly always been like that, and a lot of people who made buisness with him describe him in a similar way. His character is very important, because this is what matters here. Trump isn't really known for his vast knowledge or experience. He's not a Teddy Roosevelt who was known to be very well-read about all kinds of topics.

When we look at presidents, what we remember, is their character. The way they kinda acted. Even if that is not always accurate.
 
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Eh, you're being a drama queen as usual. There's not even that much coherence or forethought to Trump to be read in to.

You don't need to get that worked up about it. Obama was radically different than Bush and how much difference did he make in terms of policy?
 
Ask the people who die daily from drone strikes or the people in the middle east about his policy. Let us say someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Putin would use drones to kill people of which a large amount would be civilians. What do you think would Europe or the US say? What would be the response of our politicans. Obviously they would condemn it.
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
Eh, you're being a drama queen as usual. There's not even that much coherence or forethought to Trump to be read in to.

You don't need to get that worked up about it. Obama was radically different than Bush and how much difference did he make in terms of policy?
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You think that's bad? That's exactly what's wrong with Shillary, no changes.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Ask the people who die daily from drone strikes or the people in the middle east about his policy. Let us say someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Putin would use drones to kill people of which a large amount would be civilians. What do you think would Europe or the US say? What would be the response of our politicans. Obviously they would condemn it.
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I don't get the hypothetical, where's the connection?
 


This is really how i feel on the matter. a bit of satire but a hint of truth to it. Beyond trump being an idiot. I feel Hillary Clinton being an even bigger buffoon in someways with her connections to wallstreet, goldmansach's, Supporter of TTP, NAFTA etc and her in general flip flopping on policies never-mind her hawk like approach to foreign policy.


They both are shit but meh.
 
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