Update 1.3 Lies

DirtyOldShoe said:
You sir are incorrect. Stop. You do not understand what bugs are or fixes. You do not have working knowledge of these things. Stop bitching about pointing out Bethesda's lies already. Aren't you supposed to be working on a mod? All bugs are different, some bugs are global and some are local and some are not even bugs. If you read my op you would know this, but alas, you did not and you write out of ignorance. Please learn how bugs work and what is classified as a bug before posting about bugs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_testing
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how is statement that so complex game as f4 will have bugs, and that there is literary nothing in real world to prevent it?
 
Martin said:
how is statement that so complex game as f4 will have bugs, and that there is literary nothing in real world to prevent it?
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F4 complex? How? Like having the options in quests to shoot the baddies now, or shoot them later? Like, finding Kellogg and decide which version of 'Fuck You' to say, and then have no other option but to kill him?
 
Immortalkickass said:
F4 complex? How? Like having the options in quests to shoot the baddies now, or shoot them later? Like, finding Kellogg and decide which version of 'Fuck You' to say, and then have no other option but to kill him?
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ever played around with geck or creation kit? ever made scripts? try it. its hard to make it bug proof.
 
Martin said:
how is statement that so complex game as f4 will have bugs, and that there is literary nothing in real world to prevent it?
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I Have experience with these things. I choose to remain anonymous. You are excusing Bethesda as "their world is open and some bugs are to be expected." This is not true. "There is no way they could get them all." Somewhat true. But it is clear with all of their games, testing is not a priority for them and I suspect they have guided testing now and dismissed glaring issues. FO:NV never crashes for me, because of the mods installed. Skyrim needs mods to fix the 1.9 update. But the games are now stable. This is a separate issue though. If you read my post you would have noticed it is called lies, because what Bethesda is classifying as a bug fix, is not a bug. It is damage control for poor development choices. I don't mind repeating myself a few times, if there is hope that you may see the light.
 
Martin said:
ever played around with geck or creation kit? ever made scripts? try it. its hard to make it bug proof.
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Yes yes and yes. A novice modder could make Fallout 4's quests. The scripts are basic and look for conditions. Plus it only has 70 quests, It would take a standard modder no more then 2 months to build the quests, 2 months for voice actors, 5 months for testing. There are better modded quests with longer more complex scripting for NV then Fallout 4.
 
Martin said:
ever played around with geck or creation kit? ever made scripts? try it. its hard to make it bug proof.
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Just because you don't know how, doesn't mean its impossible. Like someone mentioned earlier, its apparent you don't have any knowledge on how bugs work. They are not some little snowflake that appears when you mix and match the brands of the components in your rig.
 
DirtyOldShoe said:
I Have experience with these things. I choose to remain anonymous. You are excusing Bethesda as "their world is open and some bugs are to be expected." This is not true. "There is no way they could get them all." Somewhat true. But it is clear with all of their games, testing is not a priority for them and I suspect they have guided testing now and dismissed glaring issues. FO:NV never crashes for me, because of the mods installed. Skyrim needs mods to fix the 1.9 update. But the games are now stable. This is a separate issue though. If you read my post you would have noticed it is called lies, because what Bethesda is classifying as a bug fix, is not a bug. It is damage control for poor development choices. I don't mind repeating myself a few times, if there is hope that you may see the light.
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ahh. i got you wrong there. sorry for that. yea, some bug fixes looks like bandages for bad decisions. they atleast look like that. i speak of inevitable bugs. FNV for me crashed 4 times, vannila, and about unknown times modded. f4 didnt crashed single time. people seems to forget how bad it was with f3, oblivion, and... oh my gawd... morrowind. i speak of technicals here, not story or anything, just to be sure that noone takes it in wrong way. also, how long it took to stabilise skyrim? 5 years of constant patching? how long for f3? it still crashes too much without mods. oblivion too. there is just too much little differences here and there to make game bug proof even with whole army of testers. beth had 100. thats a pretty decent for closed development game. could have more tho.

my point is, bugs are inevitable. that beth tries to mask bandages for shitty story or quests as bugs, thats another story.
 
DirtyOldShoe said:
Yes yes and yes. A novice modder could make Fallout 4's quests. The scripts are basic and look for conditions. Plus it only has 70 quests, It would take a standard modder no more then 2 months to build the quests, 2 months for voice actors, 5 months for testing. There are better modded quests with longer more complex scripting for NV then Fallout 4.
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actually, not possible as of now. there are as of now. 2 semi-quests. modded. also, speak with any big mod developer. they will tell you how hard it is to make even semi decent big mod. "moonpath" for skyrim for example.
 
Immortalkickass said:
Just because you don't know how, doesn't mean its impossible. Like someone mentioned earlier, its apparent you don't have any knowledge on how bugs work. They are not some little snowflake that appears when you mix and match the brands of the components in your rig.
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suuure mate. definitely dont know how bugs work. totally. read up on what "shoe" said.
 
Martin said:
ahh. i got you wrong there. sorry for that. yea, some bug fixes looks like bandages for bad decisions. they atleast look like that. i speak of inevitable bugs. FNV for me crashed 4 times, vannila, and about unknown times modded. f4 didnt crashed single time. people seems to forget how bad it was with f3, oblivion, and... oh my gawd... morrowind. i speak of technicals here, not story or anything, just to be sure that noone takes it in wrong way. also, how long it took to stabilise skyrim? 5 years of constant patching? how long for f3? it still crashes too much without mods. oblivion too. there is just too much little differences here and there to make game bug proof even with whole army of testers. beth had 100. thats a pretty decent for closed development game. could have more tho.

my point is, bugs are inevitable. that beth tries to mask bandages for shitty story or quests as bugs, thats another story.
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Sorry, but you are still wrong.
Bugs are inevitable in beta and alpha but not in released game.
The only people that play without mods are on console and they generally do not have an informed opinion based on fact.
Morrowind is fairly stable now with the patch from the community, Oblivion still suffers from crashes most likely because it is a one core game. I don't play F3. FO:NV Never crashes now. Ever, for many people that know how to install mods and what the game limitations are for mods. Skyrim Was fixed by the community upon release, Bethesda updated the game and broke many parts. Modders fixed Bethesda's errors and it was still stable. Bethesda Broke Navmesh, Lip files, Phoneme, Memory logs and added thousands of dirty edits with their updates and DLCs, the modding community fixed all the errors rapidly and Skyrim has been stable consistent thanks to the many great modders out there. They do not get a pass. Especially because they are lying.

Martin said:
actually, not possible as of now. there are as of now. 2 semi-quests. modded. also, speak with any big mod developer. they will tell you how hard it is to make even semi decent big mod. "moonpath" for skyrim for example.
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You sound like a console player or someone who does not mod. As I stated, I have experience, you should get better at surfing the internet. I am telling you that it is not that difficult. It takes tenacity, focus and desire. In an effort to not mention any specific mods, there are MANY that kill Fallout 4 in complexity.
 
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DirtyOldShoe said:
Sorry, but you are still wrong.
Bugs are inevitable in beta and alpha but not in released game.
The only people that play without mods are on console and they generally do not have an informed opinion based on fact.
Morrowind is fairly stable now with the patch from the community, Oblivion still suffers from crashes most likely because it is a one core game. I don't play F3. FO:NV Never crashes now. Ever, for many people that know how to install mods and what the game limitations are for mods. Skyrim Was fixed by the community upon release, Bethesda updated the game and broke many parts. Modders fixed Bethesda's errors and it was still stable. Bethesda Broke Navmesh, Lip files, Phoneme, Memory logs and added thousands of dirty edits with their updates and DLCs, the modding community fixed all the errors rapidly and Skyrim has been stable consistent thanks to the many great modders out there. They do not get a pass. Especially because they are lying.
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so games are to be called alpha/beta versions if they have bugs? asking if i didnt interpret it incorrectly.
 
soooo. what? what do you refer to? cant find much connected stuff. just definition of testing.
 
Martin said:
soooo. what? what do you refer to? cant find much connected stuff. just definition of testing.
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Read under Methodology, is explains the types of testing, which, if you are astute, you will see what stage Fallout 4 is in. It is interesting to note that Bethesda did not do compliance testing for Skyrim on XBox or playstation (Globally looking at water crash on xbox and 1 fps while playing. PS not able to load the game for years). Functionality testing deals with game mechanics. So Bethesdas 100 testers didn't use copper when making power lines? All forms of testing are very important. Just like Quest is and Voice acting, it is all part of the big picture. All of these things need to be considered. The stage that Fallout 4 has been in for months is Beta. Not because it has bugs, but because they are using the community to do a mass play-test. This thread is about them saving face in a pathetic way labeling this a feature and that a fix when they made bad choices. Do I expect it to have no bugs? No, but claiming that Preston's quests are a bug is bullshit and I am calling them out. I know how radiant quests work. You can't accidentally have a cap of three. The list goes on, but it is all in the main op.
 
DirtyOldShoe said:
Read under Methodology, is explains the types of testing, which, if you are astute, you will see what stage Fallout 4 is in. It is interesting to note that Bethesda did not do compliance testing for Skyrim on XBox or playstation (Globally looking at water crash on xbox and 1 fps while playing. PS not able to load the game for years). Functionality testing deals with game mechanics. So Bethesdas 100 testers didn't use copper when making power lines? All forms of testing are very important. Just like Quest is and Voice acting, it is all part of the big picture. All of these things need to be considered. The stage that Fallout 4 has been in for months is Beta. Not because it has bugs, but because they are using the community to do a mass play-test. This thread is about them saving face in a pathetic way labeling this a feature and that a fix when they made bad choices. Do I expect it to have no bugs? No, but claiming that Preston's quests are a bug is bullshit and I am calling them out. I know how radiant quests work. You can't accidentally have a cap of three. The list goes on, but it is all in the main op.
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i didnt talk about beth putting bandaid on their shitty mechanics. thing is. 100 people testing so big game is utterly small number. and maybe they really intended preston to be like that. and now they want to save their ass. OR it was supposed to be in some other manner. but someone rushed the game and released unfinished game. thats another thing. still. my point was bugs. normal bug. real bugs.
 
Martin said:
so games are to be called alpha/beta versions if they have bugs? asking if i didnt interpret it incorrectly.
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Sorry for answering you.
Martin said:
i didnt talk about beth putting bandaid on their shitty mechanics. thing is. 100 people testing so big game is utterly small number. and maybe they really intended preston to be like that. and now they want to save their ass. OR it was supposed to be in some other manner. but someone rushed the game and released unfinished game. thats another thing. still. my point was bugs. normal bug. real bugs.
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Cool, maybe you should stay on topic to the OP or start your own thread then chump.
 
This thread turned to shit quickly. It was amusing until the midpoint and then lost its interesting points. Where is the RPGCodex when you need it the most. : )

So back onto topic, despite the shit and microaggressions, for reasons unknown. Because reasons; right Bethesda?
I can't say I'm all that shocked as it minds me of Skyrim when they were patching half of it while rewriting the other half. Though it would be funny if they "patch" in a new skills system. Probably would just make it a DLC because "You all asked for something hard to make.".

Wonder if the Steam summer sale will discount this would building box by 2/3rds. I'd rather just make it into Nehrim for me myself and no one else.
 
What sucks about patches is how they break all of your mods then you have to update them all, such a pain.

I would like to see an isometric mod for Fallout 4...Fallout 1 and 2 style with the talking heads.
 
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