Van Buren video

[SimpleMinded]

The real time combat was nasty.

Was it in fact real time? I do think I remember hearing about you "recharging" AP over time but I don't remember if that was with this or tactics. From the looks of the game, it still gave me an impression of turn based, though it looked like a simultaneous turn based to me. Then again, I know crap about this sort of thing.

 

[Sander]

Was it in fact real time? I do think I remember hearing about you "recharging" AP over time but I don't remember if that was with this or tactics. From the looks of the game, it still gave me an impression of turn based, though it looked like a simultaneous turn based to me. Then again, I know crap about this sort of thing.

Simultaneous turn-based is just a neat name for real-time combat. Tactics was real-time with recharching AP.

 

[wamingo]

Looks really good. More than FO3 worthy imo.
Let's see if bethesda can match it.

 

[Glowbewohner]

I Bet you guys have these game on your pc! Give it free for download!

 

[SimpleMinded]

Simultaneous turn-based is just a neat name for real-time combat. Tactics was real-time with recharching AP.

I don't know about that. It still gives the player time to decide what to do and to strategize on his next move. Not that I think it's a good system (as it reduces the overall segmentation of turn based combat, but still lacks the on the fly decisions of real time), but I feel like it is at least more balanced as there may be less chance to shoot/hide behind wall -> repeat.

 

[d2duke]

and those weapons from the video could be really hard to find.

In Fallout 1 armors, ammos and weapons were easy to find, probably FO2 was justified by the fact that the vault dweller and the other inabithants already got and used them.
And so it be in FO3, don't think it wil be in the west coast again, so anything could be.....

About the combat, i feel the better non turn-based was the one from Brigade E5 New Jagged Union, with a bit of debug.

 

[Sander]

I don't know about that. It still gives the player time to decide what to do and to strategize on his next move.

Er....no, it doesn't. The enemies don't stop moving, all it does is *force* you to stop and wait before you can make an action while you're being assaulted.

Not that I think it's a good system (as it reduces the overall segmentation of turn based combat, but still lacks the on the fly decisions of real time), but I feel like it is at least more balanced as there may be less chance to shoot/hide behind wall -> repeat.

That works as well. Besides, that's easily fixeable in a turn-based game via reactions/interrupts a la JA2.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Hrmmm... I'm not following. You mean that in the implemented system, you are forced to stop for turns but your opponents keep acting? So is it any different than real-time? I assumed that everyone makes decisions based on their AP, then all of those decisions are carried out, lather, rinse, repeat.

I understand what you're saying about interrupts but I don't see where a simultaneous system would be that poor.

Keeping on topic (though this is kind of on topic), I saw that joystiq posted about our video and received quite a few comments from fallout fans.

 

[Brother None]

I don't know about that. It still gives the player time to decide what to do and to strategize on his next move.

Continuous Turn Based was the name of the game, actually, boys. They made a lot of promises concerning that combat mode around Tactics. It didn't work half-bad, but not half-good either.

It is just form of realtime, but to claim it plays the same as standard realtime is wackazoid.

You mean that in the implemented system, you are forced to stop for turns but your opponents keep acting?

what, didn't you play Tactics? The system works the same for both sides; you act in real-time combat, but have to pause for your action points to reload when they run out.

 

[Sander]

Hrmmm... I'm not following. You mean that in the implemented system, you are forced to stop for turns but your opponents keep acting? So is it any different than real-time? I assumed that everyone makes decisions based on their AP, then all of those decisions are carried out, lather, rinse, repeat.

I understand what you're saying about interrupts but I don't see where a simultaneous system would be that poor.

You've got the way the system works all wrong. Everybody acts in *real-time*. That's it. The only thing the AP do is limit the actions you can take. Eg. if you have 3 AP, you can't shoot unless you wait for a bit, but you can walk 3 steps.

In my opinion it felt like real-time forcibly slowed down.

 

[stingray420]

There is a story about the video on Joystiq now

Jostiq story

Lots of Beth fanyboys in the comments too

 

[Briosafreak]

There is no real combat in the demo, that's something just to do something, neither combat systems were implemented at the time, and the Turn Based was going to be the priority.

Maybe you'll see that for yourselves, who knows, someday...

 

[Wooz]

Maaaay-beee...

 

[globbi]

There is no real combat in the demo, that's something just to do something, neither combat systems were implemented at the time, and the Turn Based was going to be the priority.

That should've been said in the news. Now everywhere the video goes people see someting that looks like RT combat.

 

[SimpleMinded]

what, didn't you play Tactics? The system works the same for both sides; you act in real-time combat, but have to pause for your action points to reload when they run out.

Play... Tactics? This forum pretty much has convinced me that it's not worth it .

I understand the combat now, miscommunication. Apologies.

 

[Brother None]

Play... Tactics? This forum pretty much has convinced me that it's not worth it .

I don't think that's completely fair. It fucked up on the setting here and there, but it got the look pretty right, and it's middling-to-good tactical shooter. You should at least try out the demo.

Heh, I have vivid memories of having to have a friend download the Tactics demo for me because I didn't have the 'net speed to download it.

Also, am I nuts or do we not have the demo on our files section? Should at that.

 

[welsh]

Actually the tactics demo is pretty good. It's a shame the game blows.

 

[Briosafreak]

There is no real combat in the demo, that's something just to do something, neither combat systems were implemented at the time, and the Turn Based was going to be the priority.

That should've been said in the news. Now everywhere the video goes people see someting that looks like RT combat.

I think a better explanation of what the demo has is being prepared by the NMA staff from data that is coming, but yeah maybe it should have been in the newspost. The vid looks sweet anyway though

 

[jesawyer]

Thanks for making that. There's a bunch of other stuff working in that demo, like the quest log, auto-map (you can toggle it by clicking on the text log in the corner, also viewable in the Lil' Pip 3000) and vault interior "quests", but most of that stuff isn't very spectacular to look at.

A few comments:

* Floating damage numbers were meant to be an option, thought it isn't in the options menu in the demo.

* The game was intended to be played either as turn-based or real-time. Because Jefferson was real-time, that was the first combat mode implemented for Van Buren. Even what's there is only partially working. There's no pause (super sucky) or called shots, but weapons did their proper damage types and values, armor resisted properly, and it actually did calculate hit location. In the combat log, it will say where the shots hit and the characters will float comments like, "GOD DAMMIT MY EYES!"

People who have played the demo may have seen a switch on the option screen for combat mode that reads "Ask Me". This would have prompted the player before every battle and asked him or her to select between the two modes.

* The female characters in the demo are on the male skeleton (whoops), which is why they look kind of... El Greco-ish and bizarre.

* True "Fallout-style" death animations were not in the demo because we had to figure out how to do them from a technical perspective. Jefferson wasn't going to have crazy death animations and 3D posed some new challenges for blowing out parts of creatures. It's one of the areas where T-Ray/Brian Menze's 2D work definitely had an edge.

* All males were on the same skeleton, which made it hard to pose the character correctly when he could be a thin character in a jumpsuit or a strong guy in power armor. That's why everyone's walking around "bow-armed" and only the PC's escort in power armor (Cpl. Armstrong) looks like he's in a proper stance. Chris Marleau was our sole animator. He worked really, really hard, but there was no way he could do full animation sets for two male skeletons for the demo deadline.

* The weapons in the demo were chosen either because they were traditional Fallout weapons or because their visual effects/sounds were appealing. The player wouldn't have started with any of that stuff in the actual game.

* Yeah calling Multiplayer "Play With a Friend" was kind of goofy.

 

[Brother None]

Thanks for the clarification, J.E., and good to see you again.