Wasted Potential

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Empty09, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Severite

    Severite First time out of the vault

    78
    Dec 19, 2008
    Wasted potential. Hmmm. Interesting and branching quest design. Meaningful companion system. Capitalizing on the "lonely" feeling of the old world, and loneliness, by putting gun runners, feral ghouls, raiders, and super mutants within a three block area, which is frigging rediculous.

    Pretty much any overt storytelling was a damn waste.
     
  2. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Strong gives a fairly good description of super mutant culture as part of his companion conversations once you get his approval high enough.

    He talks about how all super mutants see each other as brothers, and no super mutant truely owns anything, they all share everything they have with each other, they all try to work together to make the group better.
     
  3. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    I know that but they could have written a reason for it dude. The Institute is creating living breathing androids. They could crack the code of the Super Mutants transformation.
     
  4. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Sure, but then you would be sitting here complaining about how they raped the lore even more by having their super special Mary Sue scientists do what The Master couldn't.

    It would be like solving super mutant sterility. It would be fucking stupid, and it undermine the entire point that FEV doesn't work, and never really could.
     
  5. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    All of the East Coast super mutants just happened to become hostile from the mutation? Yeah I'm not buying it, that sounds like an excuse just so Bethesda can use them as target practice in their games.

    I was talking about non-hostile settlements that didn't involve me having to slaughter all of them. I did encounter these so called "settlements" but I had to be careful not to trip over all of the super mutant corpses on the way through them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  6. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    New Vegas and the West Coast has always been portrayed as better-off in terms of civilization. There is room for large settlements, including Jacobstown and New Vegas, and people are generally re-building what can be viewed as a civilization. In contrast, the East Coast as portrayed by Bethesda has always been a quagmire of war and despair, as Zimmer put it. D.C. and the Commonwealth are very dense cities with a lot of fighting and danger, whereas the West is much more spread out and developed. This, in part, explains the differences in super mutants - that the East Coast is by and large a total Wasteland and dense city areas are highly contested war zones without any centralized government or entity like the NCR or House serving as a stabilizing influence.

    I think this is a good thing if Bethesda keeps allowing Obsidian spinoffs, then we have two Fallout worlds to enjoy - one that is relatively more developed and the other that is a true Wasteland filled with danger at every turn.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    I agree with this, though I do hope that Obsidian goes somewhere away from the NCR a bit. Would love to see Chicago, see what the MwBoS has done to it. We hear in logs from Ed-E in Lonesome Road that theres people with working TVs, and access to pre-war shows lile Ralphie, over there.

    That's not really needed to explain the difference. The difference can be explained simply that different strain = different results.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    You would expect some change and improvement rather then the same thing happening for over hundreds of years. How many more Fallout games are going to still have you buying things with bottle caps and walking through abandoned towns filled with raiders or super mutants with over 200 year old food with locked terminals and pre-war safes untouched with NO progress?
    Society should be improving but I guess NPCs in Bethesda games prefer to live in shitholes with dust, broken desks, and skeletons everywhere.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  9. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    The easy solution to that is to set the game during the same time period but in different locations, or set the games as prequels.
     
  10. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    They rehashed the initial failure and then did nothing at all with it just to have YET AGAIN mindless orcs like in FO3. That's how creatively bankrupt they are. They made a bunch of Mary Sue scientists who failed to do anything interesting and just filled the wasteland with more orcs so their average fan can feel cool shooting at hulk screaming "Stupid HOOOOOOMAAAAN!" in a dumb voice.

    Except the Master did solved the intelligence issue, he didn't get to it because he was made aware of the sterility issue.


    Nobody would be crying about "lore rape" if, you know, they had actually done anything with it? New Vegas gave us Neil, Tabitha, Lily, Davidson and Keene along with many non hostile mutants. Fallout 4 gives us Strong and then all the other mutants are just brutish cannon fodder.

    They could've also, you know, not fucking rehash their own watered down rehash again? They could've easily come up with new creatures and origins for them, hell, that's something we have said. It was one of the things people here were actually glad about when they heard of the Institute. Nobody was demanding Super Mutants in all Fallout games, Bethesda just clings to it like a fanfic writter or a suburban teenager with a tribal tattoo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  11. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    >Because there is no such thing as history repeating itself.
    >Because there is no such thing as parallel development.
    >Because The Institute had any way of knowing that The Master failed at it for these very same reasons.... or that he even existed and tired this at all.
    >Because its not like the series whole motto is "war, war never changes"
    >Because Virgil possibly making a cure that could be used to undo all super mutants isn't a new thing.

    Uh huh.

    Except he didn't, he just discovered the issue and then tried to capture people who werent effected by radiation to avoid the issue. The Master never found the way to make smart mutants from irradiated people.

    All of which added absolutely nothing new to super mutant lore
    >Nightkin are still crazy and pranoid
    >Marcus is still trying to do his peaceful cooperation thing
    Welcome to Fallout 2.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  12. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    You know what yo ucall a sequel that just rehashes everything the previous entires did in a dumbed down way? A shitty sequel.

    "There is no such thing as history repeating itself"

    Are you even serious with these defenses? Again, Waht did they even do with it? Nothing. They did nothing interesting at all. They just rehsahed it to have Big dumb orc monsters again.

    Are you the kind of person that thinks that all star wars sequels should have the Death Star and Darth Vader?

    Your apologism doesn't even make sense when you said this:
    "I find watching and piecing together super mutant culture on the east coast far mroe itnerestign then just hearing the same re-hashed stuff from Fallout 1 again and again"

    to discredit praise for New Vegas actual interesting handling of the Super Mutants.

    Do you have some form of bipolar disorder or just dissociative episodes?

    "Virgil's cure!!!!"

    The one he states is not going to be useful for anything because it takes forever to take effect and it only works on one strain and the one he has no equipment to reproduce? Let's not also forget how stupid the idea of a "cure" for something that alters your bone and muscular structure is.... he even loses height.... it's completely stupid.

    Seriously dude, even you have to admit that the Super Mutants in FO4 added nothing, weren't interesting and that their inclusion was completely shallow.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 4
  13. Theinnerfish

    Theinnerfish Storytelling skeleton

    239
    Jul 25, 2015
    Super Mutant suiciders are fun?
     
  14. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Funny, everywhere else people would call a series that constantly finds new ways to use old material a series that cares about its lore, continuity, and the things that makes it special. Even Star Wars novels find ways to constantly integrate the ideas of the empire, and the Sith/Jedi conflict all throughout the timeline, because that is good writing. Even KOTOR 1+2, often considered the best star war side materials, did it. No well written series unvierse just tosses aside its key defining pieces. It would be like TES just throwing away the Daedra. Only bad writing allows such massive elements of a fictional unvierse to be tossed aside later.


    They did plenty with it by tying it into the history of The Institute, and using their failure at FEV as the reason behind why they kidnapped Shaun in the first place. At the same time, they echo past lore, and show a fundamental basis of the series unvierse that people keep trying the same things over and over, be it forms of government, petty racism, or technologies, with the same results, aka "war, war never changes".


    How is what I said in any way bipolar? do you even know what being bipolar means? How is constantly reiterating the fact that I didn't find New Vegas interesting, because its just repeated what we already knew, and didn't tie it to the overall plot of the game world, whereas Fallout 3/4 are new, since the super mutants aren't the like the ones in Fo1/2/NV, and it did tie its super mutant presence into the gameworld/overall plot, and are thus more interesting because of it, in any way bipolar? Iswear its like you only read every other sentence or something.


    Go back and play Fallout 1
    http://fallout.gamepedia.com/ZAX.MSG
    "No. FEV does not retain unaltered original copies of the subject's DNA. Only a virus which re-infected the subject with original DNA could reverse the effects. Additionally, there is no known way to remove the FEV itself."

    FEV could be undone as far back as Fallout 1, and is exactly what Virgil does. Whats more is that he says he still retains some of the augments of FEV, such as increased muscle mass, and hes apparently no longer bald, so he is still infected with FEV to some degree.

    He says he could possibly generalize the cure for other strains, but it may take decades. Also, if you side with the BoS, Lancer Captain Kells will agree to keep him alive because he found a cure, calling him an asset. Its very possible that by the time of Fallout 5 the BoS may be able to mass produce the cure and revert all the super mutants, or at least some of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  15. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Walp, forget it, Someguys flip-floping actually puts even Romney to shame.

    Something that is stupid in New Vegas for him, is suddenly alright in F4, for some strange reasons. Reality is only important when it helps his argument, and useless when it works against his point. The Legion in New Vegas is bad, but the Institude makes plenty of sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  16. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    While Someguy has some good points I do see that happening a lot. He picks and chooses where his evidence applies far too much.
     
  17. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Is that all? I wouldn't call that as fleshed out as teh Master's Army

    And that's not necessarly representative of Vault 87 Mutants
     
  18. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Of course it's not fleshed out. It barely even describes them.
     
  19. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign ⛧卐⛧ Staff Member Moderator [REDACTED]

    Apr 1, 2005
    Someguy is perfectly content with the same voice actor portraying Hulk-like Super Mutants forever because the lore that Bethesda has no respect for said it is okay.
     
  20. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    From smart, sophisticated and strong to idiots like strong. Sigh.