What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by FlashBash64, May 13, 2016.

  1. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016
    Nowadays Bethesda only seems to add funny poses for the sake of funny poses. Thoughtful environmental storytelling is good, even if it is stale (crippled kid), but funny poses for the sake of funny is awful. They even added a Titanic reference in Far Harbour (saw it on Reddit before it was taken down).

    At least Obsidian was subtle enough to add poses you didn't even know were references. Comes to mind one skeleton in a bathtub in Bison Steve. Can't seem to find a link now, but IIRC it was a reference to a painting.
     
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  2. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    I really get into "arguments" with bethesda apologists. It usually starts with me refuting one of their absolutely deplorable praises of bethesda with facts and then them unleashing a torrent of poorly worded insults and absurd mental gymnastics in a feeble attempt to defend their beloved company. And the bastard I am I can't help but bait them for a few laughs.
     
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  3. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    well I'm all for having fun but, I'm not sure it's okay to laugh at the mentally ill
     
  4. Vergil

    Vergil Banned

    Jul 8, 2014
    Morality and ethics are for untermensch.
     
  5. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    1376629114991332.png
    Is this accurate?
     
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  6. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016
    I like it when they spit out the classic "well, that's YOUR opinion". While it is no measure of being right or wrong, seeing the arguments from one side and seeing the "arguments" from the other side, you can't help but think we are right and they are awfully wrong.
     
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  7. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    I don't know if it counts as an apologist's argument, but I just remembered something along the lines like:

    "I remembered how, before Fallout 4 came out, people pretty much shit on New Vegas. Now that Fallout 4 came out, suddenly New Vegas is the better game."

    Umm, I'm sorry, what kind of people are you referring to, here, hmm?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    What is funny, is how often people that don't do art or design, talk about how, art and design is opinion. Yeah. I guess that's why it requires years of practise, one way or another, to be a trully outsanding artist and/or designer. Because it is all opinion. And you don't have to learn anything about anatomy, colour, composition, lighting and all that technical stuff that makes the difference between a drawing that looks like from a 5 year old and a real masterpiece.
    When you gauge something, then you can look at it from the technical side, or you can completely judge it on style, and what you personally prefer. For example, I am not a fan of impressionism, with the exception of Van Gogh - seriously, the guy was a genious. And I really don't like much of Picassos work. But I have a huge respect from the technical side and the knowledge some of those great painters like Monet and Picasso have shown in their work. I can easily see, why he is a master. You can see that they have years of knowledge and experimenting behind their work. What I really love, is Surrealism, not Dali though, but the works of Giger and Ched Zar. They are true masters of their craft. And yes, you can, objectively, measure quality here. What style you prefer though, that is of course opinion. And Surralism is not superior to Impressionism or Cubism or what ever.
    Sadly people often mix those up, and think, that a game like Fallout 4 makes the same kind of RPG like Fallout 1 or Planescape Torment, just because it has the name Fallout.
     
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  9. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Again, this is just my opinion, if you're going disagree, not care, or just write more paragraphs about how Fallout New Vegas isn't overrated when it is, fine, whatever, but that's just how I feel and that's how it'll stay, no matter how much you regurgitate the same shit over.
    Implying your arguments ain't something that's been regurgitated over and over again.

    Edit: You know what? Fuck it, I've never see anyone so hard-headed like this before. Here's full transcript of my 'encounter' with a guy who keep insisting on saying that New Vegas is overrated and he won't have it another way.

    Apologist: "I'm a huge Fallout fan, as in I like all the Fallouts or just the Fallout universe in general, and seem to be like one of very few people. Like I get why people hate 4 and 3 and what Bethesda is doing with the franchise and though I see why New Vegas is superior, I still like 3 more despite what people hate about it. It maybe because 3 was my first entry into the franchise but I still love what the franchise is all about, I have over 450+ hours on New Vegas and get why it's better than 3, yet I don't give a shite, I still like 3 way more. Tbh I actually hate New Vegas now just because of the community, it's just so overrated in my opinion, and the community is literally crying and begging for Bethesda to sell the license to Obsidian or someone else on literally any Fallout 4 related video, forum, discussion, or any other social media site. That may sound like exaggeration but I'm pretty sure there's gonna be tons of comments like that on this video's comment section, and yes, like I said earlier, I understand why people call New Vegas the definitive modern Fallout game, but in my opinion, I find it overrated and people should calm the frick down.

    So to summarize my opinion, you know the thing you don't have to agree with of which I'm open to on criticism, your own opinion, threats for having an opinion etc. I like all the Fallouts for what they are and understand why 3 and 4 may be disappointing and why some like others more. I hate the community that won't shut the hell up about why New Vegas is the best even though I get it, and those who comment how disappointing it is and are at their knees for Bethesda to sell the IP. Regardless of what I think, everyone has their own opinions, so whatever :P"

    Me: "Funny you didn't bring Fallout 1 and 2 into this comment of yours. If you think Fallout: New Vegas is overrated, then I think you wouldn't want to hear anything about Fallout 1 and 2."

    Apologist: "I didn't bring up FO1 & 2 because we all know those games are amazing, not gonna repeat everything about how amazing they are because I wanted to focus on the modern Fallout games"

    Me: ""Tbh I actually hate New Vegas now just because of the community, it's just so overrated in my opinion"
    But by saying that, you also kind of denied the amazingness of Fallout 1 and 2. Finding NV overrated doesn't do justice to why it's genuinely amazing, because it's the closest thing to Fallout 1 and 2 that the community who's been following Fallout 1 since 1997 can get. New Vegas is one of those theoretical situation when games like Half-Life 3 gets released; they waited for more than 10 years to finally get a sequel/successor worthy in the face of the games they've played in '97/'98. Heck, Fallout community back then probably hurt more due to the fact they had to face disappointment when finding out Van Buren that's ~80% done gets cancelled, while piece of shit that I won't say the name gets released, and then subsequently Bethesda released their 'Fallout' game that not only make them raise their eyebrows, but also give the wrong idea of what a Fallout game is to newer audience.

    Not only that, New Vegas also wasn't overrated because, like I said, it's a closest thing to what Fallout 1/2 was and older fans like folks at NMA fully aware of the situation and consciously put NV right below 1&2, especially since NV was boggled down by Bethesda's shitty engine and stupid design decision that surrounded the creation of Fallout 3.

    Still, I get what you were saying. There IS lots of people who chanted how amazing New Vegas was, but you need to understand that they were doing it most likely because they were disappointed from playing Fallout 4, and they are probably people who've played Fallout 3 as their first Fallout game and the liked it, and then they get to New Vegas and loved it. Honestly, Obsidian showed Bethesda how to do a Fallout game, yet it seemed like Bethesda doesn't learn a thing at all. Instead, we see an attempt at trying to attract a different kind of audience, especially after this year's E3, and in the process of doing so butchered everything what Fallout once stood for and there begin a saying like this, "Fallout is now a parody of itself." "

    Apologist: "I've read comments like yours and I'll be honest, I kind of just skimmed it because this is like the 50th time I've read this shit, sorry but I don't need to read the same thing again. Going back to my point, I am just annoyed by how perfect everyone says New Vegas is, call me butthurt, Bethesda fanboy, what the fuck ever, I'm just giving my opinion just like everyone else in this chat, even if it is just Bethesda bashing and Obsidian begging. I just find New Vegas overrated is all because people seem to gloss over it's problems because Obsidian, these are just mine.

    -Uses a lot of Fallout 3 assets, mostly the same game (no one cares that it's literally just an expansion, I feel it is anyway)
    -Bland as shit enviroments (Setting was cool but got boring as hell after a few hours)
    -Bugs and glitches (3 had very miniscule for me but that was just my experience)
    -Gets all these passes because Obsidian
    (FYI I'm not giving a Bethesda a pass it's just I have less problems with their games than most people do surprisingly)

    Look, I get why Fallout New Vegas is better, you don't need to write 3 paragraphs on why it is like everyone else, but this community just acts so fucking childish I find it hard to like it. In no way am I saying Fallout 3 or 4 and better Fallout wise, like who says that, but everyone just white knights New Vegas like it's a perfect game when it has some problems here and there. Like people say that 3 exist only for New Vegas existed and shit like that, and I fear if Obsidian makes another Fallout which would be awesome but too fucking soon, no one will care that we'll be getting a Fallout 3/New Vegas situation. People keep wanting Obsidian to take FO4's assets to make another Fallout, literally, and will not seem to care if we'll get (maybe) another buggy, bland, same as 4 mess and will just gloss over all it's problems because OBSIDIAN. Again, this is just my opinion, if you're going disagree, not care, or just write more paragraphs about how Fallout New Vegas isn't overrated when it is, fine, whatever, but that's just how I feel and that's how it'll stay, no matter how much you regurgitate the same shit over."

    Me: "By your logic, even Fallout 4 is overrated. Sure, go close your eyes and ears and mind. If you are at least open-minded and is willing to see another perspective, continue reading down below and take it slowly.

    Now I am going to address your bullet point one-by-one, so bear with me and don't just skim through because honestly, your arguments are just the same and I've seen it again and again.

    "-Uses a lot of Fallout 3 assets, mostly the same game (no one cares that it's literally just an expansion, I feel it is anyway)"
    By this logic, Bethesda uses a lot of Oblivion assets. You do know why many people called Fallout 3 'Oblivion with Guns', right?
    To be fair, Obsidian never worked on Gamebryo engine before, so they need to learn from scratch how to work on it, and that's obviously much harder than Bethesda who've had +15 years of experience with the engine at the time.

    "-Bland as shit enviroments (Setting was cool but got boring as hell after a few hours)"
    Honestly, what do you expected from a desert setting? Rainbow and unicorn? This argument is irrelevant as hell, considering it's mostly similar with environments in Fallout 1 and 2.

    "-Bugs and glitches (3 had very miniscule for me but that was just my experience)"
    Where do you play? Consoles? Because my experience is that in PC version, FO3 is STILL buggy as hell in 2015, even with mods. NV was much more stable on PC. Bugs and glitches are a 'feature' of Bethesda's engine, right? Especially considering Obsidian had to learn working with the engine from zero.

    "-Gets all these passes because Obsidian
    (FYI I'm not giving a Bethesda a pass it's just I have less problems with their games than most people do surprisingly)"
    Actually, no. Now read again my comment before this, I explained why. But for FPS mechanic and engine usage? Obsidian are still criticized. It's not as 'praised' as you think it was, because New Vegas tried to borrow most of what was meant for Van Buren, but because of the shitty engine they can only include as much."

    Apologist: "+Nigrum Angelum I don't consider 4 all that overrated because people actually address it's flaws, you just keep defending New Vegas and disregarding my other statements so fuck off. And like I said, if these problems were apparent in any Fallout games by Obsidian in the future (which probably isn't gonna happen due to the community's hostility and childish behavior towards Bethesda). So New Vegas is still fucking overrated in my opinion no matter how you defend it, but if you feel it isn't l, that's good for you. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, if you got anymore comments about New Vegas or Obsidian just say it, feel free to keep defending it, I really could care less at this point :P"

    It's like trying to argue with a guy who you have proven wrong, but he doesn't want to stop yet he doesn't want you to continue the argument either. Man, my faith in humanity is exhausted today....
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  10. SpecialHands

    SpecialHands First time out of the vault

    86
    Jun 16, 2016
    One of my friends kept telling me that the Fallout 3 brotherhood were great and that he didn't understand why they weren't super friendly in New Vegas and Fallout 4. Wasn;t so much an argument as an end of a friendship.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    When someone is debating with you and say they didn't even read most of what you said, then it is a lost case.
    If one does not even hear or read all the words of those who he/she is debating with and even has the nerve to say he/she didn't... There is nothing more to say to that person. :naughty:
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  12. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016
    Some people like Fallout 3. That's "fine". There was a time when I liked Fallout 3 better than New Vegas, despite acknowledging every advantage NV had over FO3. It's the discussion that boils down, in the end, to "atmosphere".

    I was one of them. These people don't care about Fallout. All they care is the "post-apocalyptic" feel to it that ruined buildings, broken roads and clutter everywhere give to them. Fog, god rays, and the like. That's "atmosphere" for the Fallout 3 & 4 fans.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if New Vegas was crowded with trees, ruins, cars, Super Mutants and Raiders, AND LIAM NEESON!!1!1!, people would never mention Fallout 3 ever again.

    Matthew Perry is better than Liam Neeson, dig?
     
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  13. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016
    Got to double post because this made me rage hard. OP on Reddit asks what's everyone's head canon. One hero replies:

    "Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, and New Vegas are all that exist in my head canon."

    Cue user replying "I love the smell of pointless elitism in the morning."

    You can see the rest in this thread, just search for "Sigourn": https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/4oaysi/whats_in_your_fallout_head_cannon/

    It triggers me that some people are complete dumbfucks that can't see things how they truly are, or worse, bash someone just because he gives an honest opinion.
     
  14. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    Usually people will tell me that "Fallout 3 is a great game" and a "great improvement" on the "outdated" originals. I haven't seen anything beyond that because their only argument is, "yeah well, I found it fun, so there." There's just no discussion with such people.
     
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  15. Crossfire

    Crossfire Banned

    491
    Jun 14, 2016
    ...aaand you've lost me. Sorry, I've never bought that line of reasoning.

    Besides, if they're allowed to express their view that Fallout 4 is a good game, why can't people in turn express the view that they're retarded? Furthermore, why aren't we allowed to "belittle" their shittier arguments but you're allowed to belittle this whole thread? Am I missing something?
     
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  16. mikek17

    mikek17 First time out of the vault

    66
    Jun 22, 2016
    Someone on /v/ said that "Fallout has always been about the shooting" and therefore because Fallout 4 does it best (which I disagree with) it was the best game. I responded with a picture of Tim Cain and the famous "plasma gun" quote.
     
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  17. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016
    If Fallout had always been about the shooting, I would have dropped Fallout and gone back to Call of Duty. At least I had fun shooting people in multiplayer. Hell, I even had fun dying.
     
  18. mikek17

    mikek17 First time out of the vault

    66
    Jun 22, 2016
    The latest defender attempts to defend Fallout 4.
    A picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll let him do the talking.
    fanboyout4.png
     
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  19. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
     
  20. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    220
    Jan 16, 2016


    This is the kind of image that proves that to these people, Fallout is about exploring and shooting crap. Oh, and let's compare the technical prowess of this 2015 game to a game that was using the same engine as another in 2008. Because that's fair.