What was the Funniest Argument You've had with a Bethesda Apologist?
- Thread starter FlashBash64
- Start date
First time out of the vault
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TorontoReign
Guest
Fallout 6 is about Aliens from Mars invading Earth with a climactic battle on the long awaited Enclave Moon Base.
Keeping it simple isn't necessarily a bad stance to take. That being said, I really REALLY am tired of looking for family members. How about a *single-player* Fallout game where you exit the Vault into a brave new world where you can decide what you want to do with your life -- become a raider, try to form a settlement, join the goody-two-shoes ultimately fighting raiders and protecting said settlements, become a caravan guard, RUN a caravan, join the NCR, join Caesar's Legion, join the BOS (in a way similar to Fallout 1), or basically do what Mad Max does and do none of the above but be a simple wanderer just surviving day to day on the go. And all without the burden of a main quest to muddy the waters. Living in post apocalyptia -- THAT is your "main quest."
Sorry for the off-topic rant. Um. I dunno, I haven't had many arguments with Bethesda apologists. But I do find the folks who prefer Fallout 3 to New Vegas pretty damn funny.
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TorontoReign
Guest
No, that is a stupid Bethesda NuFallout LARPfest.
And how the hell did you come to THAT conclusion, bub?
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TorontoReign
Guest
Because what you just described is the open ended walking simulator that Fallout 3 mods popularized.
I don't see how. You get far more choice with what I proposed than you do with Fallout 3, which is what I thought we were supposed to promote here.
Story, no one's got time for that! We'll just use our ...
IMAGINATION!
Imagination's a wonderful thing but I value not having to be online 24/7 in order to not miss something. That's why I quit MMOs.
You have to listen to Todd! It's not an MMO! Not at all! You can play with your self if you want to! It's like starting an online-shooter with no one in it.
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Pwener
FEV is the equivalent of a chest x-ray.
They don't need to add NPCs either because modders with mediocre voice acting can do that. It'll be a great game.
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TorontoReign
Guest
Choice to the detriment of the main quest and storyline? No. Fallout is a RPG not a sandbox loot simulation with unlimited options...
UnlimitedSprint
First time out of the vault
Someone tried to convince me that Mothership Zeta's alien focus was okay because aliens were "already canon".
While that's true to an extent, they were certainly never shown to have anywhere near as mcuh of a presence as they did in MZ. And they sure as hell never had anything to do with The War starting.
While that's true to an extent, they were certainly never shown to have anywhere near as mcuh of a presence as they did in MZ. And they sure as hell never had anything to do with The War starting.
Aliens were never canon, though.
They were easter-eggs, and the devs of the classic games always said that easter-eggs were not canon. They even made the Fallout Bible to address what was canon and wasn't in Fallout 1 and 2. Also we never saw real aliens, only some deformed skeletons that could be humans with a mutation for all we know. While people will obviously say it was alien skeletons, the game doesn't say it. Which is different from MZ real aliens.
But you try and tell that to people defending MZ aliens
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They were easter-eggs, and the devs of the classic games always said that easter-eggs were not canon. They even made the Fallout Bible to address what was canon and wasn't in Fallout 1 and 2. Also we never saw real aliens, only some deformed skeletons that could be humans with a mutation for all we know. While people will obviously say it was alien skeletons, the game doesn't say it. Which is different from MZ real aliens.
But you try and tell that to people defending MZ aliens
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CaptJ
The Rival of Roquefort Hall
I honestly don't care whether aliens were canon or not but they should never be tangentially related to anything important in the series. Just make them some jackasses that got lost in space.
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
I don't think he was a Bethesda apologist but he was rather adamant that the start of New Vegas was linear compared to the start of Fallout 3.
I mentioned that besides the paths through deathclaws and cazadores (which he said showed the devs clearly didn't want you going there) there was also the black mountain path. He denied the existance of it until later where he said the developers never intended you to take that path because you would have the jump off the side of the cliff. So despite the fact that it makes New Vegas' start objectively nonlinear, it doesn't count because the developers *obviously* didn't intend you to take it.
Also this came up in a discussion comparing fo3 and NV's map size.
Here's the key he used
Red: Inaccessible areas
Blue: Blocked off by enemies to low level players
Light Blue: pointless to explore
Yellow: Pointless once you finish a quest there
What do you guys think?
I mentioned that besides the paths through deathclaws and cazadores (which he said showed the devs clearly didn't want you going there) there was also the black mountain path. He denied the existance of it until later where he said the developers never intended you to take that path because you would have the jump off the side of the cliff. So despite the fact that it makes New Vegas' start objectively nonlinear, it doesn't count because the developers *obviously* didn't intend you to take it.
Also this came up in a discussion comparing fo3 and NV's map size.
Here's the key he used
Red: Inaccessible areas
Blue: Blocked off by enemies to low level players
Light Blue: pointless to explore
Yellow: Pointless once you finish a quest there
What do you guys think?
And Fallout 3 is not that different even if the player can wander around more. Eventually the player will come across places where their character's skill level is to low and equipment to insufficient to survive if they just left the Vault.
There really are only a handful of locations that matter campaign wise in Fallout 3. You need to go to Megaton - the radio station - The mall (if you fail the speech check) - Rivet City - the holo Vault (hmm may need to visit Vault Tec first for its location) - Project Purity - Pentagon - Vault 87 - Raven Rock - Pentagon - Project Purity.
Only a handful of optional locations have people and quests, there is just there and if you do not go out of the way to explore you never come across them like the place with cannibal family, Arefu, Girdershade, Republic of something, slaver place, town were traders are suppose to come from, that tower hotel.
The raider town isn't even a settlement because as soon as you find it you have to kill all the raiders and everyone else.
Unless you find the Ghoul who wants all the keys for Power Armor at the bomb storage base there is not even any reasons to even go there or to the place where Harold was turned into a tree (Bethesda should never have been allowed to handle Harold this way. He should have appeared in FNV instead)
I do not know who made that map but there are plenty of locations in Fallout 3 and 4 for that matter that are no longer worth visiting once you have done all the quests or is no point to explore in the first place unless you are determined to pick up every loose things.
Most of the Fallout 3 and 4 maps remain unexplored if you have no interest in seeing what is there.
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
Yeah the whole pointless to explore after you've been there once was kinda silly when it's in comparison to 3. As far as I know 2 is the only one that constantly has you revisit most locations though I could be wrong.
D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
Besides the Black Mountain path being unintentional, if rather comparatively shallow and feeling less of an actual roadblock than the path to the north of Goodsprings, the rest is pretty much objectively true, it doesn't have to be good or bad, and I assume he wasn't making this assertion either. The NV worldmap is hardly one of it's best traits and Fo3's world, even with arguably more nonsensical logic oftentimes, is a lot more dense and interesting to explore overall, even without (mostly) the incentive of properly unique unique weapons and whatnot. More likely than not, there's either a quest or an unmarked one for most locations, while in NV *perhaps* you'll get to need to come back there eventually for some other quest. The idea of not fast traveling to make the world feel alive is wholly pointless in NV because there's almost no random encounters, beyond the NCR/legion hitsquads and the three events related to the Star Caps. Non respawning enemies and areas rarely changing before the ending slides doesn't really help either.
You could say that about NV's main quest too, though. Which also isn't really its strongest aspect. Beyond the odd alternate method and of course, the faction choice, you're pretty much set straight. And you will visit roughly the same handful of areas with them, wether it's most minor factions with House/Independent or the same places in parallel with Legion/NCR.
Um. So they AREN'T linear then, which is what the dude was arguing. Would Harold have been much better if he actually was mandatory?
Pretty good video on this all:
LuciusCorneliusSulla
First time out of the vault
Arnust you can not actually prove the black moutain path was unintentional. Nor can you prove it was intentional. But it being there makes New Vegas' start objectively nonlinear.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
New Vegas is the game of the series that litterally have the least linear start.
Fobos and FoT forces you into the first mission, then remain mostly linear for the rest of the game.
Fo2, Fo3 and Fo4 forces you into a moderatly lenghty prologue, into a vault or a Temple of Trials, then Fo3 features no choices in the main quests.
Fo1 start is more open that the examples above, but you still have that clock ticking that force you into at least one decision.
FoNV, you get cleared by the local doctor and you are free to go anywhere without even having to watch the clock.
Fobos and FoT forces you into the first mission, then remain mostly linear for the rest of the game.
Fo2, Fo3 and Fo4 forces you into a moderatly lenghty prologue, into a vault or a Temple of Trials, then Fo3 features no choices in the main quests.
Fo1 start is more open that the examples above, but you still have that clock ticking that force you into at least one decision.
FoNV, you get cleared by the local doctor and you are free to go anywhere without even having to watch the clock.