Why do people think New Vegas was actually good?

[CerberusGate]

The fuck is the point of choosing a side to aid in the battle for the damn, when you being on that side is all it takes to win?

Aw... so in this case, Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and 4 are objectively terribly written games seeing as all it took for a side in those games to win was having the player character on their side. It's almost as though having a flexible one man army on your side changes the course of any battle.

In 1, the BoS and town leaders got nowhere with dealing with the mutant threat until the Vault Dweller showed up. In 2, the cold war in the region over which faction would take over the West got nowhere until the Chosen One showed up. In 3, everyone sat around doing nothing and not succeeding until the Lone Wanderer popped up. In 4, everyone farted about until the Sole Survivor showed up.

Every game is like this in some way so why single out NV. Blame em all then. Unless that's too difficult to do?

Yall are telling me Caesar thinks your import and highly capable which is why he wants to work with you, but at the same time he is doesn't see you as any bit of a threat to monitor your work for him, something he was doing before he tries to order you to do something, and if you defy the man in his own base does the game punish you? Does the reputation system effect how the leader of this faction deals with you positively or negatively? Nah, it just clears your bad reputation.

Erm, are you making this up? You defy him in his base, you are stuck with no chip unless you kill him. You can remove the negative rep by accepting Lucius's offer at the Strip but it comes back quickly especially if you kill Caesar for the chip and work against the Legion. Also, arrogance and hubris are real character flaws that affect judgement like Caesar's. He thinks he's safe and thinks he has all the bases covered which in-universe characters disagree (especially Arcade who chews out Sallow/Caesar's thought processes after your first conversation with Sallow).

The mans running a small nation in the wasteland and setup as their leader. Sounds like in character, he has more success then failure in his life, typically the mark of making bad choices.
I guess its just in character for him to be written badly, and display the naivety of a child

Way to ignore hubris, arrogance and the brain tumor. Being surrounded by yes men and having the abovementioned issues will definitely impair judgement especially over the course of time but "muh bad-wirtten cahrcter", am I right?

Plus, he had success due to Joshua Graham being his ruthless military commander and compared to the tribals they went up against, he's a genius.

EDIT:

. Why should we pay attention to the fact that House hired plenty of people to look for the platinum chip beforehand, but I guess just never hired anyone he could rely on in the mojave, so he needs to put his future in the hands of a half dead mailman in a coma.

Yes, he did spend caps to find the chip and unless you forgot, he did hire more than one courier to deliver the chip. More specifically, he hired several other couriers to act as decoys while the player character was the (un)lucky one who got the actual chip. The plan may have succeeded if not for Yes Man identifying the player character as the chip's actual bearer.

Unless you missed that somehow? You couldn't have since all this is on the wiki. Plus, the reason why House hires the Courier as his agent has been stated before

Next yall will tell me its all a dream of the player in a coma and thats why none of it has to make any sense lol.

No, that's Mothership Zeta and that's the only explanation for that trainwreck.

 

[TorontoReign]

Now I get it. BigBoi is too young to know how people act.

 

[Lidku]

I bring up one of the most important characters in the main story, apply minimal critical thinking skills, and point out that the structure of the story is weak and calling me a retard.

Exactly, now your finally understanding your own inane logic. You apply minimal (I wouldn't even say minimal, almost near non-existent is more apt) analyses to point out supposed "story flaws" based on your own anecdotal nitpicks in concert with how the plot-line advances and basic game fiat. You gain the moniker retard because you fit and do the role as one perfectly, hence why you receive it.

The fuck is the point of choosing a side to aid in the battle for the damn, when you being on that side is all it takes to win? There is literally 0 chance of failure, and you are not punished for anything lol.

Your kidding me right? ...Now you have to be a troll.. Its literally supposed to be part of the fucking game where as the PC you help decide who succeeds based on who you choose. Its of the primary appeals of NV, a no-name wasteland Courier coming out of nowhere to decide the fate of the Mojave. The PC being a deciding factor is literally part of any gaming media. Why would they not put in a chance to just not complete the game at all or from a random draw after all the work put into making sure your faction doesn't succeed?

Also even with an "in-universe" viewpoint as you later on vomit out, there is no chance for failure because no matter what- there is going to be a conflict for the Dam, its a constant. In a sense there is no failure at all like I said before because one faction WILL fight for and gain the Dam. The Courier just comes along to break the status quo after being caught up in the underlying machinations from the ongoing conflict in the piece that is established. Through that fiat the game begins to take root after the setup is brokered.

You can't understand any of this because your a tween who is used to shitposting on /v/ (where you mostlikely came from since I just honestly believe your an alt of @chunglord420 with your shit opinions and flimsy no foundation arguments). You talk about analysis, but you have none whatsoever as determined by your talking points. I'm surprised you even know what that word means tbh.

You guys are right, Caesar is just a minor character in the game and story. Who the fuck needs sensible motives?

What are you even talking about? Caesar LITERALLY explains his motives in the most detailed fashion with his ideology and convictions put in staunchly to justify his own actions 1*. He is the best antagonist to date in Fallout right after the Master. Even Lanius, Caesar's second-in-command when you confront him is exceptionally written and character developed to a point where you can play upon his flaws of never wanting to lose because of the reputation he built-up to enact a ceasefire.

*1 Caesar explaining himself, something Bethesda was incapable of writing for Shaun or the Institute as a whole:



To even quote the /top/ comment from this video:

Lol winning an argument is a dumb way to look at it. I'm being critical of the game, looking to make the strongest case I can on things.

How do you even hope to achieve even that. You don't possess any strong points to justify this statement in the first place. Also if you start a debate without any hopes to succeed in it, what do you wish to accomplish really? Because again- all your points to support your arguments against the main quest ARE being promptly incinerated. Tell me the truth, are you some kid from 4chan or Reddit?

 

[CerberusGate]

some kid from 4chan or Reddit?

Most trolls seem to come from Reddit. Their circlejerk is stupidly strong.

 

[Risewild]

I have been considering making two giant pictures using the wikia (like I did with the main quests and posted them in this thread before). One containing all named FO3 quests and another containing all FNV named quests. But while making the FO3 pic will probably take a couple of hours because it has 18 named quests, FNV one would probably take days, since it has something like 77 named quests...

So I won't do it unless there is any interest in having those pictures... So I ask here, anyone interested in something like that?

 

[Lidku]

Actually people already have thought of that already:

 

[TorontoReign]

BigBoi will say that we should not compare it to Fallout 3.

 

[Risewild]

Actually people already have thought of that already

I meant something with all the branches of the quests.

 

[TorontoReign]

The branches will be intimidating.

 

[Lidku]

Ah, thats what you mean. That'd be impossible to do- I can't fathom who would labor to do all that work or even figure out a way to put them all in one picture. Besides why bother? Its a practically accepted consensus even among Beth fanboys that NV has better writing than 3 by every metric. When debates come abound for which game is better they only ever argue for "environment" for Fallout 3.. besides that they have no adequate defense for it.

 

[CerberusGate]

only ever argue for "environment" for Fallout 3

Even 3's environment has points against it for being a barren radioactive wasteland after 200 years. Even if you launch that many dirty bombs, the region would not be a scorched barren landscape. It would be more like Chernobyl if anything.

 

[TorontoReign]

Yeah I wouldn't waste my time. Go make TTW better or shitpost in The Order instead.

 

[Risewild]

It would be easy for FO3, I'm doing that one to see how long it would take and it's going well so far.

The problem is FNV, it has almost 5 times the amount of named quests, and while cutting and pasting part of screenshots from the wikia takes time, but it's pretty easy, arranging those parts and having to frame them each individually so that it's not an unreadable mess is what takes the longest.

 

[Lidku]

It would be easy for FO3, I'm doing that one to see how long it would take and it's going well so far.

The problem is FNV, it has almost 5 times the amount of named quests, and while cutting and pasting part of screenshots from the wikia takes time, but it's pretty easy, it's the arranging of those parts and having to frame them each individually so that it's not an unreadable mess is what takes the longest.

PHEW! God bless ya, I personally wouldn't be able to scope NV like that at all!

 

[TorontoReign]

Risewild has torn both games apart so his brain can comprehend it easier.

 

[Risewild]

Ok, I made the Fallout 3 named quests (without the main quests, those are already made in my previous pics I posted). All of them have branches.

Just to note that FNV has around 20 named quests that offer no branches .

 

[Hassknecht]

The fuck is the point of choosing a side to aid in the battle for the damn, when you being on that side is all it takes to win? There is literally 0 chance of failure, and you are not punished for anything lol.

Now that's a galaxy-brained take if I ever saw one. "I want 'choice & consequence' as in, I want the game to punish me for not choosing the correct faction".
Do you want a game where the outcome of the endgame is either fixed or randomized so that you'll get punished for your in-game choices?
Is THAT "choice and consequence" for you? Choosing a faction to support, spending hours and questlines helping them to make sure they come out on top, just for the game to finally tell you "Nah, the other guys win"? I mean... Technically it's a choice, and a consequence. From a game design point of view, it removes player agency and makes the game pointless to begin with. You can't influence the outcome of the game, the player's involvement is simply not there. Why even play the game as the Courier trying to do anything? Might as well RP as a farmer, watching the NCR/House/Legion conflict from afar.
Or better yet, might as well play Fallout 3, where the storyline always plays out the same.

 

[CerberusGate]

Do you want a game where the outcome of the endgame is either fixed or randomized so that you'll get punished for your in-game choices?

That sounds terrible especially if the game is famous for having choices that matter. Kinda like vanilla ME3 before the Extended Cut (if you didn't play the multiplayer, you would not have the EMS for the Synthesis ending and would be locked to Destroy or Assimilate).

 

[Hassknecht]

That sounds terrible especially if the game is famous for having choices that matter. Kinda like vanilla ME3 before the Extended Cut (if you didn't play the multiplayer, you would not have the EMS for the Synthesis ending and would be locked to Destroy or Assimilate).

I mean, I can see where he's coming from, and it might be an interesting subversion of how video games usually play out.
You chose a faction and play through the entire game, but in the end you lose anyway. However, it'd be interesting only once or until one has found the faction that wins, or the game would require a randomized element that determines the outcome of the game. Either way, it'd be a subversion of the video game format, but ultimately not very enjoyable as a video game. Just because you CAN subvert expectations (like, "my player character's choices have meaning") doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[CerberusGate]

I mean, I can see where he's coming from, and it might be an interesting subversion of how video games usually play out.
You chose a faction and play through the entire game, but in the end you lose anyway. However, it'd be interesting only once or until one has found the faction that wins, or the game would require a randomized element that determines the outcome of the game. Either way, it'd be a subversion of the video game format, but ultimately not very enjoyable as a video game. Just because you CAN subvert expectations (like, "my player character's choices have meaning") doesn't mean you SHOULD.

It sounds like an experimental game that plays around stereotypes and goes meta. Could be interesting once but as you said, I think it would get stale after the first run. It kinda reminds me of Doki Doki Literature Club, once the meta-twist has been revealed, you can't really go back except to unlock additional scenes.

Subversion for subversion's sake rarely pays off.