World Cup

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

We'd tell you but than we'd have to kill you.







Intelligent Pigeons. Think about it, they're everywhere!

 

[Sander]

Except for the injuries, this time i think Holland is doing fine, they finally understood the importance of the game on the sides, and that great strickers need a very carefully balance midfield. I mean the 3/3/4 and 3/4/3 tactics work well with weaker teams, but with good defenses they could be suicidal without fast players playing on the sides and a midfield that does more than trying to recover balls behind. I think you've learned your lesson now.

Interestingly we had more problems with the weaker teams than with the stronger ones. Especially during the qualifiers.


And what the hell, John? They need this? The team bloody well sucks, and Germany has a tendency to win with sub-par teams, which is annoying.

 

[Briosafreak]

Well i still believe the only team that could play very well at 3/4/3 is Brazil, and that Holland could had a few ups and downs regarding scoring, but overall they turn much more constant exibitions with the 3/4/3 that changes to 5/2/3 in a minute.

When they forget to make the quick movements in the midfield and the lateral defenders become full time wings, namely with a few weaker teams, then things might be harder. I don't think they will loose concentration so easilly now though, although all the injuries might bring some trouble.



And regarding the World Cup, well, if you can feel the magic than it's a wonderfull experience, if you don't there are others things to do.

We're talking about a visceral experience, about drama, like the referee saying he had finished the Brazil/Sweden in 78 1 second before a goal was in, or how Shumacher almost killed Batiston in the pitch and continued as nothing had happened, how the Hungarians in the 50's would play to give some hope to their countrymen, and to escape the regime, how Cruyft played against Argentina to try to give a defeat to the Dictators, while the Argentinians were playing to try to put a smile on Argentinian faces again, how Portugal was loosing 3-0 at twenty minutes against North Corea in 66, and won 3-5 in the end, how Burruchaga would play with an ETA t-shirt under the Spanish national team shirt, how Roger Milla scored at over 40 years old, how Maradona humiliated the English just after the Malvinas/Falklands war with the "Hand of god" and one of the most incredible goals ever, that i still get moved and aplaud when i see it today, how it means the world just beeing there for countries like Angola or Trinidad, how wars stoped so people could watch the games, the effects on the productivity in Asia, Europe and South America that gets governments worried in the world, the penalties, the screams, the crying, the joy....


It's magnificent, and i'm not going to racionalise it, some things just strike the emotional chord.

Again, it's a magnificent spectacle, and i'm glad i'm touched by it's magic.

 

[Brother None]

Don't forget the Dutch made the Soviet regime collapse by winning the EC '88 against the SU

(that is seriously going to be my master-thesis)

 

[alec]

We're talking about a visceral experience, about drama, like the referee saying he had finished the Brazil/Sweden in 78 1 second before a goal was in, or how Shumacher almost killed Batiston in the pitch and continued as nothing had happened, how the Hungarians in the 50's would play to give some hope to their countrymen, and to escape the regime, how Cruyft played against Argentina to try to give a defeat to the Dictators, while the Argentinians were playing to try to put a smile on Argentinian faces again, how Portugal was loosing 3-0 at twenty minutes against North Corea in 66, and won 3-5 in the end, how Burruchaga would play with an ETA t-shirt under the Spanish national team shirt, how Roger Milla scored at over 40 years old, how Maradona humiliated the English just after the Malvinas/Falklands war with the "Hand of god" and one of the most incredible goals ever, that i still get moved and aplaud when i see it today, how it means the world just beeing there for countries like Angola or Trinidad, how wars stoped so people could watch the games, the effects on the productivity in Asia, Europe and South America that gets governments worried in the world, the penalties, the screams, the crying, the joy....

You forgot to mention the beer. The beer, Briosafreak. How on earth can someone forget to mention the beer?

Jeez.

 

[SuAside]

There's actually next to not money involved as far as the players are concerned during the WC and EC, which is exactly what sets it apart from team football.

euhm, yes... i wasnt talking about the players in this case. although they still get paid enough. participation fee (per team) 3.900.000 euros. then each bracket has extra pay. ending with the losing finalist getting 14.600.000 euros & the winner gets 15.600.000 euros. it totals to 300.000.000 for all participants.

so yeah, the poor schmucks are there playing for nothing at all, wasting their poor free time for our entertainment. how nice & patriotic of them. the poor winner only gets like 1 mil euros a head + endless sponsoring deals & publicity up the ass. i pity them. no, really, i do...

but what i was talking about is this:

FIFA revenue this year: 2.800.000.000 euros. read it again. yeah, thats a lot of digits aint it.

this is from stuff like: 1.200.000.000 euros from broadcasting rights, 500.000.000 euros from sponsors, 170.000.000 from hospitality deals,...

FIFA expenses: 170.000.000 goes to germany, 300.000.000 euros in team fees (yes Kharn, players dont get paid *cough* uhu, sure buddy), 35.000 euro's per judge (dont remember the name) & so on and so forth.

estimated general profit for the FIFA: 110.000.000 after deduction of already questionable personal expenses of the head honchos & after deducting gifts to humanitarian causes (it's tax deductible you see).

however

expenses by germany: 4.150.000.000 euros for the new stadium, remodeling old stadiums and making more roads to facilitate traffic from & to the stadiums. an additional 802.000.000 euros for public transportation. this does not include costs that will surface during the WC, such as law enforcement, damages & so on. they're estimating that germany will have to cough up 10.000.000.000 euros total in the end. yes thats ten zeros. an eleven digit number.

expenses by the local pro clubs: 600.000.000 euros

and the list goes on & on.

why yes kharn, there is no money involved at all, i'm sure. no decadence to be found around here, uhu.

Just give us this few weeks SuAside to enjoy a few games of soccer. This comes around every 4 years, so make the most of it!

dont worry, my good man. i'm not going to bomb the Allianz Arena or sabotage television stations. you can have your fun, just think it's odd, thats all.

 

[Brother None]

I never said there was no money involved.

I said player fees are next to nothing. Not really a correct statement, if your numbers are.

Source them.

Also; man, you're bitter. Did football kick you in the nuts when you were 5 or something?

 

[Jebus]

Don't forget the Dutch made the Soviet regime collapse by winning the EC '88 against the SU

(that is seriously going to be my master-thesis)

Perhaps, but the seeds were already sown by the Belgian victory against the SU in the Mexican WC of '86.

 

[Sander]

Well i still believe the only team that could play very well at 3/4/3 is Brazil, and that Holland could had a few ups and downs regarding scoring, but overall they turn much more constant exibitions with the 3/4/3 that changes to 5/2/3 in a minute.

When they forget to make the quick movements in the midfield and the lateral defenders become full time wings, namely with a few weaker teams, then things might be harder. I don't think they will loose concentration so easilly now though, although all the injuries might bring some trouble.

It's 4/3/3 (4 def, 3 mid, 3 att) by the way.
Most of the injuries have healed now, so that should pose little problems. But yes, the pace needs to be kept high for us to succeed, really. We're very strong at a high pace, but if the opponents play to defuse our game we could get into trouble.


Kharn, that has got to be the weirdest master thesis I've ever heard of.

SuAside: You're forgetting that it's also a huge boost to the economy of Germany and the economy of countries with teams that do better than expected.

EDIT: Kharn, player bonuses can be quite high. Several hundred thousand if they win the World Cup, usually bonuses for winning games as well. Most of the time there aren't any other payments than that, though.

 

[SuAside]

I never said there was no money involved.

i know, just dramatising

I said player fees are next to nothing. Not really a correct statement, if your numbers are.

Source them.

used in De Morgen & their source is FIFA itself. (for the FIFA numbers anyway. the German numbers i'm not sure.)

Also; man, you're bitter. Did football kick you in the nuts when you were 5 or something?

no, i played the belgian championship & won with Lokeren when i was a wee lil' man. (no not the grownup league... duh)

i dont have anything against football really...

no, really!

it's just all a lil' too much for my tastes.

SuAside: You're forgetting that it's also a huge boost to the economy of Germany and the economy of countries with teams that do better than expected.

did i say anything about the morality or the effect on germany?

no, i just said that i find the proportions kinda decadent, thats all

 

[Brother None]

used in De Morgen & their source is FIFA itself. (for the FIFA numbers anyway. the German numbers i'm not sure.)

You're actually expecting me to believe a *Belgian* newspaper?

Are you joking?

it's just all a lil' too much for my tastes.

I may not agree with exuberant wages for sportsmen, but they're not different than the heavy wages of actors or directors and I still enjoy movies. Hell, it's only one step below the ridiculous wages of top-level managers, and I don't hate their products either.

Blame capitalism or live with it.

PS: SuAside; "decadent" is a moral judgement.

 

[SuAside]

You're actually expecting me to believe a *Belgian* newspaper? Are you joking?

zomg! did you just insult my newspaper AND my nation?
<insert useless patriotic rant here>

really, De Morgen is fine. not perfect in any way, but totally respectable.

[quote="SusAn!"]

are you calling me a nancy-boy?

zomg, stop confusing me with your oTO buttmonkeyz!

B&!

I may not agree with exuberant wages for sportsmen, but they're not different than the heavy wages of actors or directors and I still enjoy movies. Hell, it's only one step below the ridiculous wages of top-level managers, and I don't hate their products either.

Blame capitalism or live with it.

i know, i know... and yes, i'm living with it.

i'm just puzzled by it all. seems so weird to me.

PS: SuAside; "decadent" is a moral judgement.

entirely correct, you got me there.

but i wasnt aiming to get any type of serious discussion going on the subject. decadent feels like the correct word though, so i guess my stance is partly moral afterall.

 

[Briosafreak]

Actually you tradicionally went to the pitch with two central defenders and two laterals, but since the seventees the system would be 3/4/3 or 3/5/3 in the game itself, with one lateral as wing attacking at all times and another keeping in the defense/midlle field at all times, or just one defensive lateral playing with someone on the midfield as a marathon runner...with two distributors/defensive midfielders running around in the way they wanted. Wich got to be very confusing (Davids and Seedorf would come late many times when they were needed, and if not the others wouldn't be where when they were more needed) and without good players on the sides the two centrals and another two players would need to run vertically AND horizontally at all times, wich sort of betrayed your efforts quite a few times, even if your players were better than what the results were.

It's called "the Dutch system", comes from the "Total football" you've picked up from the hungarians and developed until it became the most respected attacking system in modern football. Just ask some professional coaches and they'll tell you that Sander, although i saw many games with pure 4/4/2 and 3/3/4, the euro/88 is a good example of this, that i can agree.

My point is that by finally using fast players like in the past but technically superior in the laterals and doing several movements in the midfield to compensate the oponent actions (like a piramid where the points keep moving) you gained a lot. Now if the injured players don't screw up the planned way of playing, and there's more adaptation of the team to the diferent types of play of the oponents (wich was what failed in Euro2002) i really believe that this time they will go far.

 

[Brother None]

3/5/3

!

It's called "the Dutch system", comes from the "Total football" you've picked up from the hungarians and developed until it became the most respected attacking system in modern football. Just ask some professional coaches and they'll tell you that Sander, although i saw many games with pure 4/4/2 and 3/3/4, the euro/88 is a good example of this, that i can agree.

Hey, man, we didn't pick up shit from no Hungarians. Total football, WC '74, all us, baby, all us!

EC '88 had no total football.

We do have it now, though, with forward defenders like van Bronkhorst and Kromkamp and defensive midfielders like Cocu.

My point is that by finally using fast players like in the past but technically superior in the laterals and doing several movements in the midfield to compensate the oponent actions (like a piramid where the points keep moving) you gained a lot. Now if the injured players don't screw up the planned way of playing, and there's more adaptation of the team to the diferent types of play of the oponents (wich was what failed in Euro2002) i really believe that this time they will go far.

Most non-Dutch people think we'll get far. Most Dutch people have already given up hope.

Which is a good sign. The Dutch team has always ridden best by beginning on a low pitch with no support, and the fans growing with the team.

I think we may have a chance mostly because a lot of other teams have nothing to counter us with.

Our strength lies in our offensive play, though, all through the field. This means it's Total Football -/-, because quite frankly a good team with the proper tactic can go through it like a hot knife through butter.

 

[Sander]

Actually you tradicionally went to the pitch with two central defenders and two laterals, but since the seventees the system would be 3/4/3 or 3/5/3 in the game itself, with one lateral as wing attacking at all times and another keeping in the defense/midlle field at all times, or just one defensive lateral playing with someone on the midfield as a marathon runner...with two distributors/defensive midfielders running around in the way they wanted. Wich got to be very confusing (Davids and Seedorf would come late many times when they were needed, and if not the others wouldn't be where when they were more needed) and without good players on the sides the two centrals and another two players would need to run vertically AND horizontally at all times, wich sort of betrayed your efforts quite a few times, even if your players were better than what the results were.

Very true. The system is still referred to as 4/3/3, though, mainly due to the fact that that's the basis. Then the midfield goes forward, the sidebacks move forward, usually one of the central backs moves forward as well, so it's a very versatile way of playing. Hell, two of the goals in the last three games were prepared by a centre back, Ooijer. So yes, it is somewhat reminiscent of Total Football too.
But yeah, you're right in that the system constantly switches around.

It's called "the Dutch system", comes from the "Total football" you've picked up from the hungarians and developed until it became the most respected attacking system in modern football. Just ask some professional coaches and they'll tell you that Sander, although i saw many games with pure 4/4/2 and 3/3/4, the euro/88 is a good example of this, that i can agree.

Yep, Euro 88 wasn't really 4/3/3, neither was '98 or 2000, really. But we do have some technically really good players that allow for a high pace and fast ball-circulation, and we have some proper wingers.

My point is that by finally using fast players like in the past but technically superior in the laterals and doing several movements in the midfield to compensate the oponent actions (like a piramid where the points keep moving) you gained a lot. Now if the injured players don't screw up the planned way of playing, and there's more adaptation of the team to the diferent types of play of the oponents (wich was what failed in Euro2002) i really believe that this time they will go far.

Very true, although what failed us most in Euro2000 was penalties. Two penalties in the game against Italy, both missed, and then the penalty shoot-out. Ugh, that was disastrous.

EDIT: Also positive is that we've done well on German ground in the past. '74 and 88
EDIT2: Fucking hell, what a goal.

 

[ztl_olmi]

I'm rooting for Togo 'cos they have a horrible team, and Trinidad & Tobago 'cos I had a vacation there. I'm so good at choosing winning teams...

 

[mortiz]

I've got to tip my hat to Brazil. Whether South American teams have done well in Europe in the past is completely irrelevent, you just have to look at their side to see that it's going to take someone pulling off a pretty special performance to beat them.

 

[Jebus]

I'm looking forward to seeing Poland play in a few minutes.


I wonder what the look on the Ecuadorians' faces is going to be when they notice their ball is stolen...

 

[Briosafreak]

6 goals and still the game was really blahhh... oh well time for Equator vs. Poland

 

[Sander]

Goddamnit, I'd almost predected it perfectly, if it wasn't for that second goal of the Costa Ricans. So close.

Ah well, at least Ecuador - Poland is looking good so far. Reasonably exciting to watch, better football than with Germany - Costa Rica.