Would people be interested in contributing to NMA's Fallout 4 and DLC review?

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by The Dutch Ghost, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. Zerginfestor

    Zerginfestor dear god, the scrapping

    Apr 18, 2015
    Cool, I hope the review will be the incarnation of our disappointment and wrath of such a mediocre game.
  2. Immortalkickass

    Immortalkickass First time out of the vault

    Dec 4, 2015
    I'm surprised it took this long. An official NMA review is long overdue for any outsider who wants to see for themselves the infamous hatred of scum and villainy that we are well known for. If they don't find anything, they might be convicted of their opinions that we are all just nostalgia-fueled haters who love to shit on any Bethesda game.
  3. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    Some people can't live outside of ignorance. I'd wager at least half of us are older than most of Bethesda's current base too.
  4. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    So, how's the stuff will go together? And what's the schedule?
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    I was just trying to create a google doc for the review, but I can't put it on public so that it is easier for people to add their own bits to it.
    Could all of the people who are participating in the review please PM me an Email address so I can add it to the share list so you can access it?

    These addresses will not be used for anything else, and I will delete them again after adding them to the google doc if you would prefer that.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  6. Deeves

    Deeves Well, he went a little funny in the head . . .

    Jan 21, 2016
    Aw, that's a shame.

    Is it just having trouble setting it up right, or does your gmail contain personal info in it? You could still make a throwaway account just for the Doc.

    Well I was going to add a couple things after seeing if anybody else wrote about them and when I was sure to have some free time to really do some critical thinking or not but I'll just leave them as 'idea seeds' for now.

    • 'War never changes' is said three times in the prologue, yet war has fundamentally changed in the Fallout universe. Instead of war being about resources, it's about four factions over-abundant with resources squabbling over robot slave rights.
    • speaking of robot slave rights, the main theme of the story is totally unrelatable. Both on the front of having a super-genius old man son, and fighting for or against the Synths. Multiple times I had to take a step back and think, 'how is resolving any of this going to help the common guy trying to get by in a wasteland full of raiders and super mutants?' 'I've been in my son's life so little we might as well be strangers. Why do I care about this again?' 'Why am I fighting for these Synths again? The Institute has better living conditions than 99.9% of the outside world. I'd rather help actual slaves first.'
    • Everything breaks down with 15 mins of critical thought. If the Institute advanced this much in 200 years, how come the Enclave didn't have synthetic people? Did the remnants of the U.S. government not have the same resources and scientific personnel coming from premier college educated family dynasties just like the Institute? Why are Super Mutants popping out of the ground? Weren't only ~250 released into the wild from the Institute? Can they breed or can't they? Why does background radiation make insects grow 2,500% their size, Molerats only 120% their size, and dogs are roughly the same? What are the rules here?
    • Everything cool in Fallout 4 is always told to the player and never shown. The Quincy Massacre. The Broken Mask event. The Railroad safehouse raids. The player is perpetually cleaning up past events they only get to hear about second hand until Battle of Bunker Hill and the last mission of the faction of your choice.
    • I like how the Brotherhood was a morally grey faction this time around. Too bad they are the only ones, which makes the angle not work. Why would I ever back the BoS as a character with good intentions if the Minutemen already telegraph that they are the eternal champions of the people who can do no wrong. Why would I pick BoS as an evil character when the Institute are telegraphed as the evil faction that will maintain the status quo at all costs. Either you have good and evil pointed in clear terms or everyone is a bit morally grey from a certain angle, you can't just combine the two.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  7. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    Here's another question to branch from that: Why didn't the Enclave take interest in The Institute long before 2287? Or hell, send a few scouts to infiltrate them and pass the knowledge back to Raven Rock or other bases on the East Coast?

    They had a presence on the East Coast for several decades, yet no one of major importance noticed or got word of synths? I don't buy it.

    EDIT: I may have a way to play the DLCs without coughing up the cash for them. If it works out, I'll update my parts.

    EDIT #2: I don't wish to bloat the review doc just yet, but if anyone wants to offer feedback on this bit I've done for General Story/World, have at it.

    I'm sure many who were paying attention to the pre-release hype for Fallout 4 remember what happened when the news leaked that your character's son was going to be one of the big names among the factions playing at controlling the Commonwealth. Fans who thought this was a huge spoiler went crazy, the joke about how to kill your son went viral, and then we had Pete Hines enter the fray with a statement that regardless of this reveal, players would have more than enough to like about Fallout 4.

    Sorry Pete. That's a lie if I ever heard one.

    In essence, what he's admitting to here is this part of the main plot, the part that pulls your character into and through the world of Fallout 4, is completely forgettable and not as big a deal spoiled as it would've been unspoiled.

    Here's a comparative example, just to show how dumb this is: Let's say Fallout 1 had the same caliber of hype surrounding it that Fallout 4 had, and then some players got their hands into the core of the game early, found out about how the main plot ends, and then posted things like, "Hey, don't ask the water merchants to supply your vault. You'll lose more easily that way." And then let's say Tim Cain (Sorry, Tim) came forward and said, "I'm sorry this got spoiled for you, but it's just one option in our game. You can try it if you choose, though."

    See how dumb this gets? Finding the water chip is the crux of the early game in Fallout 1, and you're on a timer, so of course the water merchants making trips to extend your time seems like a great idea, but being told that choice is not that bad spoiled versus unspoiled is a blatant lie because it changes the outcome of events in the game in a big way.

    All that said, I was laughing all the way to the bank at the reveal for Fallout 4. I was under the impression that your character would be turned synth while under then given false memories before being let loose, you know something very sci-fi and in line with the film the developers thought so highly of when designing this game.

    Of course, the main plot of finding your character's son is terrible in many other ways. For one, it's something that leaves a segment of players, likely a large one, open to simply not care about it and abandon it in favor of wandering the wastes. A major sin for RPG storytelling on par with giving your character the wrong emphasis for stopping the Darkspawn in Dragon Age: Origins. And if the Main Quest is forgettable, what does that say about the rest of the game?

    Now, full disclosure here: I have not played the DLCs, nor do I ever plan to. I've seen plenty of them thanks to past roommates and other players to know that the 49.99 I would be spending to get those DLCs would be better spent on other games, or new PC hardware. What I have to say is strictly on the core game, but, again, if the core story is bad, what should that say about the rest of the game? If the DLCs are where the good stuff is, the game itself is even worse, but if the DLCs are mediocre, then it's a waste of money again.

    In brief, what Bethesda was trying to do with Fallout 4 was ape New Vegas. They gave four main factions vying for the Commonwealth (The Institute, The Railroad, The Brotherhood of Steel and The Minutemen) just as you had four factions vying for New Vegas (Caesar's Legion, The NCR, Mr. House, and Yes Man (Independent)), but they failed to grasp why your choices in New Vegas had such an impact.

    Because the characters and world on display supported the desire of these factions to control such an important area of the West Coast, which in turn made you think about what direction you wanted to take the story, and because the West Coast area of California and Nevada has been part of Fallout canon since 1997. New Vegas drew from the isometric games to help build the world. Fallout 4 builds on whatever Bethesda felt was enough to use from Fallout 3. (Dr. Li and several other faces return from Fallout 3, in fact.)

    What makes this even worse is the fact that there are only two endings in the game: One for if you sided with The Institute, and the other for if you did not. You're also shown no slides detailing choices you made throughout the game, because there are no decisions you can make, or things you can affect, on a scale even comparable to The Necropolis, Vault City, New Vegas, or any other games from Black Isle/Obsidian. That or Bethesda simply left the idea on the cutting room floor like other things I'll get to shortly.

    It really makes one appreciate the slides you earned by finishing New Vegas and Skies of Arcadia. (Yeah, that game had ending slides, and they're still awesome to this day.)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  8. 0wing

    0wing Все умрут, а я волномут

    Mar 23, 2015
    Will DLCs get their own category?
  9. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    They probably should. A spot before the conclusion would work I think.
  10. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    It's strange but it occurs to me I'm more excited about the possibility of a review of Nuka World separate from Fallout 4 than a review of Fallout 4 by itself.

    Could you review the DLC separately from the main game?
  11. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    Probably wouldn't be too hard. I'll add the suggestion to the doc.


    I think I'm done with Draft 1 of my review. Most of it is in Gameplay and Story/World.

    EDIT: If anyone needs an editor for their parts, let me know.

    EDIT #2: I've added a 'Lore' section to the Fallout 4 review doc.

    Also, if possible, can anyone help me iron out the details of why Vergil's serum is a BS retcon?
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  12. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Oct 13, 2010
    Well I just started writing it.
    I plan for it to be my final butchering of Fallout 4, so because of that, it will probably read more like an essay than a review.
    Just to let you know what you're in for, I've spent nearly 1000 words on the introduction alone.
  13. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Is it too late to add mine? :)
  14. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    We've maxed out the number of participants, but if anyone drops out, you may have a shot.
  15. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I should have started earlier! Curses! :)
  16. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    You do realize the review probably wont say many nice things right?
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I never would have guessed! :)

    That's why I volunteered, though, so there's someone to say positive things about it.
  18. AgentBJ09

    AgentBJ09 Vault Dweller

    Jul 9, 2015
    We've got the major gaming websites and even regular YouTubers doing that job already. It's all I see them do these days, even when it was clear from Day 1 Fallout 4 was a game release that would've sunk another studio if they'd done the same job.
  19. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I think it's just a genuinely enjoyable sandbox with a lot going for it.
  20. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    Perhaps you should stay out regardless, I doubt your opinion on the game is representative of NMA's general opinion.
    • [Like] [Like] x 2