xboxone

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Well, wow. They must be mistakes on their side, though, not a DRM policy. Not that it sucks less.

By the way, this is how the whole DRM system of the XB1 is set up as of now:

* Physical discs are used to install games on your machine, at which point they will fall under the same restrictions and DRM measures as games bought digitally
* Publishers decide whether games can be traded in or not and even then, it will only be possible with "participating retailers"
* You can't loan or rent games at launch, though Microsoft is working on this
* You have to connect online every 24 hours - fail to do so and you can't play your games at all
* This is reduced to one hour if you're accessing your content from another console
* You can sell games to those on your Friends List but only if you've been friends with them for 30 days
* Up to 10 people in your Xbox One 'family' can use your licensed content, regardless of what console they access it from

I'd be angry at this if I planned to buy an Xbone.

Fortunately I decided some time age that if consoles were to apply the same restrictions on their game as PC titles, sticking to PC seems the best course of action.

Still, having to connect every day? Even Steam is not that bad thanks to offline mode. I wonder how the average consumer will swallow that BS. It is my (faint) hope that even among the more casual players, this kind of shit won't fly and there will be a backlash in terms of sales. Maybe.

Until then, it seems that next-gen consoles get all the worst parts of PC gaming (DRM, not able to trade games in many cases) without the good parts (powerful and replaceable hardware, modding).
 
I'm genuinely curious how things will unfold now, and if Microsoft goes thorugh with this how many people will put up with this BS. In general the media is being very negative about it (even CNN, BCC, the Times and others have talked of it). And this...well...


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Also, for the lulz:

Microsoft: Online DRM has multiple advantages but I'll name them another time.

Ilosar said:
Until then, it seems that next-gen consoles get all the worst parts of PC gaming (DRM, not able to trade games in many cases) without the good parts (powerful and replaceable hardware, modding).

And low prices!
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
And low prices!

Indeed. I wonder what the consoles will cost at launch. Certainly in the ballpark of 600-700$ if last time was any indication. You can definitely get a more powerful computer for lower prices of you scrounge around a little bit even today. Plus, forget about Steam sales or stuff like that on console if they go through with all those DRM shenanigans. Oh, and no backwards compatibility, so better keep those old consoles around, nothing like GoG here. But I'm sure they will be more than happy to sell people ''HD'' remakes of old games at 60$ apeice, I think they've announced one for Fable (of all things) already.

As for that twitter, I'm pretty sure the Sony fanbase is more vocal than the Microsoft one, don't quote me on that though. Console sales will most definitely follow that trend, and it's all microsoft cares about at the end of the day. But yeah I have noticed lots of bad press about the Xbone (seriously, that is a terrible name for a console).
 
anonymous whispers seem to point at the ps4 being around $300-350 and the xboxone aiming for $250-300
 
Ilosar said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
And low prices!

Indeed. I wonder what the consoles will cost at launch.

I think he means cost of software. Because on PC we get Steam sales and such and Microsoft will have no incentive whatsoever to reduce the price of their software because they "control the market" so to speak.
 
TheWesDude said:
anonymous whispers seem to point at the ps4 being around $300-350 and the xboxone aiming for $250-300

I've heard rumors of 429$ for the basic version of the PS4 and 529$ for the premium. For sure it won't be near 599$, Sony has said they won't repeat the same mistake.

Whatever will be I hope they'll actually convert the price instead of simply swapping dollars for euros.
 
Ilosar said:
It is my (faint) hope that even among the more casual players, this kind of shit won't fly and there will be a backlash in terms of sales. Maybe.
I'd be really surprised if there were any substantial backlash. As a whole, the gaming populace would rather blow seven bums in an alley than be deprived of its fix.
 
UniversalWolf said:
Ilosar said:
It is my (faint) hope that even among the more casual players, this kind of shit won't fly and there will be a backlash in terms of sales. Maybe.
I'd be really surprised if there were any substantial backlash. As a whole, the gaming populace would rather blow seven bums in an alley than be deprived of its fix.

If the PS4 pulls off the same BS? Yes and no. The less passionate crowd will probably just abandon videogaming. If it doesn't? Mh... There's a lot of people that rely heavily on the second hand market to play VGs, not to mention all the people that can't have/afford broadband internet or don't care to have it just to play offline games. Not to mention that to put all those TV features and Kinect they ended with heavily downgraded specs compared to the PS4 (less aw3s0me Gr@ficx to attract people) AND said TV features seem to be aimed mostly for the american market. IMO Microsoft is playing a very dangerous game, but they seem to be convinced that all that will change is that they will rake in more money. I hope I'm right and this will bite them in the ass HARD.

As a side note, if the Xbone fails/underperforms I can see Microsoft abandoning the console market. The OG XBox was a huge money sink and the X360 generated only a small profit for them.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
* You can sell games to those on your Friends List but only if you've been friends with them for 30 days
Correction, publishers choose if you can give a game to a friend who you have been friends with for at least 30 days. Each game may only be transferred once in this way.

Link for those interested: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

If they took away all of the bullshit restrictions it would be pretty cool. Remove publisher choice from all of this crap and allow games to be transferred an unlimited number of times, possibly with a cool down period (can't be transferred for the first 30 days after a transfer). Also don't require people to go through retailer middlemen, the only group that's helping are the EBGames and such.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
As a side note, if the Xbone fails/underperforms I can see Microsoft abandoning the console market. The OG XBox was a huge money sink and the X360 generated only a small profit for them.
Much as that would bring a smile to my face, I can't imagine that such an event would result in anything but a massive clusterfuck that would only serve to do MORE harm to console gaming. We'd no longer have to listen to people going on and on and on and on about how THEIR console is better than YOUR console, because people would only have the latest PlayStation and whateverthefuckNintendocallstheirs. But the lack of competition would only make things worse. Competition is what makes the PC gaming situation so much better. There is no ONE PC build, with only a handful of alternate version several years down the road. The number of different build possibilities are incalculable, because different parts from different companies makes for more options and lower prices. EVERY time someone gets a total monopoly, it always gets worse. The only thing keeping Valve from becoming the demon that people think it's incapable of is the preexisting built-in competition that butts heads with Steam. If Microsoft fell out of the console market, that wouldn't automatically usher in a replacement who would take the reigns in the wake of their departure, although that certainly COULD happen... But if Sony had nothing to compete with, given the track record of theirs in taking a wonderful product and bogging it down with worse and worse restrictions and stripping it OF the content that made it so wonderful.... I wouldn't hold any hopes of things getting "better".

As far as the whole absurd DRM issue is concerned... WHAT is so hard to understand about this simple process:

-If it's downloaded digitally on multiple systems (shared by the owner) you can place a limitation on whether ANYONE can play them simultaneously, or if it's free game. The PS3 used to allow up to 1 owner and 4 recipients to use digitally shared content (that is, like everything else, before they changed it for the worse) and it GENERATED increase profit for them! Players had more incentive to buy games from the online store because they could share games with friends, so even though the total copy on digital sales might not have been higher, the overall instances of purchases still went up. Not to mention this all being DIGITAL, there was no money lost to disc production, shipping, and everything else involved in that.

-If the game can be installed to the system from the disc, why not just require the disc to allow the game to be played? WHERE did this inconceivable sign-in-once-a-day idea spawn from that Microsoft forgot how PC games accomplished this for DECADES? Long before Blizzard became a gaming juggernaut, they kept their games locked to a system by requiring the CD when the game was booted up. This was a hassle-free method of ensuring that 1 copy of the game would be in use per CD. (Blizzard's infamous CD Keys were developed to combat game piracy, but of course, like ALL of this DRM, that didn't do much besides inconvenience the honest gamers and delay the pirates.) Why come up with this concept of purchasing the rights to play your game AFTER your purchased the actual, physical game? What's the point? So what if the original owner of your used copy installed the game to their system and never deleted it? They don't OWN the disc anymore!

There's just so damn many creative solutions to the "problems" associated with game production (which is, in reality, merely fear of the consumer, nothing more) that it really boggles my mind that of all the possibilities, we get the shit post above... It's unbelievable.
 
SnapSlav said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
As a side note, if the Xbone fails/underperforms I can see Microsoft abandoning the console market. The OG XBox was a huge money sink and the X360 generated only a small profit for them.
Much as that would bring a smile to my face, I can't imagine that such an event would result in anything but a massive clusterfuck that would only serve to do MORE harm to console gaming. We'd no longer have to listen to people going on and on and on and on about how THEIR console is better than YOUR console, because people would only have the latest PlayStation and whateverthefuckNintendocallstheirs. But the lack of competition would only make things worse. Competition is what makes the PC gaming situation so much better. There is no ONE PC build, with only a handful of alternate version several years down the road. The number of different build possibilities are incalculable, because different parts from different companies makes for more options and lower prices. EVERY time someone gets a total monopoly, it always gets worse. The only thing keeping Valve from becoming the demon that people think it's incapable of is the preexisting built-in competition that butts heads with Steam. If Microsoft fell out of the console market, that wouldn't automatically usher in a replacement who would take the reigns in the wake of their departure, although that certainly COULD happen... But if Sony had nothing to compete with, given the track record of theirs in taking a wonderful product and bogging it down with worse and worse restrictions and stripping it OF the content that made it so wonderful.... I wouldn't hold any hopes of things getting "better".

I'm not hoping things will get better with time but if the options are "using lube" and "mandingo going in dry"...

After all if things go completely down the drain I'll just return fully to PC gaming (like old times) and/or retrogaming.

-If it's downloaded digitally on multiple systems (shared by the owner) you can place a limitation on whether ANYONE can play them simultaneously, or if it's free game. The PS3 used to allow up to 1 owner and 4 recipients to use digitally shared content (that is, like everything else, before they changed it for the worse) and it GENERATED increase profit for them! Players had more incentive to buy games from the online store because they could share games with friends, so even though the total copy on digital sales might not have been higher, the overall instances of purchases still went up. Not to mention this all being DIGITAL, there was no money lost to disc production, shipping, and everything else involved in that.

It was generating more profit? Do you have hard data on that? I have a hard time believeing that any increase in sale due to the appeal of that option could balance the "loss" of having 5 copies of a single game at the price of one. :S And wouldn't a limitation on simulatenous play (to make it work like physical games) require to be always online?

-If the game can be installed to the system from the disc, why not just require the disc to allow the game to be played? WHERE did this inconceivable sign-in-once-a-day idea spawn from that Microsoft forgot how PC games accomplished this for DECADES?

Data mining on consumer habits, maybe? Or probably it was the only way to make such stiff anti-lending/selling measures work. Also the fact that you don't have to swap disc is touted as a selling point, go figure.

There's just so damn many creative solutions to the "problems" associated with game production (which is, in reality, merely fear of the consumer, nothing more) that it really boggles my mind that of all the possibilities, we get the shit post above... It's unbelievable.

This is just a scam to make more money, it's not there to fix any problem. The used game market is worth billions of dollars and they want a piece of it.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
This is just a scam to make more money, it's not there to fix any problem. The used game market is worth billions of dollars and they want a piece of it.
It's a chicken and egg cyclical self-fulfilling mistake. The current setup of the gaming industry has MADE used games "worth billions of dollars" by removing the profits from retailers, thus forcing them to create their own method of generating revenue. By falsely pursuing trends that don't ACTUALLY matter for the sake of further profits, the game producers raise the cost of their products, and fix prices of their said overpriced products to generate those wanted profits, causing strain on the supply chain model and forcing retail outlets to use a manipulative method of selling those game in such a manner that the money funds them and not the game producers, and the method has to reflect the prices SET by those producers, which makes for a lot of money going their way. Wanting "a piece of it" is just further insanity. Create your own monster, then rage at its existence? What utter hypocrisy. Create an industry model that makes a lot of money (out of NECESSITY) because of the absurd prices you've set and the profits you've denied and sucked up from anyone else at every turn, then reflexively covet the very thing you created as a reaction to your own greed?

And if any of that's hard to follow... I guess you just don't know much about what the gaming industry DOES, and why major gaming retail outlets like Gamestop do what they do? Not that ANY of it is a good thing, but there's reasons it's done.
 
SnapSlav said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
This is just a scam to make more money, it's not there to fix any problem. The used game market is worth billions of dollars and they want a piece of it.
It's a chicken and egg cyclical self-fulfilling mistake. The current setup of the gaming industry has MADE used games "worth billions of dollars" by removing the profits from retailers, thus forcing them to create their own method of generating revenue. By falsely pursuing trends that don't ACTUALLY matter for the sake of further profits, the game producers raise the cost of their products, and fix prices of their said overpriced products to generate those wanted profits, causing strain on the supply chain model and forcing retail outlets to use a manipulative method of selling those game in such a manner that the money funds them and not the game producers, and the method has to reflect the prices SET by those producers, which makes for a lot of money going their way. Wanting "a piece of it" is just further insanity. Create your own monster, then rage at its existence? What utter hypocrisy. Create an industry model that makes a lot of money (out of NECESSITY) because of the absurd prices you've set and the profits you've denied and sucked up from anyone else at every turn, then reflexively covet the very thing you created as a reaction to your own greed?

And if any of that's hard to follow... I guess you just don't know much about what the gaming industry DOES, and why major gaming retail outlets like Gamestop do what they do? Not that ANY of it is a good thing, but there's reasons it's done.

It's not hard to follow at all, I gave that impression? :S

Yeah, the used game market is as big as it is now because of them, but they believe that they can get in the way without breaking or severely damaging the cycle. It's fantastic how in the last months various shills and PR mouthpieces basically said "well we don't want to adapt our budgeting to the realities of the market therefore the market has to adapt to our needs". Oh boy, they are in for a rude awakening, measures of this kind never ended well. And the PS4 is DRM-free on top. Fun times ahead for them. :lol:
 
pyroD said:
$399 for PS4. And the PS4 also seems to mockingly contradict all of the Xbox one's flaws.

Yeah, if microsoft doesnt do something drastic soon they are going to have big problems. The one good thing they have done is kinect... though not really having anything to do with gaming, other people have done some pretty cool things with microsofts technology
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
SnapSlav said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
This is just a scam to make more money, it's not there to fix any problem. The used game market is worth billions of dollars and they want a piece of it.
It's a chicken and egg cyclical self-fulfilling mistake. The current setup of the gaming industry has MADE used games "worth billions of dollars" by removing the profits from retailers, thus forcing them to create their own method of generating revenue. By falsely pursuing trends that don't ACTUALLY matter for the sake of further profits, the game producers raise the cost of their products, and fix prices of their said overpriced products to generate those wanted profits, causing strain on the supply chain model and forcing retail outlets to use a manipulative method of selling those game in such a manner that the money funds them and not the game producers, and the method has to reflect the prices SET by those producers, which makes for a lot of money going their way. Wanting "a piece of it" is just further insanity. Create your own monster, then rage at its existence? What utter hypocrisy. Create an industry model that makes a lot of money (out of NECESSITY) because of the absurd prices you've set and the profits you've denied and sucked up from anyone else at every turn, then reflexively covet the very thing you created as a reaction to your own greed?

And if any of that's hard to follow... I guess you just don't know much about what the gaming industry DOES, and why major gaming retail outlets like Gamestop do what they do? Not that ANY of it is a good thing, but there's reasons it's done.

It's not hard to follow at all, I gave that impression? :S
Only your difficulty with the English language (if you tried to explain something to me in Japanese, I'd need GOOD LUCK understanding it all without getting lost! >_< ) But that last block was directed at general viewers, while the first paragraph was only partially directed at you, and largely at anyone else who didn't know or understand already.

What's leaving me puzzled is that, for a couple weeks, all of this fuss was over SPECULATION, because Microsoft had only alluded to these details of their new DRM, but they'd never come out and confirmed it, really. But NOW they've boldly stepped forth and deadpan-faced responded to all the criticism and questions with, "Yes, that's exactly what we want it to do..." and the uproar hasn't seemed to spike over THAT. Just the price tag...

I mean, really...
 
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