xboxone

SuAside said:
Anyway, stop bitching & just don't buy it? Vote with your wallet. I've never owned a console & I'm not going to start now.

I have no intention of buying a Xbox or Playstation, I was just stirring the pot :P , but thanks for the some insight into Braun, those guys were years ahead of their time. I feel sorry for the future generations, their life will be totally ruled by their gizmo's (if it isn't already).

CRI_8535.jpg
 
I always get annoyed when people seem to think Steve Jobs was a multifacet genius that programed and designed everything apple did by himself. I guess it doesn't help that the man liked to act like he was.



I hate Apple.







Not the fruit, those are delicious.
 
I'll start this by stating that I have no plans on buying any console, I don't see the point of straying from PC especially with my lack of gaming habits these days.

aenemic said:
Meh, I actually like how it looks. And I love that we're moving back to the more square-ish designs of my youth. Things looked more awesome in the 80's and early 90's. Either way, it looks slick and won't stand out much on your tv furniture. That's something I like. I don't like flashy gimmicky stuff.
I don't mind how it looks (better than the PS2) and appreciate the more rectangular profile, it just fits places better.

Walpknut said:
I always get annoyed when people seem to think Steve Jobs was a multifacet genius that programed and designed everything apple did by himself. I guess it doesn't help that the man liked to act like he was.
Jobs was a great CEO, there's no denying that. The man had an eye and a brain for business but so did Bill Gates, who doesn't get enough credit for his success. That said, this is going off on a weird tangent...
 
It's not entirely tangential when the matter of Apple's success is brought up. Ever since his death, Jobs has been credited with all kinds of innovations that honestly weren't even his ideas. Sadly, it's just typical reverence for the dead, which elevates someone you had no regard for or were even invisible to you when they were alive to some deific status now that they're not. I like the IDEA of how successful of a CEO Jobs was, but having learned about what he actually DID, I'm not a fan of the man.

It may sounds cruel, but I almost feel that it's poetic justice that he died because for a brief time he wanted to let "nature" do his healing for him, that when he finally came around to his senses that realized (or maybe he never even did that) that it was all a crock, it was too late to save his life.

Well, enough darkness out of me... I'm undecided as for the whole console thing. I've been an avid supporter of Sony ever since purchasing my own PS2 back in 2005, and I've watched what was once a masterful and ingenious marvel of technology that was the PS3 become a bogged down and over-hyped recipient of bad ideas to the point of being just another disappointment. I loved my PS2 and I loved my PS3 before all the changes made it less remarkable than it once was, but it never blinded me to the flaws of the whole system. "The whole system" being the monolithic console arbiters governing what is and isn't gaming, I mean. That PCs have many different markets within their own sphere of influence, governed by many different competing interests, and the XBox only ever has Microsoft, and the PlayStation only ever has Sony, etc. I liked my console for a period, but the lack of competition just drove it to such a prolific degree of stagnation that I can't really say that I'm definitely NOT going to be getting the PS4 XBO, but nothing about them is really drawing me in, either. No more backwards compatibility like it used to have? More DRM than the last generation? Uh, I'll take a rain check...
 
I just get annoyed when some prick comes along and says

"Can you believe Steve Jobs didn't even study Industrial or Graphic design? INCREDIBLE!"

and I am like

"Yes I can, because he didn't design the damn things..."

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I have had that conversation.
 
SnapSlav said:
No more backwards compatibility like it used to have?

Do you want Sony to put a Cell processor in every PS4 and drive the price up of 50 bucks? It sucks, but it had to be expected. :\

More DRM than the last generation?

We don't know if Sony will pull the same stunt MS did, and there's a tiny sliver of hope that the backlash will make MS reconsider too (not that I care, the XB1 has never been on my radar).
 
They should just monetize the shit out of the Used games market. Some big line stores like to bully developers but if they just go ahead and actually offer things for people that buy new copiesand at the same time puts them at the monetary hands of people who buy used games they would do just fine. Altho Microoft already charges for being able to play online and download indie games and shit, they are already charging extra to everyone, used games buyer or not to actually be able to play most of their games to their fullest. I got so pissed off because I didn't know that, and I spent 2 weeks practicing in Persona 4 Arena to play online matches, only for the stupid console to tell me that I needed to pay a fee to play online despite the fact that I bought the game new, I even had to import it because I couldn't find it in Colombia for shit's sake.
 
Walpknut said:
They should just monetize the shit out of the Used games market. Some big line stores like to bully developers but if they just go ahead and actually offer things for people that buy new copiesand at the same time puts them at the monetary hands of people who buy used games they would do just fine. Altho Microoft already charges for being able to play online and download indie games and shit, they are already charging extra to everyone, used games buyer or not to actually be able to play most of their games to their fullest. I got so pissed off because I didn't know that, and I spent 2 weeks practicing in Persona 4 Arena to play online matches, only for the stupid console to tell me that I needed to pay a fee to play online despite the fact that I bought the game new, I even had to import it because I couldn't find it in Colombia for shit's sake.

Wait, what? Your wording is a little unclear. Does the X360 version of P4A need an additional fee to play it online on top of the Live subscription? O_o
 
I am talking about the Live subscription. The 360 is not exactly mine. My mother bought it for her to use the Kinect (lol) so I went visiting on vacations with the Persona4 Arena game I imported for that occasion. I was only familiar with the PS3 and 3DS and PC use of the wi fi features (I just connect and play) so i was pissed off when I realized I wasn't gonna be able to play online. I don't have a credit card and in my mother's hometown there are no videogame stores that sell the xbox point cards.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Do you want Sony to put a Cell processor in every PS4 and drive the price up of 50 bucks? It sucks, but it had to be expected. :\
Well let's just be clear about the pitfalls OF the Cell Processor (before I get to your actual question)... It was a BRILLIANT technological feat, but it was like choosing Imperial system over Metric. It wasn't bad, it was just doomed to failure because success necessitated that everyone ELSE adopt it, too. It was a nice attempt, but it was presumptuous and overambitious.

As for your actual question... Who says I need the PS4 to be backwards compatible with PS3 titles? Not ruling out that PS3 games WERE successfully ported over into other systems, despite the difficulty of translating from the Cell Processor, but really that's besides the point. What made the PS3 so amazing (initially) was that ALL that history of PS games could be played on it, as well. As many have argued, the simple availability of EVERY PC game ever coded being playable on any PC, as long as you download the appropriate emulator, is a major boon for PC gaming, and thus why the PS3 was so great for a time. Hell, that was what made the PS2 so popular during its generation.

But ultimately, that blip of a whine of mine wasn't just directed at the PS4, but rather ALL consoles that have forsaken backwards compatibility. The 360 had to have it patched into the system, one game at a time. The PS3 had firmware updates that removed PS2 compatibility, and later models didn't have ANY backwards compatibility at all. I'm not arguing that it's pointless to do so, because obviously that involves spending resources to make it happen. I'm just displeased with it.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
We don't know if Sony will pull the same stunt MS did, and there's a tiny sliver of hope that the backlash will make MS reconsider too (not that I care, the XB1 has never been on my radar).
I just don't see the "more DRM" trend EVER decreasing, regardless of who's involved. Sure, Sony's levels of DRM weren't maniacal in PS3 exclusives... but they were there. Sony didn't invent nor did it own the concept of digital downloads, but it had a digital games market (which always surprises me when I hear 360 fanboys parade that they get "Games on Demand" however many months later on XBLA.... because Digital Download goes live THE SAME DAY as the retail release, on PSN <_< ) and digital downloads have always been a DRM I've had a love-hate relationship with. I do love the convenience of owning a title, digitally (not to mention the longevity they add to any disc reader), but I hate that once the platform expires or falls out of favor... so does your ability to play the game you OWN. You bought it, it's yours, yet you can't play it anymore. Well, tough luck! (I have the same dilemma about Steam. Lovely service, but it's still a form of DRM that I despise it for.)

Walpknut said:
I just get annoyed when ...
...
You wouldn't believe the amount of times I have had that conversation.
The degree of situational irony in that is just staggering. All I can say it... Welcome to my world. Shit happens where someone comes along and acts all incredulous about something that I knew about for goddamn ages.... all... the... time... -_- Rarely ever has to do with Steve Jobs, I mean, the topics I typically run into are irrelevant to this conversation. But the sentiment is ALL too familiar to me.
 
SnapSlav said:
As for your actual question... Who says I need the PS4 to be backwards compatible with PS3 titles?

Didn't you say you were bummed that next gen console woulnd't have backwards compatibility? :S In the case of the PS4 it simply wasn't feasible since the PS3 relies on a custom CPU.

What made the PS3 so amazing (initially) was that ALL that history of PS games could be played on it, as well. As many have argued, the simple availability of EVERY PC game ever coded being playable on any PC, as long as you download the appropriate emulator, is a major boon for PC gaming, and thus why the PS3 was so great for a time. Hell, that was what made the PS2 so popular during its generation.

Well, it's not like the PS3 could actually play ALL PS2 games (and even among the compatible ones there were issues). And even then it could play most of them because it had the PS2 CPU included, which was later cut because it was too costly, which is the same reason it won't be available on the PS4.

I wonder if an add-on that let's you play with PS2-PS3 game would actually be possible and successful.

Sure, Sony's levels of DRM weren't maniacal in PS3 exclusives... but they were there.

Like what? O_o Honest question. Are you talking of Online Passes? Or digital download games?
 
You seem to have difficulty reading what I'm saying. Stop taking what I'm saying in bite-sized single sentences. The sentences that follow have just as much relevance to what I'm saying.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Didn't you say you were bummed that next gen console woulnd't have backwards compatibility?
Perfect example. No, that's not what I was saying. I was saying that backwards compatibility was vanishing in ALL of the consoles, both current and next generation. I explained my feelings regarding this, already. Quote: "But ultimately, that blip of a whine of mine wasn't just directed at the PS4, but rather ALL consoles that have forsaken backwards compatibility. The 360 [...]. The PS3 [...]."

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Well, it's not like the PS3 could actually play ALL PS2 games (and even among the compatible ones there were issues). And even then it could play most of them because it had the PS2 CPU included, which was later cut because it was too costly, which is the same reason it won't be available on the PS4.
Only yes, it could. The PS3 was, originally, 100% backwards compatible with PSX and PS2 titles. All of them. Also I already addressed that later models removed these features, and that it was because of costs. You're not bringing up a point with me, because I already made that point, myself. That's really irritating.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Like what? O_o Honest question. Are you talking of Online Passes? Or digital download games?
Again, I ALREADY said what; just read what I goddamned wrote already. IMMEDIATELY after the end of the quote you pulled from me, I went on to say this:
"Sony didn't invent nor did it own the concept of digital downloads, but it had a digital games market [...] and digital downloads have always been a DRM I've had a love-hate relationship with. [...] I hate that once the platform expires or falls out of favor... so does your ability to play the game you OWN. You bought it, it's yours, yet you can't play it anymore. Well, tough luck!"

That was just an example and, again, I also specified that Sony wasn't AS bad as others, but that they still utilized the other forms of DRMs. Let's not forget the debacle where PSN went down for several months back in 2011, and the shitstorm that created. That wasn't the network getting hacked, mind you. That was Sony intentionally taking their own network down in (sever over)reaction to the threats and actions made by Anonymous. They took down their own servers, and suddenly for most PS3 owners, the console felt useless because of all the content that was locked from them. What's scary about this was that it predated Diablo III and its infamous "Error 37" clusterfuck by almost 2 full years, yet that spectacle still took place. These are why I'm so despondent to all this DRM bullshit; because the INDUSTRY is continuing to perpetuate this horrible standard, but the industry providing ample examples for how terrible it is in the very first place...
 
Walpknut said:
"Yes I can, because he didn't design the damn things..."

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I have had that conversation.
I feel you, I have the same conversation frequently.

SnapSlav said:
Only yes, it could. The PS3 was, originally, 100% backwards compatible with PSX and PS2 titles. All of them.
I think what he was getting at was that there were PS2 titles that the PS3 had issues with or couldn't play just as there were PSX titles the PS2 had issues playing. They were far and few between and unintentional but they did exist. It's an anal point and it was infinitely better than the selective backward compatibility of the 360 which only chose to play "Greatest Hits" games.
 
You seem to have difficulty reading what I'm saying. Stop taking what I'm saying in bite-sized single sentences.

English isn't my first language and addressing small parts makes it easier for me to say what I want. If you want we can talk in italian and then I'll be more eloquent, I promise.

SnapSlav said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Didn't you say you were bummed that next gen console woulnd't have backwards compatibility?
Perfect example. No, that's not what I was saying. I was saying that backwards compatibility was vanishing in ALL of the consoles, both current and next generation. I explained my feelings regarding this, already. Quote: "But ultimately, that blip of a whine of mine wasn't just directed at the PS4, but rather ALL consoles that have forsaken backwards compatibility. The 360 [...]. The PS3 [...]."

This was what you wrote (emphasis mine):

"No more backwards compatibility like IT used to have"

While, as a matter of fact, you mentioned both consoles before, the whole post regarded the PS brand and Sony. Maybe my english is failing me but are you telling me it wasn't easy to misinterpret?

Only yes, it could. The PS3 was, originally, 100% backwards compatible with PSX and PS2 titles. All of them.

Except no, it couldn't. There are some games that don't work and others that have issues of some kind.

Again, I ALREADY said what; just read what I goddamned wrote already. IMMEDIATELY after the end of the quote you pulled from me, I went on to say this:
"Sony didn't invent nor did it own the concept of digital downloads, but it had a digital games market [...] and digital downloads have always been a DRM I've had a love-hate relationship with. [...] I hate that once the platform expires or falls out of favor... so does your ability to play the game you OWN. You bought it, it's yours, yet you can't play it anymore. Well, tough luck!"

That's not really DRM, though. Unless you count every catrdige based system as such. It would be a different story if they required online checks a-la Steam but they don't.

They took down their own servers, and suddenly for most PS3 owners, the console felt useless because of all the content that was locked from them.

Most owners? You mean those that use the PS3 mainly to watch Netflix and the like, right? Not that the whole thing wasn't handled terribly by Sony but talk about exagerating. The console could still be used to play your offline games (DD games included).

These are why I'm so despondent to all this DRM bullshit; because the INDUSTRY is continuing to perpetuate this horrible standard, but the industry providing ample examples for how terrible it is in the very first place...

I'm with you here. And it's amazing (and depressing) how many people don't seem to have a problem with the BS they do.
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
This was what you wrote (emphasis mine):

"No more backwards compatibility like IT used to have"
[...]
Maybe my english is failing me but are you telling me it wasn't easy to misinterpret?
Exactly, "it" has no such emphasis in the English language as I think you were providing. "It" does not denote a particular thing, "it" will only refer to whatever the subject has been stated or implied to be. Because I referred to multiple consoles and several generations of said consoles, "it" was a continuation of that same topic, not any deviation of it.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Except no, it couldn't. There are some games that don't work and others that have issues of some kind.
Garlic expressed this point better than you did, and in that regard, I'll concede. There were hang-ups, BUT these were not deliberate. For all intents and purposes, the system was DESIGNED to be 100% backwards compatible; it was simply the reality of flaws that it wasn't. The 360, by contrast, actively avoided the feature. If it was to be a last-generation title played on this generation's system, it was going to be part of a (very meager) list or, more likely, be a digital download. Pop in the disc you already own and play away? HELL NAH!!!!

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
That's not really DRM, though. Unless you count every catrdige based system as such.
I don't even know HOW you're managing to compare the 2, because they're NOTHING alike. Sega has been out of the hardware market for decades, yet I can still play Sonic 3 & Knuckles on my Nomad whenever I want to. There's nothing stopping me from firing up my old, physical systems and playing them, besides natural wear and tear. They're not DESIGNED to be useless once the craze for them dies down. By direct contrast, once Steam is gone, EVERYTHING you bought on Steam is gone with it. It won't matter if you have your PC in pristine condition, 10 years down the road, able to still be booted up despite the fact that it will be woefully underpowered compared to what's available, then. You won't be able to access Steam now that it's gone. You'll still have your physical system, and that won't have any bearing on your ability to play it. That's DRM.
 
SnapSlav said:
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
This was what you wrote (emphasis mine):

"No more backwards compatibility like IT used to have"
[...]
Maybe my english is failing me but are you telling me it wasn't easy to misinterpret?
Exactly, "it" has no such emphasis in the English language as I think you were providing. "It" does not denote a particular thing, "it" will only refer to whatever the subject has been stated or implied to be. Because I referred to multiple consoles and several generations of said consoles, "it" was a continuation of that same topic, not any deviation of it.

I didn't put the emphasis to mean that it's empahtized, just to show where it's the problem (or alternatively where I goofed up).

"It" is singular, not plural. You should have wrote "No more backwards compatibility like they used to have" or am I missing something?


I don't even know HOW you're managing to compare the 2, because they're NOTHING alike. Sega has been out of the hardware market for decades, yet I can still play Sonic 3 & Knuckles on my Nomad whenever I want to. There's nothing stopping me from firing up my old, physical systems and playing them, besides natural wear and tear. They're not DESIGNED to be useless once the craze for them dies down. By direct contrast, once Steam is gone, EVERYTHING you bought on Steam is gone with it. It won't matter if you have your PC in pristine condition, 10 years down the road, able to still be booted up despite the fact that it will be woefully underpowered compared to what's available, then. You won't be able to access Steam now that it's gone. You'll still have your physical system, and that won't have any bearing on your ability to play it. That's DRM.

Er... You said this:

Sony's levels of DRM weren't maniacal in PS3 exclusives... but they were there. Sony didn't invent nor did it own the concept of digital downloads, but it had a digital games market [...] and digital downloads have always been a DRM I've had a love-hate relationship with

DD games on the PS3 don't need online checks, can be played offline* and from what I know there are even roundabout ways to make yourself a backup. So...how's that DRM?

*[spoiler:445233b498]Ok, ok, actually there's four or five DD games that can't be played offline/need an online check. [/spoiler:445233b498]
 
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
"It" is singular, not plural. You should have wrote "No more backwards compatibility like they used to have" or am I missing something?
Slang, I'm guessing. Just like it's not necessarily grammatically correct to refer to someONE as "they" if you're avoiding specifying their gender, but as far as informal English goes, "they" is often used as a gender neutral term. Yet it's technically a plural term being used to describe an individual. "It" is used in ways that's not proper, in slang, such as referring to an intangible concept that is neither singular nor plural. In this case, I was referring to an nonspecific idea of this generation's console. Similar in style to the phrase "They don't make it like they use to" which is a derivative of "They don't make them like they used to". Again, a matter of slang.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
DD games on the PS3 don't need online checks, can be played offline* and from what I know there are even roundabout ways to make yourself a backup. So...how's that DRM?

*[spoiler:99c28e6150]Ok, ok, actually there's four or five DD games that can't be played offline/need an online check. [/spoiler:99c28e6150]
I've been away from the system long enough that I don't even remember all the details. But I know there were games I downloaded that I have since been unable to download again, and not for lack of "subscription" or anything along those lines. Just pure "Oh, you still wanna play that? Well.............. sorry!"
 
SnapSlav said:
I've been away from the system long enough that I don't even remember all the details. But I know there were games I downloaded that I have since been unable to download again, and not for lack of "subscription" or anything along those lines. Just pure "Oh, you still wanna play that? Well.............. sorry!"

First time I hear of an episode like this. I know that games are pulled off from the marketplace when publishers feel like it but as long as you bought them they are available for re-download on yours "your downloads" (or whatever is called) page on PSN.
 
xbox does that too.. Just yesterday i tried to redownload fnv on my xbox and they apparently forget that i ever bought it. I guess they think I just downloaded all the dlcs and addons for kicks
 
Well, wow. They must be mistakes on their side, though, not a DRM policy. Not that it sucks less.

By the way, this is how the whole DRM system of the XB1 is set up as of now:

* Physical discs are used to install games on your machine, at which point they will fall under the same restrictions and DRM measures as games bought digitally
* Publishers decide whether games can be traded in or not and even then, it will only be possible with "participating retailers"
* You can't loan or rent games at launch, though Microsoft is working on this
* You have to connect online every 24 hours - fail to do so and you can't play your games at all
* This is reduced to one hour if you're accessing your content from another console
* You can sell games to those on your Friends List but only if you've been friends with them for 30 days
* Up to 10 people in your Xbox One 'family' can use your licensed content, regardless of what console they access it from
 
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