It's again that time of the year ... or Muslim bashing!

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Yeah, but you have to do some serious mental gymnastics to justify viollence in Buddhism. I mean their big problem, is apathy. Just let everything happen, it's karma.

    In Sri Lanka some Buddhist monks advocate viollence against musilims with the argument that they preserve Buddhism. An argument rejected by the Buddha though.

    "Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves."
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.021x.than.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  2. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am a big fan of Hamed Abdel-Samad and his works, seriously you should check it out. He is a bit ... crazy to say the least, because he directly compares Islam with Fascism, but outside of that I think he makes some very good points.

    I have a Quaran at home, and I also read the parts they talk about here, and sadly it's all correct.


    Obviously, the Muslims are not the, I know many of them and they are normal people. But, no one can tell me that Islam is a religion of peace or that there isn't an inherent problem with the ideology behind it.
     
  3. therealyesman

    therealyesman His Imperial Majesty

    Nov 19, 2016
    Quite annoying to compare a 2000 year old book to an ideology. Islam isn't a political statement, rather a way of life (which can be seen as a political statement), but it really isn't.
     
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  4. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    There are many small tid-bits that would level out people's idea of this entire debate, but news outlets don't like unity, because it doesn't seem to sell.
    For example, in the aftermath of the worst of the Libyan civil war, when the Muslim Brotherhood was taking over, a lot of the veterans from the fighting felt that their victory had been completely hijacked. I saw reports where fighters, rebels were in tears, others were furiously frustrated. All of them muslims, and all of them outraged that a religious organization was trying to hijack their effort. "Religion is a private matter" was something they repeated. Not to mention the young Egyptian boy going on this eloquent rant against fundamentalism, with one elderly man standing behind him, almost exploding with pride.

    These are examples of the muslims that Breivik and his ilk *insist* do not exist, with their "moderate islam is a myth"-rethoric.
    That rethoric in itself is an old, time-tested dehumanization tactic, that sadly resonnates in a lot of people, because it plays right into the "good versus evil" idea many have of the world.
     
  5. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    He doesn't dictate. the lord gave you a freewill. He just laid down a set a rules that change depending on the mood he is in and only let's a few people in on them, so you should totally listen to them because they are in the know with the big guy and they can tell you what's up.
     
  6. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    Did you just assume God's gender?!
     
  7. Jogre

    Jogre It's all JO'Ger now

    Oct 25, 2015
    I don't think anybody actually argues that. I think that's just a strawman that the right made up to justify there islamophobia.

    I think that in the real world most people, regardless of whether left or right, are perfectly happy to admit that terrorists are horrible people who do horrible things, it's just that most of the left think that you shouldn't blame entire ethnic groups for the actions of radical individuals.
     
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  8. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    I don't think that the entire ethnic group should be persecuted for the actions of one individual, however, we need to improve security, we need to stop these ridiculous things (especially in Germany, a man got arrested for insulting a terrorist and distracting him http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/696646/Thomas-Salbey-Munich-shooter-Ali-Sonboly-prosecution) that prevent us from speaking up about it and actually saying something about it, I mean, come on, there's 30 year old men pretending to be children, how is that NOT suspicious, all I'm saying is, is that we need to control immigration, otherwise well, you know at this point.
     
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  9. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    The case of Salbey, well when I saw the footage, I thought to my self that he's an idiot. Someone has a gun and is batshit crazy, and all you do is to make him even more angry? What if the guy started to shoot randomly at him and others? You have to talk people out of it, not into it.
     
  10. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    An idiot? Maybe, but what he did helped others survive the massacre, had he not, more than 9 people may have died in said slaughter, again, what he did may be considered idiotic to some, but really, the shooter was not going to calm down, the kid was utterly deluded.
     
  11. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, I always thought you don't argue with someone who's crazy and holds a gun. But that's just me.
     
  12. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    He wasn't thinking about himself though, he was trying to stop the shooter so others could GTFO, he just found arguing to be the best way to do that, even if it was quite stupid to do so.
     
  13. GonZo_626

    GonZo_626 Well Shit!

    Jul 29, 2016
    "A Hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down", this man did what he could, yes it may be dumb for himself but that does not mean he may have saved people lives with his actions. Personally I think running to and trying to disarm said crazy person would be a dumb thing to do for yourself, and the right thing to do for everyone.
     
  14. The notorious OVB

    The notorious OVB Realpolitik Scrubjunker.

    Dec 28, 2016
    Yep, let me try and disarm this guy from my apartment window, genius idea, let me just grab my ten fishing rods or something.
     
  15. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Reminds me of this dude in Mexico, who was shooting random travellers in a metro station (man, Mexicans and Muslims, eh!?) and this chubby uncle-dad-type who relentlessly launches himself at the gunman, recieves bullets, one after the other, tumbles around, gets the fuck back up, all swiss-cheese'd, goes for the gun again, goes down, gets back up, goes for the gun again

    He dies - SO hard...

    In the end the gunman is emptying everything in this poor chub's face

    but what a gallant sacrifice. Or stupid sacrifice.

    It's the same as above: Stupid, for him. Gallant, for everyone else.
     
  16. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I am not so sure about that.

    There was this deranged teenager that threw a mask over his face, went to a school and started going from classroom to classroom shooting randomly at everyone with his handgun, up to the point when a teacher in the hallway stoped him by saying his name and that he has now to shoot him too, to which the teenager responded "Naw, it's enough for today", in that moment the teacher grabed the young guy, throwing him in a classroom and locking him up. The teenager ended up killing him self when the police arrived.

    This was crazy no doubts about it, but the teacher didn't put anyone else but himself in danger.

    Arguing with a crazy person, that might or might not randomly shoot at others, isn't the most intelligent way to stop someone, that's all I am saying. But that's my opinion. What if the guy started shooting at the balcony or some buildings around him and eventually hitting someone? Would people still call this old fart heroic? I am not so sure about that ... when people start to get on a killing spree they do it beacuse they they are already frustrated and angry, making them even MORE frustrated and angry. Again, I just don't see how that could do any good. And remember, I saw the video and I understand German. Who knows really what the trigger is for those people? Hence why often enough the only way to stop them, is to gun them down.

    If this kind of tactic would work so well, we would never see negotations happen, but only insults thrown around. Look, I am not blaming that old cranky guy. I am just saying, everyone was damn lucky that the guy wasn't simply starting to shoot at everyone again due to the frustration.
     
  17. BigGuyCIA

    BigGuyCIA Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Oct 26, 2016
    The shooter is still accountable for his own actions, regardless of whether or not he was taunted and ridiculed before or after the shooting.

    Tensions run high in these situations, and the guy yelling at the shooter was pissed. Can't blame him for that. It's easy to play the role of Captain hindsight after everything is said and done without putting yourself into the same situation that these guys were in.
     
  18. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    That's why I said that I was taught not to argue with batshit crazy people that have a gun and just finished shooting a couple of random bystanders. But hey! That's me.

    By the way, don't insult my or your intelligence here by thinking I would do some victim blaming here. When I was a teenager, a police officer once explained to our class how bad viollence is by using a known criminal as example who stabed someone who called him a son of a whore and that the crazy idiot is now in jail, none of us said the criminal shouldn't get a punishment, but seriously, how often do you think you can step on a snake and not expect to be bitten? Kinda funy how the police officer became more and more irritated by our answers, that the guy should have maybe thought twice about insulting one of the most dangerous people in town - everyone in class knew who he was talking about.

    That was the environment I have kinda grown up with, I had the luck that some people taught me, to watch my steps and actually think about the consquences of what I say, that I should maybe not insult every random stranger just beacuse I feel like it or beacuse I think it is my 'right' to be pissed right now, that you should sometimes swallow your anger and all that. Sure, yes, hit those criminals with everything the jurisdiction has to offer, but how is that gona help you when the asshole stabed you to death because you couldn't shut your mouth? The same shit with my room mate who refuses to buy a light for his fucking byiycle. Why should I care if the cars can see me! I am bicycle user! And even if they hit me, I will be right in court! Yeah, you troglodyte, but how's that helping you when you sit on your ass with a broken spine ...

    What I am talking about here is simply common sense, rational thinking, considering the consquences to your actions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  19. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Of course he is a dude. He built things.
     
  20. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    And he has a long white beard