Fallout 3: Fallout At It's Finest

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Heisenberg, Feb 18, 2021.

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  1. JustAShcookius

    JustAShcookius It Wandered In From the Wastes

    141
    Sep 4, 2020
    I am aware of this. I should have put something like that in the original post. Its not that I HATE the inclusion of Fallout 3 music, its just that I feel that it "tarnished the masterpiece" with it's inclusion. Thanks for being *that* guy :smile:
    Edit: F:NV deserved a lot more than the hand me down music from a sub-optimal game.
     
  2. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    In the Classic games, Fallout happens in a future earth in a different timeline. The divergence was not pinpointed, it was left as one of the mysteries of Fallout. All the devs said was that it happened somewhere after WW2.

    Here's the divergence explanation on the Fallout Bible:
    But in Bethesda's Fallout, there's evidence that it diverged way before that. Due to my awesome investigative skills, I can tell you that I found evidence of Bethesda's Fallout Earth having diverged since (at least) the Cretaceous period. :o
     
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  3. JustAShcookius

    JustAShcookius It Wandered In From the Wastes

    141
    Sep 4, 2020
    Yeah I noticed this with the lovecraftian shit they added later. That samurai guy in Mothership Zeta was supposedly abducted in the 1600's as a side fact.
     
  4. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Resident Schizo Poster

    Jun 15, 2015
    I think that may have to do with Bethesda direction. My guess, given that Bethesda was still on a high from Skyrim, that they told Zur to make the soundtrack more "Epic" and "Fantastical" like Skyrim. Sawyer on the other hand probably told Zur to make the soundtrack have a Western tone. It makes sense given that Obsidian wanted New Vegas to be a "Weird Western".
     
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  5. Morgan_

    Morgan_ Duckerz

    Jul 3, 2020
     
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  6. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    And here I thought this is a thread actually criticizing Fallout 3, for all or some more of the stupid shit I may or may not have missed. You know, what Fallout: Washington DC is actually 'at its finest'. But nope, just a genuine attempt at trying to make it sound better than what one might think....or just a simple, albeit too obvious, troll.

    Eh, I thought even in Fallout 3, most of his soundtracks sounds like they belonged in the Elder Scrolls setting instead of Fallout. I really can't remember anything else from Fallout 3, aside from the military-esque soundtracks that would also play here and there in New Vegas.

    But yeah, Inon Zur is actually pretty competent at making good soundtracks that actually fits the setting, but like RangerBoo said he needed a good direction. Otherwise, we'll get soundtracks for Oblivion with Guns.
     
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  7. JustAShcookius

    JustAShcookius It Wandered In From the Wastes

    141
    Sep 4, 2020
    Indeed. This is the same Inon Zur who composed the ambient music tracks used in Dead Money, (minus original songs of course) which in itself was a masterpiece. You will hear me fanboy that DLC and most everything about it on this forum often.

    He also co composed a game called Company of Heroes years ago; It is a WW2 RTS. This is one of his little known works which in my opinion he did very well.

    Germans usually get the good themes in games:

     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  8. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    511
    Feb 27, 2021
    Since this thread is active again, I just want to highlight my favorite quote here for a good laugh.
     
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  9. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Since I don't have anything of relevance to post, here's my favorite Fallout 3 quote:
     
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  10. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Gonk 0 Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! So bad it becomes good again!
     
  11. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Middle aged guy> SHAAAUN
     
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  12. KingArthur

    KingArthur When’ll you wake up n’ see/true freedom is anarchy

    Jun 25, 2018
    My favorite part of that quote is that Lucas Simms’ response is “Nope, haven’t seen anyone like that.” as though he’s sheriff-mayor of Little Lamplight or some shit.
     
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  13. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Pfft, nice hat Calamity Jane.
     
  14. KingArthur

    KingArthur When’ll you wake up n’ see/true freedom is anarchy

    Jun 25, 2018
    I bet the Lone Wanderer wouldn’t say that to Easy Pete, unless he wanted to get a fistful of dynamite.
     
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  15. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    Great film; could have been made into a decent FO3 quest.

     
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  16. xxdemonxspawnnxx

    xxdemonxspawnnxx First time out of the vault

    35
    Apr 13, 2021
    1. I don't get why Fallout 3 fans praise it for it's atmosphere. I guess because it is their first fallout game? Walking through tunnels and subways wasn't fun either.

    2. True. But it is a let down knowing I am going to find the same darts or 10mm pistol, no matter where it is. I prefer NV's map anyway.

    3.I agree there are great side quests in FO3, but Superhuman Gambit is not one of them(or is it just me?). The Power of Atom might be a legendary quest, but there are lot of quests in NV that goes further. Eye for Eye, Come fly with me, Wheel of Fortune are some examples.
     
  17. xxdemonxspawnnxx

    xxdemonxspawnnxx First time out of the vault

    35
    Apr 13, 2021
    How is Enemies being regional more pseudointellectual than having enemies spawn according to your level? It becomes completely unberable after level 28 as you start to encounter albino radscorpion everywhere.
     
  18. Copey

    Copey First time out of the vault

    33
    Feb 14, 2022
    What a cursed thread.

    My personal favorite is Haley's "Thats what I'm here for!". Almost like Bethesda is breaking the fourth wall, but I can't be entirely sure if its a self-aware line or not.
     
  19. Mστh

    Mστh Forum DM Moderator

    248
    Mar 8, 2022
    Hoo boy - what a start. I have a feeling where this is going to go. Don't worry, you're not the first one on the internet to come to NMA to try to preach about the "virtues" of Fallout 3 and why Todd Howard was god's gift to the series and I'm sure you're not the last. Despite the fact that this discussion has been done to death on this forum, I'll take a swing at this.

    I actually agree here... begrudgingly and with two huge asterisks - we'll get to that soon. The atmosphere of Fallout 3 was really good, the best I've seen since Fallout 1 (big emphasis on "since", neither Fallout 3 nor any other game has done the post-nuclear atmosphere better than Fallout 1), even Fallout 2 had too much of a silly element to it's atmosphere. I had up until that point failed to see a game since Fallout 1 which captured the post-nuclear apocalypse atmosphere so well - although a few games like ATOM would take that crown. I'm pretty sure even the most hardcore haters of Fallout 3, at one point or another reflected on how good the atmosphere was. You do really get the feeling at many points in the game that you're trudging through a fairly-recently destroyed civilization, with the feeling of loneliness and desperation unshakeable in certain areas.

    The Asterisks:
    That being said... the atmosphere also makes no fucking sense considering the time period Fallout 3 is trying to go for. You're telling me 200 years after the war and the Capital Wasteland STILL looks this way? What in the flying fuck has humanity been doing for the past 200 years, sitting around huffing jet with it's thumb up it's ass? Bethesda could have easily circumvented this issue if they had set the game to take place around the time of Fallout 1, but they just had to have the Enclave plot line. Speaking of - let's talk about the game world. The atmosphere is great, the world and setting is great (even though that's really just chalked up to having the affinity and charisma of being Fallout) but you know what isn't great and fucking stupid? What's IN that world.

    You've got Super Mutants, Enclave, BOS, gangsters, ghoulified Chinese spies(wtf?!), and so much absolute nonsense all condensed down into one small area that it's like somebody took every single thing that was ever in a Fallout game, threw it into a blender, and hit the "Fuck It" button. They took everything that people criticized Fallout 2 for being too silly and over-the-top of, and then turned the notch up to eleven. Super Mutants with no explanation as to why they're on the East Coast other than "yeah, so they took a cross country hike to escape the BOS and look for more FEV (something that was supposed to be unique to the Mariposa facility, a West Tek facility that created and was experimenting with it but for no reason at all is suddenly in a vault on the opposite side of the nation). The Enclave are there... besides the fact that their entire command and leadership was fucking atomized.

    Oh, and for no reason, absolutely no fucking reason, Harold is there... on the East Coast. WHY?!? I'm guessing it was just so they could have an iconic character, and then look over at the old school fans and say "see? We listened". Also, D.C. is absolutely infested with ghouls like it got hit with a fucking zombie virus, this makes absolutely no sense. If ghoulification was that easy, why isn't L.A. and every other major city on the West Coast absolutely infested with the things? The conditions needed to create a ghoul were supposed to be very specific in the old lore, but for Bethesda, "fuck it". Apparently radiation = ghouls. Bethesda - the pinnacle of "fuck it".

    Anyways, I can probably write up a 5,000 word report on the D.C. area and Fallout 3 make no fucking sense at all. Then I could probably expand that to 25,000 words if I went and used all of the old archived threads we have here from the 08-10 era. But for now I'm hoping four paragraphs is enough to suffice.

    This is... dumb. I'm sorry* but this is nonsense. First off, Fallout 3 literally copied and pasted Oblivion's map design philosophy for 75% of the map. Settlements, then surround said settlements with dungeons. Rinse and repeat until done. It's all very bland and shit is often in places that make absolutely no sense, like Tenpenny's skyscraper being literally in the middle of nowhere. On top of that, the actual settlements are pitifully tiny - if you didn't know anything about Fallout lore I wouldn't blame you if you thought the game was taking place just a few decades after the bombs fell (something they arguably should have done to justify how they made the world). Raiders outnumber people living in the settlements, and for some reason the Talon Mercenary Company is fucking massive. Who the hell are they taking jobs from that's making them so rich? Tenpenny? The Enclave (lol)?

    Now let's talking about the other 25% of the map, D.C. D.C. was done in the way that it was, being a couple of closed off zones interconnected via sewer and rail systems, because Bethesda didn't put in the time or effort to build a full city of ruins. Now I'm not even blaming them for anything, that's a huge task and it's makes sense why they did it the way they did (though it is fairly criticized). However, to act like it's a stroke of genius in map design and it was done to elicit a certain feeling or atmosphere from you... no. Just no. It was done so they could cut down on what otherwise would have been a massive amount of work hours and a sizeable portion of disk space (which, worrying about disk space was still definitely a thing in 2008). Many players understandably criticized the fact that while they were in D.C., they had to spend equal or almost more time in the metro and sewers than they did exploring the actual city.

    * Disclaimer - Not actually sorry

    I'm going to stop you right here. No they don't. This has been talked about to death, and no they fucking don't. Maybe - maybe if this was a discussion on Morrowind I would say "yeah ok, I can definitely see that", but the side quests in Fallout 3 are almost all, with the exception of few, boring dungeon-delving dogshit with even worse writing. How many side quests can you honestly tell me weren't "go into this place and get a thing". On top of that, the side quest dialogue writing is just absolute ass. Complete ass, you won't even find that much ass on Kim Kardashian, Fallout 3's dialogue has so much ass.

    Pretty sure that, including the DLC, Fallout 3 has more side quests than Fallout 2 (this may even be true than without the DLC). Standalone, Fallout 3 definitely has more sidequests than Fallout 1 so I'm really not sure where you're getting this "quality over quantity" thing, unless you're trying to criticize the radiant quest system so many games use today. In that case - yeah, I'd take Fallout 3's quests any day over radiant quests, but I think it's also fair to point out Bethesda now uses this very same system... in Fallout...

    Definitely opinion, not fact. And for reasons I explained above, given that the majority of Fallout 3's side quests are fetch quests "go get me this", I'm inclined to vehemently disagree. In fact I respect your opinion just a tiny bit less now because of how atrociously arrogant this line is.

    Don't you think it's a problem you were only able to pull TWO quests up as examples of "good side quests"?*

    Compared to, say:

    * Infiltrating the local mob in Junktown
    * Helping Set perform a coup d'etat and overthrow the Super Mutants in Necropolis
    * Exploring the Glow
    * Intervening in the gang wars in Adytum/Boneyard
    * Working for the Thieves Guild in the Hub​

    And that's Fallout 1. Fallout 1.

    *Side Note - As I said above, the Superhuman Gambit is a perfect example of how Fallout 3 took Fallout 2's wackiness which was criticized and not as well received, and amplified it as if it was something people enjoyed. Poor oversight.

    Lol. C'mon man. Just... come on. That's like saying "the Star Wars sequel trilogy possess some of the most beloved factions of the franchise, such as: the Jedi. The Sith. The Empire (remnants)! The Republic!" All those factions already existed, they built on foundations that had already been established for them, and Bethesda didn't really do much to change any of them except give the BOS altruism. This is kind of a moot point.

    The BOS Outcasts, especially given their sheer irrelevance to the greater world and plot, and small size, did not feel like that... it felt more like a "see, we know the lore" cop out. The way this should have been done would have been to have the Outcasts be the larger portion of the BOS, while Lyons and his group is a small and struggling offshoot. The Brotherhood of Steel, especially by 2277, are almost all raised in the Brotherhood itself, and thus since a young age are taught and indoctrinated in it's ideals. It would have made much more sense, and been more lore accurate, to have Lyons and his group be the small, struggling outcasts, NOT the other way around.

    No. No they can't. They were all specifically sent to the East Coast to look for and attain pre-war tech. Imagine a commanding officer takes his division across an entire country, and then tells his men "yeah... so remember the thing they told us to do? We're not going to do that, we're going to do the exact opposite and go AWOL. Cool? Cool." Better yet, here's a better analogy. Imagine a US division deploying into Afghanistan towards the beginning of the war. Then the Major General in command, the division C.O. turns to his men and tells them, "alright, we're supposed to be here to hunt down the Taliban, but fuck that. I've got a better idea. See those people over there in mud huts farming opium poppy that clearly don't want us here? They need our help, so what we're going to do is sit in their village and defend them, oh and also given them half of our MRE's and water".

    Eh... Alright, so some of the changes and aesthetics he made were pretty good, but again he already had a foundation to build off, and in the case of the T-45 all he really did was take the T-51b and give it sloped armor to give it a more old-school WWII tank-esque look. Not that big of an aesthetic improvement. The leather armor is VERY clearly based directly off Fallout 1's leather armor, who in turn based it off of what Mel Gibson wore in the Road Warrior. The only real difference is that they added some pads and belt straps here and there.

    Again, everything you're appraising them for, are things they were already given hundreds upon hundreds of pieces of concept art and game files to build off of. It's like taking a story in the Star Wars extended universe and saying "look at all these cool, unique and original ideas!" Granted, while they're definitely are original concepts in the SW:EU, they were already given a massive foundation to work from.

    I think the problem here, is that Fallout 3 fans are getting offended that original Fallout fans just flat out don't like the game, and because we were here first you guys not only feel backed into a corner but also like you're obligated to defend something you like. Guess what? You're not. We're just a bunch of fucking dudes on the internet who furiously masturbate over the glory of a video game that is old enough to drink, and older than most of Fallout 4's fanbase. While some might consider our opinion valuable as a site in all actuality our opinion doesn't mean jack shit or have an effect on anything really, Beth proved that after they blacklisted us and, even without our support was able to keep Fallout 3 chugging along to become a best seller and critically acclaimed game.

    So let me put it this way. Fallout 3 is a good game in it's own right. Fallout 3 is NOT a good Fallout game.

    EDIT & P.S.: If you noticed not many people here cared to write up a thought out response. That's because this argument is literally older than Fallout 3 is (it's been going on since FO3's development), we've all seen and had it a hundred times over, and most NMA posters kind of just want it to die because they're so sick of it. Only neckbearded fans like me still care enough to write up responses.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2022
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  20. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Mildly Dipped

    567
    May 12, 2020
    You’re thinking of Fallout Tactics. In 3 the super mutants all come from Vault 87. There was no cross country hike for the super mutants, that was the explanation for how the BOS got there.