FearMonkey
Vault Senior Citizen
SnapSlav said:
Well, I can turn the power back on without killing any ants and lie to Raquel that I took care of the ants. I take a Karma hit though. :p
Fallout: New Vegas quest troubleshooting (spoilers)
- Thread starter FearMonkey
- Start date
Vault Senior Citizen
Well, I can turn the power back on without killing any ants and lie to Raquel that I took care of the ants. I take a Karma hit though. :p
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
Well technically a "fix" would be added dialog where Cass specifies (or hints at) the source of her awareness of your character's karma alignment. She's meant to be a character who's BOTH faction-specific, but also morality-specific, too. This is in contrast to a character like Boone, who's faction-specific, but because he thinks of himself as a monster, he doesn't really have anything to say about morally questionable behavior... as long as it doesn't benefit the Legion or damage the NCR in any way! So removing Cass's reactions to karma would defeat the purpose of her being distinct in that respect.
Anywho, that's besides the point...
Anywho, that's besides the point...
FearMonkey
Vault Senior Citizen
I wish they had turned off Fast Travel in Hardcore Mode. It's really tempting to use it.
But I haven't.
Takes so long to go back to Primm from New Vegas. Is there a short cut or something that doesn't take me through the middle of Deathclaw territory? :p
I have been looking. Maybe I'm just not being careful enough. *shrug*
But I haven't.
Takes so long to go back to Primm from New Vegas. Is there a short cut or something that doesn't take me through the middle of Deathclaw territory? :p
I have been looking. Maybe I'm just not being careful enough. *shrug*
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
FearMonkey
Vault Senior Citizen
Perfect. Thank you. 
While exploring the area south looking for a way through the Deathclaws I ran into Hidden Valley and Boone (who I told to wait in Novac) decided to leave the party and return to Novac (where he already is because I told him to wait there). I assume that's because I'm not allowed to bring in companions in that area because of the BoS quests? Or is it because if Boone were with me, he wouldn't want to go where I'm going? Regardless, I lost my Spotter perk.
While exploring the area south looking for a way through the Deathclaws I ran into Hidden Valley and Boone (who I told to wait in Novac) decided to leave the party and return to Novac (where he already is because I told him to wait there). I assume that's because I'm not allowed to bring in companions in that area because of the BoS quests? Or is it because if Boone were with me, he wouldn't want to go where I'm going? Regardless, I lost my Spotter perk.
Stanislao Moulinsky
Vault Fossil
FearMonkey said:
Wow, didn't know you could do that.
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
Primm Pass isn't exactly "a short cut or something that doesn't take me through the middle of Deathclaw territory", it takes you EXACTLY through Deathclaw territory. If you don't kill anything, the pass is guarded by a very perceptive (yet ironically blind) Deathclaw, and it's VERY territorial. It's no longer a problem for mid-range characters once they kill it (but acts as a deterrent against low-level characters skipping much of the map to reach Novac at the start) but if you leave it be, it will always remain there, making the pass quite treacherous. IF it gets killed, somehow, the pass is still immediately adjacent to the second-most-dangerous Deathclaw nest in the entire game- more dangerous than Quarry Junction, and home to the most vicious creature in the entire vanilla game (and only surpassed by a tiny handful of DLC monsters). Use this route at your own risk.
There's all sorts of shortcuts through the entire map, with varying degrees of danger. The most harmless are passing around Red Rock Canyon, which just has a Raider encampment and Fire Geckos to look out for, or the Radscorpion Gulch bordering Goodsprings. You can also cut through Black Mountain if you've managed to talk down Tabitha (though some hostile Mutants will still spawn, from time to time), but Hidden Valley is the most centric and easiest shortcut, available for all players. The scorpions are rarely a threat to players just "passing through", and there are many different passes and ledges that can be used to avoid them, and it connects several different parts of the map.
On the subject of Hidden Valley, there's nothing there that would prompt Boone to leave you. It looks like he had a timer for how long he could be told to wait somewhere before he returned to his post in Novac, and your arrival at Hidden Valley was just coincidental. He's not strictly fond of the Brotherhood, but he doesn't open fire on them like the rest of the NCR troops do; he's only openly hostile toward Legion, and even then you can "stop" him attacking them by disguising yourself as Legion.
And yes, it would've been nice for Hardcore Mode to disable Fast Travel. Well, there's always mods, for that! =)
There's all sorts of shortcuts through the entire map, with varying degrees of danger. The most harmless are passing around Red Rock Canyon, which just has a Raider encampment and Fire Geckos to look out for, or the Radscorpion Gulch bordering Goodsprings. You can also cut through Black Mountain if you've managed to talk down Tabitha (though some hostile Mutants will still spawn, from time to time), but Hidden Valley is the most centric and easiest shortcut, available for all players. The scorpions are rarely a threat to players just "passing through", and there are many different passes and ledges that can be used to avoid them, and it connects several different parts of the map.
On the subject of Hidden Valley, there's nothing there that would prompt Boone to leave you. It looks like he had a timer for how long he could be told to wait somewhere before he returned to his post in Novac, and your arrival at Hidden Valley was just coincidental. He's not strictly fond of the Brotherhood, but he doesn't open fire on them like the rest of the NCR troops do; he's only openly hostile toward Legion, and even then you can "stop" him attacking them by disguising yourself as Legion.
And yes, it would've been nice for Hardcore Mode to disable Fast Travel. Well, there's always mods, for that! =)
Knight Captain Kerr
Still Mildly Glowing
I never had companions with me when I did my no kill runs.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
@SnapSlav
As you said, that one Deathclaw is blind, therefore easy to sneak out.
As you said, that one Deathclaw is blind, therefore easy to sneak out.
Distance beetwen Prim Pass and Deathclaws' Cave is enough, to avoid any interaction.
There is plenty of Cazadores, that's why I didn't mention that. One blind deathclaws > few cazadores
FearMonkey
Vault Senior Citizen
SnapSlav said:
Yup, this seems to be the case. Reloaded an old save and after a certain amount of time passed, Boone left again. Oh well, so much for that exploit. :p
Stanislao Moulinsky
Vault Fossil
Languorous_Maiar said:
"The western entrance to this pass is next to the Emergency Service Railyard. Its eastern entrance is near to Harper's shack, and can be accessed by heading southeast from the shack and following the terrain back to the west. There is a blind deathclaw here that will notice anyone attempting to enter the pass, even if they are sneaking. "
"Don't be fooled by the fact that they are blind. With their blindness comes a heightened sense of their surroundings, meaning a higher Perception. However, they do not attack with as much power as their sighted brethren, arguably making them a decreased (albeit harder to avoid) threat. Even though they cannot see, their alertness to your presence will in fact alert all other deathclaws nearby of your position despite the one that found you being blind. "
I can testify that the bastard can sense you a mile away, and there isn't a lot of room to try to sneak around him. It wouldn't be a problem if you can get your hand on a Flare Gun, but you have to go into the Divide to get one.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
I was determined to kill the bastard, once, after figuring out sneaking around him impossible even with Stealth Boys. I scrounged for as many mines and grenades as I could (even if my character had little Explosives skill) and filled by weapons with as much ammo as I could. This was at level 3-4, BTW. I finally managed to get him, took me a few tries, all my mines, most of my grenades, and a full minute of spraying him with my SMG as he limped towards me with both legs broken. Good times. But of couse, in a pacifist run that's a big no-no.
It also seemed like its comrades at the cave never went very far, I used the pass time and again with no difficulties.
It also seemed like its comrades at the cave never went very far, I used the pass time and again with no difficulties.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
Challenge ACCEPTED!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAYY/qaVhPnvufWk/s1440/2012-08-31_00006.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAYg/VPOz6pUH90g/s1440/2012-08-31_00007.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAYk/h06ag6XcMY0/s1440/2012-08-31_00008.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAYw/qnigCnnZiw8/s1440/2012-08-31_00009.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAY4/NttMXaYffUU/s1440/2012-08-31_00010.jpg
done, without stealth boy there is only more luring.
+
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAZU/Q5JyUt98URc/s1440/2012-08-31_00013.jpg
mhm.
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
And that's a "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!" response..... how? You post a couple pictures which illustrated the use of a Stealth Boy, exclusively, and only demonstrated the Deathclaw clearly detecting you, if presumably being unable to locate your exact position (since your game is in another language, one can't be certain). That doesn't show important details such as your character, present stats/level/skills, and absolute certainty that you weren't running any mods or console commands. Pictures are also subject to a form of "editing" in which you simply don't show the failures, but only the images that can count as a "success".
That didn't really prove anything...
I could present a slideshow OR a video of my strafing along the side of the cliff, exploiting the crappy pathing of the engine, and thus making the Blind Deathclaw retreat because of its inability to reach me, then run to the shack and reload from the quicksave, and claim that it proves "you can avoid it!" But that wouldn't count; in fact, it would simply prove the opposite. That's just exploiting the limitations of the engine, and even when you're exploiting it, the Deathclaw's programming CLEARLY detects and engages you. If no tricks were being employed, then in that example you'd be dead.
That didn't really prove anything...
I could present a slideshow OR a video of my strafing along the side of the cliff, exploiting the crappy pathing of the engine, and thus making the Blind Deathclaw retreat because of its inability to reach me, then run to the shack and reload from the quicksave, and claim that it proves "you can avoid it!" But that wouldn't count; in fact, it would simply prove the opposite. That's just exploiting the limitations of the engine, and even when you're exploiting it, the Deathclaw's programming CLEARLY detects and engages you. If no tricks were being employed, then in that example you'd be dead.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
He's only detects that someone is near him, nothing more and he's only scripted for that. That's why Primm Pass is the best short cut.
When Deathclaw detected you are near him (uwaga - caution), he very slowly keep going for you, trying to find you. But crouching player is faster than searching deathclaw, that why he can be easily sneaked out. If you want, I can create video.
When Deathclaw detected you are near him (uwaga - caution), he very slowly keep going for you, trying to find you. But crouching player is faster than searching deathclaw, that why he can be easily sneaked out. If you want, I can create video.
I used 0 tricks, gash... yeah, I proved something, but even with the evidences, you must be right. Nice egomania.
Stanislao Moulinsky
Vault Fossil
Languorous_Maiar said:
If you can, make a video of you sneaking around him without a Stealth Boy. I'm curious to see how long it takes.
CthuluIsSpy
A Smooth-Skin
It's times like this that I wish you could pick pocket deathclaws...that last pic there was a perfect opportunity to unleash some explosive pants shenanigans.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
Ok, I already recorded them.
I had problem with converting from .avi (40 sec and 500 mb) to any other type of file. Ironically, after 30-40 min. of trying I converted to .wmv but youtube didn't recognize it as .wmv making upload impossible even if file is 5 mb!
(I found in google that type of rendering might be problem, but it mean nothing for me, any thought for future?) Ehh, finally uploaded into some polish site. Here you are.
http://w887.wrzuta.pl/film/0S8FNsDMRJL/deathclaw_sneak_out
Uwaga - caution
Don't mention even blocking with cliff, if I want I can lure him anywhere I want and then go around him, however that is the fastest way.
Also, he isn't blocked, at the end of video there is still caution, meaning he slowly follows me, but at that moment I can get up and just run off.
He didn't detected me, he is "suspicious of mine presence and are searching for me.", that's all.
If I can use turbo, I can sneak out him without any luring. That's why Logan's Loophole trait for peacfull character could be great. Trait + some perks = 60.8 seconds per single use, allowing me to simply ignore stealth boys for all sneaking part.
(yeah, I know, non-skipable advertisement.)
I had problem with converting from .avi (40 sec and 500 mb) to any other type of file. Ironically, after 30-40 min. of trying I converted to .wmv but youtube didn't recognize it as .wmv making upload impossible even if file is 5 mb!
(I found in google that type of rendering might be problem, but it mean nothing for me, any thought for future?) Ehh, finally uploaded into some polish site. Here you are. http://w887.wrzuta.pl/film/0S8FNsDMRJL/deathclaw_sneak_out
Uwaga - caution
Don't mention even blocking with cliff, if I want I can lure him anywhere I want and then go around him, however that is the fastest way.
Also, he isn't blocked, at the end of video there is still caution, meaning he slowly follows me, but at that moment I can get up and just run off.
He didn't detected me, he is "suspicious of mine presence and are searching for me.", that's all.
If I can use turbo, I can sneak out him without any luring.
That's why Logan's Loophole trait for peacfull character could be great. Trait + some perks = 60.8 seconds per single use, allowing me to simply ignore stealth boys for all sneaking part. (yeah, I know, non-skipable advertisement.)
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
Because he clearly hasn't noticed:
"IGNORANCE If someone comments on or asks a question about a matter ALREADY explained/answered for them, that warrants swift, unrelenting punishment; don't be that guy." -my signature
--------------------
1) Languorous_Maiar suggests Primm Pass as a route to use to cut through the Mojave, without any qualifiers or explanation.
2) I mention it's dangerous, ESPECIALLY for a Pacifist playthrough. I add, "the pass is guarded by a very perceptive (yet ironically blind) Deathclaw". I also mention the Scorpion pass near Goodsprings.
3) Languorous_Maiar ignores the "very perceptive" part, and misquotes me that because the Deathclaw is blind it's therefore easy to avoid.
___He misses the mention of the (relatively safe) Scorpion pass, and cites Cazadores as why my suggestion is not as safe I claim.
4) SEVERAL users post anecdotal and factual/descriptive information regarding Primm Pass and Blind Deathclaws, and that they're HARDER to avoid than normal ones.
5) Languorous_Maiar arrogantly posts "Challenge ACCEPTED!" and follows up with screenshots. The screenshots merely show him being near Primm Pass, nothing more.
6) I point out that MANY important details are missing, and that a video would be better. Among the requested details: "[his] character, present stats/level/skills, and absolute certainty that [he wasn't] running any mods or console commands."
___I also cite a HYPOTHETICAL situation to express how and why proof needs to be addressed objectively, and that without details, it can be misconstrued to "prove" what it essentially debunks.
7) Languorous_Maiar doesn't address the request for more details. He misquotes me again, citing my hypothetical as though I was referring to him, and insults me for being "an egomaniac who must be right".
8) Another user, Stanislao, asks for that video.
9) Languorous_Maiar posts a video which doesn't address ANY of the request details, and only acquiesces to not using a Stealth Boy. Without the context of the important information, again, his "proof" proves nothing.
--------------------
Languorous, you have REPEATEDLY made dodgy claims, failed to back them up, and when confronted you insult members, rather than admit to any fault. When you're addressed, whether it's directly proving you wrong, or simply pointing out that your support is lacking in sufficient detail, you FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE this lack of sufficient detail, and simply post irrelevant filler with no substance. For example: Where's the quick Pip-Boy flash to show your character's stats? Where's the fresh load to prove no commands were used? Where's the proof that you approached the spot FROM THE WEST, at low level (below 10, but 5 would be preferable) and accomplished the same results? These are simple notions of the scientific process; isolation of variables. Addressing (not ignoring) what could influence your results.
If you are criticized, that's a "point". The correct response is a "counterpoint", not a deviation such as a) an insult, or b) an irrelevant and unrelated point. You address the criticism with equal opposition that discredits it, OR you comply with it.
Criticisms is, by definition (and it's IN the word) part of critically "judging the merits and faults of something or someone in an intelligible (or articulate) way", it is neither personal, nor inflammatory/insulting.
Trying to win arguments with token phrases (Challenge ACCEPTED!) or insults (calling someone an egomaniac) is childish, and doesn't actually address nor does it discredit ANY of the criticisms of you or your claim.
You have been "that guy", and much harsher response was warranted, but I think I was relatively tame, despite that. Take this response, reflect on it, ACKNOWLEDGE IT, and then come back.
"IGNORANCE If someone comments on or asks a question about a matter ALREADY explained/answered for them, that warrants swift, unrelenting punishment; don't be that guy." -my signature
--------------------
1) Languorous_Maiar suggests Primm Pass as a route to use to cut through the Mojave, without any qualifiers or explanation.
2) I mention it's dangerous, ESPECIALLY for a Pacifist playthrough. I add, "the pass is guarded by a very perceptive (yet ironically blind) Deathclaw". I also mention the Scorpion pass near Goodsprings.
3) Languorous_Maiar ignores the "very perceptive" part, and misquotes me that because the Deathclaw is blind it's therefore easy to avoid.
___He misses the mention of the (relatively safe) Scorpion pass, and cites Cazadores as why my suggestion is not as safe I claim.
4) SEVERAL users post anecdotal and factual/descriptive information regarding Primm Pass and Blind Deathclaws, and that they're HARDER to avoid than normal ones.
5) Languorous_Maiar arrogantly posts "Challenge ACCEPTED!" and follows up with screenshots. The screenshots merely show him being near Primm Pass, nothing more.
6) I point out that MANY important details are missing, and that a video would be better. Among the requested details: "[his] character, present stats/level/skills, and absolute certainty that [he wasn't] running any mods or console commands."
___I also cite a HYPOTHETICAL situation to express how and why proof needs to be addressed objectively, and that without details, it can be misconstrued to "prove" what it essentially debunks.
7) Languorous_Maiar doesn't address the request for more details. He misquotes me again, citing my hypothetical as though I was referring to him, and insults me for being "an egomaniac who must be right".
8) Another user, Stanislao, asks for that video.
9) Languorous_Maiar posts a video which doesn't address ANY of the request details, and only acquiesces to not using a Stealth Boy. Without the context of the important information, again, his "proof" proves nothing.
--------------------
Languorous, you have REPEATEDLY made dodgy claims, failed to back them up, and when confronted you insult members, rather than admit to any fault. When you're addressed, whether it's directly proving you wrong, or simply pointing out that your support is lacking in sufficient detail, you FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE this lack of sufficient detail, and simply post irrelevant filler with no substance. For example: Where's the quick Pip-Boy flash to show your character's stats? Where's the fresh load to prove no commands were used? Where's the proof that you approached the spot FROM THE WEST, at low level (below 10, but 5 would be preferable) and accomplished the same results? These are simple notions of the scientific process; isolation of variables. Addressing (not ignoring) what could influence your results.
If you are criticized, that's a "point". The correct response is a "counterpoint", not a deviation such as a) an insult, or b) an irrelevant and unrelated point. You address the criticism with equal opposition that discredits it, OR you comply with it.
Criticisms is, by definition (and it's IN the word) part of critically "judging the merits and faults of something or someone in an intelligible (or articulate) way", it is neither personal, nor inflammatory/insulting.
Trying to win arguments with token phrases (Challenge ACCEPTED!) or insults (calling someone an egomaniac) is childish, and doesn't actually address nor does it discredit ANY of the criticisms of you or your claim.
You have been "that guy", and much harsher response was warranted, but I think I was relatively tame, despite that. Take this response, reflect on it, ACKNOWLEDGE IT, and then come back.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Where do these people come from?
Anyway, this is no longer about Ghost Twon Gunfight, it should be renamed "Pacifist run Tips" or something.
Anyway, this is no longer about Ghost Twon Gunfight, it should be renamed "Pacifist run Tips" or something.