Fat Shaming: What's NMA's Thoughts?

Don't you see the error here? YOU did it, YOUR experience. Hey! Living 9 months like a hermit might have worked for you. Good! I don't say you're lieing!

But again. This has been proven by MANY(!) experiences to be rather unhealthy and not always an ideal solution.

You know what works, always even? To find out why you are overweight. The reasons. And after you identify them, to change them. And those can be different from person to person.

Maybe eating to much can be the reason, and I would guess quite often it is. But that is also very often rather a symptom of a larger and more complex issue. Nor has it to be the only reason. Most of the time it is a combination of reasons. What you eat or the time, when do you eat the most, during depressions, stress, or could it be only wrong habits? Knowing those is important. Knowing the individual. Your solution, even if it might work for some, is putting the cart infront of the horse.

Imagine someone who's overweight, his reason for eating tons of food is a major depression and hell lot of stress, like at work. What's this Auschwitz diet going to help him if you don't tackle the SOURCE(!) of his issue first? It most probably would even do more harm than good. Threat the bleeding artery before the broken leg. Ever heard about that? Doesn't mean you have to care bear everyone.

And maybe it's not even about what or how much you eat, but simply a lack of exercises. Even if you're eating completely healthy food. But if you're sitting 99% of the day at home and your job? You would have to starve all the time, just to get this "balance". And you would still not fix the issue.

Again. You are ONE person. Not 1 million. With all due respect to your experiences, and achievements. But you can not simply extrapolate all it just like that on millions of overweight people, with the only argument. It worked for me!
 
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Illuminati Confirmed! said:
You're absolutely right, people should only ever preach what a bunch of hacks with various abbreviations before their names say is true, not what their own experiences show them, that would be insane!

Sarcasm aside, I didn't get sick once during the whole starvation period.
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So scientists are all "hacks" and individual experiences trump the scientific method?
 
I just get upset with really overweight people think that eating healthy means eating horrible food when that isn't true.

Chicken breast with fetta cheese seasoned with Thyme, Black Pepper, Basil and Garlic. Cooked with Extra virgin olive oils and some roasted Pistachios on the side, Served on lettuce. Steamed Broccoli and some Fresh Made Spinach.


I remember for one day i tried to eat what i used to and it felt so disgusting (after eating home food) that i couldn't even most of it i had to give it away. What i did eat passed through my system really fast. Anyways, i balance out of life style with a lot of things. Lots of veggies, Small carbs (for now) Meats, Lots of protein from both animal and plant sources, Diary milk and Soy Milk. I don't really care. Fact is i'm objectively really healthy because i eat a variety of things in moderation and get my nutritional needs.

People like boggie2988 have issues that make him turn towards food to eat. One of my solutions to help comfort eaters is to make them eat foods high in fiber and protein with gastric bypass so they become so full they can't even think about eating again. It will hurt, It's effective but it still requires a degree of personal responsibility and nothing with change that if deep inside the person wants to change. Obese people know what they are doing is killing them, some stop it, others try, some fail and some don't. No hand waving and giving a definitive solution will fix things. People will do what they want.
 
Crni Vuk said:
What's this Auschwitz diet going to help him if you don't tackle the SOURCE(!) of his issue first?
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My great uncle was a civilian contractor on a Pacific island in 1941 when the Japanese forces took it over and took him prisoner (along with others). When he was finally released at the end of the war he was rail thin due to the dismal rations. Then as my dad puts it, "he spent the rest of his life making up for it." He was very obese the rest of his life. I only saw him a couple of times when I was a kid, but it definitely sounds like his forced diet caused him to fixate on food.
Crni Vuk said:
Maybe eating to much can be the reason, and I would guess quite often it is. But that is also very often rather a symptom of a larger and more complex issue. Nor has it to be the only reason. Most of the time it is a combination of reasons. What you eat or the time, when do you eat the most, during depressions, stress, or could it be only wrong habits? Knowing those is important. Knowing the individual. Your solution, even if it might work for some, is putting the cart infront of the horse.
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I agree. Foods and their interactions with the human body is hardly settled science. The fact that some people are thin and some are not is a very complex phenomena. We have only recently learned a lot of the weirdness that is going on:

In 2010 a nutrition professor restricted his caloric intake to 1800 calories / day while eating junkfood. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/.
The eating time of day factor affecting weight gain is probably different from what most people think.
http://www.fitday.com/fitness-artic...-night-eating-does-not-cause-weight-gain.html
http://nutritionbite.com/late-night-munchies-done-right/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3263249.stm
There is reduced social pressure to eat healthily and stay in shape when a person's friends, family, and coworkers are obese.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25iht-fat.4.6830240.html?_r=0
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ating-goals-eating-overweight-companions.html
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0039795
Lastly, the bacteria in your stomach and intestines may have more to do with our metabolisms and resulting body-types than we think.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...obese-after-fecal-transplant-overweight-donor

Yes, the basics advice eat less, exercise more works, but the trick in turning that into a lasting and enjoyable lifestyle can be much more difficult for many people.
 
When I used to go to the gym some 7-8 years ago, we had this trainer. A professional bodybuilder in his youth. He was in his 50s when I met him. His diet was pretty extreme, but it worked for him. His goal was to lose as much body fat as possible, so what has he done? Pretty much eating pure fat. At least that's what he told me. Well not only, but a lot of his diet consisted of fat. He calculated exactly how much calories he consumed over a day and made sure to burn all of those. He said he was very succesfull with that. However, I would not think that it is healthy. Definetly not in the long turn. And he was from the pictures I saw in the gym, a professional athelete at that time.
 
Crni Vuk said:
When I used to go to the gym some 7-8 years ago, we had this trainer. A professional bodybuilder in his youth. He was in his 50s when I met him. His diet was pretty extreme, but it worked for him. His goal was to lose as much body fat as possible, so what has he done? Pretty much eating pure fat. At least that's what he told me. Well not only, but a lot of his diet consisted of fat. He calculated exactly how much calories he consumed over a day and made sure to burn all of those. He said he was very succesfull with that. However, I would not think that it is healthy. Definetly not in the long turn. And he was from the pictures I saw in the gym, a professional athelete at that time.
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I don't remember where, but I heard somewhere that it's also similar with pigs. That is, the ones which are grown for lean meat are given more fats, while the ones grown for fat are given more grain.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Pretty much eating pure fat. At least that's what he told me. Well not only, but a lot of his diet consisted of fat. He calculated exactly how much calories he consumed over a day and made sure to burn all of those. He said he was very succesfull with that. However, I would not think that it is healthy. Definetly not in the long turn. And he was from the pictures I saw in the gym, a professional athelete at that time.
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I think a fair amount of our ingested fats and oils pass through us. Also if you read this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism it mentions that for animals we can convert the energy from carbohydrates into fats, but not the reverse process. I agree that in general it is probably not good to have too fatty a diet in the long-term. The guy from Super Size Me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me) had liver issues among others. My father-in-law would go Atkins' diet to make his weight for his annual evaluation for the military, and that probably resulted in him getting gallstones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallstone) shortly thereafter.

Anyway, what I find works best for me to avoid eating unhealthily is mainly drink more water and eat more high fiber foods. I eat all the food groups, but if you want to not feel as hungry even when you have been eating regular meals, fiber + water will help you feel full. Just don't overdo it (I hear that Chia seeds and water is the new trip for people with anorexia). You will definitely eat more vegetables or apples while snacking than eating the same caloric amount of most junkfoods. Also for me if I am craving food when I should have already been satiated by a normal meal, it helps me to obsess a little while working on something. This could be a work project, a hobby, or a videogame. But for me if I am trying really hard to finish something that I really want to do, I will snack much less than if I am kind of bored.
 
Throwing my vastly uneducated and unwarranted opinion into the box again!

Keep healthy to a certain degree, but know that drastic measures aren't going to do much difference. At least, that's what I think, but my knowledge of science begins and ends with high school lessons, TV shows and the Internet because I am not a scientist.

Considering how someone can spend their entire lives avoiding anything harmful to the respiratory system and end up with lung cancer while others can smoke their entire days and end up perfectly fine, there are cases where some biological factors are just plain genetic. In which case, don't go starving yourselves when it may be possible that due to genetics that's just not how your body is going to react to, well, eating less.

"That's now how genetics work!" Why, thank you. I'm just making the best of the stuff I know of. I'm practically a monkey on a keyboard's worth of useful opinions. Trust me on this.
 
Yeah, but I still would avoid smoking. This "he smoked his whole live and never got lung cancer!" is rather anecdotal. I mean you have still to be aware that it's harmfull, which is by now a scientifically prove fact. I don't mean this to judge smokers, but it was always my opinion that "he never got cancer!" is probably the most stupid reason to continue smoking and/or other unhealthy activites. I know what you want to say ... but this example was really ... silly :P

And I never bought this "it's my genes!", as I think it's bullshit. I have the feeling it is really 90-95% behaviour. Genes usually don't work like that. You can't gain 2 kg body fat from eating one snickers. Just to make this clear though, I don't say biology plays no role! But, I feel most people use it as some kind of excuse for behaviour and actions they simply know are shitty and unhealthy. But they have to somehow convince themself that it doesn't matter if they stop it or not. It's in my genes, so why should I even try it? I am bound to fail!

I think a fair amount of our ingested fats and oils pass through us.
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It goes without a saying, what the gym-trainer did was rather unhealthy. But his explanation made sense. The problem, as we all know, if you lower the amount of calories you get trough fat, your body will eventually slow down the fat burning. So his idea? Slow down everything else, and eat lots of fat to boost fat burning. I thought that what he did was crazy. But, well ... I saw images from him in the gym. He was a professional bodybuilder after all. But like I said, even he agreed, that it was crazy.
 
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So? There's obviously a genetic influence (but don't let the poststructuralists hear that), but obesity still requires the appropriate energy input. Now there probably are genetic syndromes that result in building up fat tissue at the expense of muscle and bone mass even when there's not enough energy input, but those syndromes are very rare and usually come with several other issues.
 
I am not sure what the link is supposed to mean anyway. A bit of input would have been nice Buxie. For the case you're link was aiming at me, I never said biology and genes don't play a role.

I mean, even they are rather ambiguous about it.

Like many other medical conditions, obesity is the result of an interplay between behavior, environment, and genetic factors.[2] Studies have identified variants in several genes that may contribute to weight gain and body fat distribution; although, only in a few cases are genes the primary cause of obesity

Just to clarify this, because I am on the same page as Hass here. My comment was aiming at the average joe out there who's claiming his obesity on his shitty genes, heavy bones, you name it. All the while spending no time with exercises, and eating tons of food with a lot of calories.

It's all in the genes.
 
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Genetics can make it harder to lose fat, definitely. But it's very rarely that it is actually impossible, and actual genetic disorders linked to obesity also come with a plethora of other issues.
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I have a dad that is a scientist. He'll posit there are about a thousand little idiopathic things that go away if you exercise regularly because humans are adapted to some level of activity and poorly adapted to being sedentary. That isn't just obesity related stuff, but the general ability to cope with stress and mild immunity/allergy stuff. I have relatives with sensitive skin and they'll claim it helps clear the complexion.

His basic advice is. Walk. Walk a lot. Like four miles every other day. It's not very hard.
 
Thought about this some more. Came to a different conclusion. Society should fat shame a lot more. Fuck if it increases suicides. Its needed to remind people its bad for them.

TorontRayne said:
I just popped in to say I haven't read anything in this thread.
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Can I join you? I regret reading what I have. Need memory wiping technology right about now.
 
It's been proven that healthy habits prolong life. What they haven't proven is that a prolongued life is a good thing. I haven't seen the stats on that yet.

#Scipio: Society should shame people for being assholes a lot more, that way they'll become better persons, or at least keep their assholery to themselves.
 
We're not talking about prolonging life on a machine or something.
Aging is aging because it's the quality of your life that's breaking down.
Muscle is good because if you're older, you have more to lose and you're less likely to be the frail person that slips and breaks his hip and needs one of those Life Alert things.
Same with cognitive reserve and schizophrenia.
 
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