IGN Fallout 3: Six Hours of Exploration

[mulaalia]

But I still say it was 200 years ago, how many things from 200 years ago still bother much of anyone today?

Oh geee, I dunno, how many people in Christian-heritage countries name their child "Judas"?

Also thanks for pointing out how it makes no sense that cars that explode on bullet impact and highly powerful and rare army prototypes would still be around: that makes no sense either.

How many people of Christian-heritage countries name their child "Methuselah"? In the case of Christianity you have a large group of peopel who refer to a text and are able to keep that as a reference. In the FO world you have rag tag communities of people just trying to survive.

How many of the conversations with the townsfolk in FO1/2 do they even speak of nukes, much less a fear of them?

Exploding cars after 200 years = stupid.

Yes you are right about "Methuselah" but problem with your theory are exploding cars with their miniature nuclear explosions
that constantly remind people of their destructive nature

 

[ArmorB]

Yes you are right about "Methuselah" bur problem with your theory are exploding cars with their miniature nuclear explosions
that constantly remind the people of their destructive nature

But leaving the foolishness of FO3 out of it, I still haven't seen evidence in FO1/2 that there would be this grand fear of it.

1st Generation=lots of fear
2nd Gen=less fear
3rd gen=even less fear
4th gen=I'm really hungry
5th gen=...


People worry about the concerns that effect them the most.

 

[fedaykin]

Ahaha. Is it just me or does the weapon in the first pic look very similar to Duke Nukem's RPG launcher?

 

[Brother None]

How many people of Christian-heritage countries name their child "Methuselah"?

Wrong answer, people still name their child Jesus, Pete, or whatever. Plenty of bible-inherited names from that timeframe (2000 years), but Judas dropped out.

Methuselah is 4000 years ago (at least) and the word is idiomatic

In the case of Christianity you have a large group of peopel who refer to a text and are able to keep that as a reference. In the FO world you have rag tag communities of people just trying to survive.

With what...no oral history? No texts about the pre-war era? No realisation that the state they're living in was caused by nuclear bombs?

These aren't savages, y'know. And even if they were, any common culture - even one near starvation - has invented traditions based on reality. Haven't you seen The Gods Must Be Crazy?

How many of the conversations with the townsfolk in FO1/2 do they even speak of nukes, much less a fear of them?

Actually, the tradition of remembrance of the nuclear war is very close to the heart in Fallout, whether it be the way they speak of the Glow or Necropolis or the fact that the Followers of the Apocalypse are named thusly (and preach pacifism, you'll remember).

That doesn't mean people speak about it daily. Why would they? People don't speak about the holocaust daily, yet it is a common memory of importance.

 

[mulaalia]

Yes you are right about "Methuselah" bur problem with your theory are exploding cars with their miniature nuclear explosions
that constantly remind the people of their destructive nature

But leaving the foolishness of FO3 out of it, I still haven't seen evidence in FO1/2 that there would be this grand fear of it.

1st Generation=lots of fear
2nd Gen=less fear
3rd gen=even less fear
4th gen=I'm really hungry
5th gen=...


People worry about the concerns that effect them the most.

Because in FO1 and FO2 nuclear bombs and explosions were rare, you couldn't stumble upon them by strolling through the fucking wastes, sadly all this now has changed with Beth sodomizing the franchise by introducing fat man and nuclear exploding cars

 

[ArmorB]

Last point to make on the whole fear thing. Look at New Orleans and Galvaston. Both destroyed by a hurricane, massivve suffering and even some death. And yet people, knowing damn well another hurricane is likely to destroy the place again, will still move back and rebuild. Within days, weeks, or years they get soft and completely forget about the impending danger to all of their possesions and potentially their lives.

I see the same thing here. People know that the nuke toting governments on both sides have been destroyed and they still have to figure out how to survive and live with what they have left in the world.

Remembering the past and fearing it are potentially 2 different things.

 

[Brother None]

Last point to make on the whole fear thing. Look at New Orleans and Galvaston. Both destroyed by a hurricane, massivve suffering and even some death. And yet people, knowing damn well another hurricane is likely to destroy the place again, will still move back and rebuild.

Way to ruin your own point. Only half of the New Orleans population moved back after Katrina, and the evacuation for the recent hurricane (Gustav? Or the one before?) was fast and accurate because people had learned to rightfully fear rather than trust in their dykes.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Last point to make on the whole fear thing. Look at New Orleans and Galvaston. Both destroyed by a hurricane, massivve suffering and even some death. And yet people, knowing damn well another hurricane is likely to destroy the place again, will still move back and rebuild. Within days, weeks, or years they get soft and completely forget about the impending danger to all of their possesions and potentially their lives.

I see the same thing here. People know that the nuke toting governments on both sides have been destroyed and they still have to figure out how to survive and live with what they have left in the world.

Remembering the past and fearing it are potentially 2 different things.

Completely irrelevant. This is not about how people today act. It's not about how people in real-life act. If you had actually payed attention you'd have noticed this fear of nuclear weapons in Fallout we keep talking about.

 

[mulaalia]

There is actually an achievement called "Doesn't Play Well with Others" you get 20 points for killing 300 people,talking about originality

 

[sarfa]

I think on the whole "do folks in the Fallout setting fear Nukes" debate, we need to remember that there is a sense of much (in terms of knowledge and culture- well, except ofr Monty Python) being lost in the setting. Remember in Fallout 2 where the main character tells one of the NPCs that there theories regarding one headed Brahmin possibly existing before the nuclear war is totally implausible?

Now, I could expand this into a vaguely well thought out argument about why this explains how NPCs might not be afraid of the Fatman, while being scared of nuclear war (Something about the 200 years of oral histories etc being more like a long game of Chinese Whispers, and the Fatman thus not conforming to what people believe about nuclear weapons), but I'm to cynical to think Bethesda thought that much about, so I'm not going to bother.

 

[Brother None]

I think on the whole "do folks in the Fallout setting fear Nukes" debate, we need to remember that there is a sense of much (in terms of knowledge and culture- well, except ofr Monty Python) being lost in the setting. Remember in Fallout 2 where the main character tells one of the NPCs that there theories regarding one headed Brahmin possibly existing before the nuclear war is totally implausible?

Now, I could expand this into a vaguely well thought out argument about why this explains how NPCs might not be afraid of the Fatman, while being scared of nuclear war (Something about the 200 years of oral histories etc being more like a long game of Chinese Whispers, and the Fatman thus not conforming to what people believe about nuclear weapons), but I'm to cynical to think Bethesda thought that much about, so I'm not going to bother.

I think this shows more how you have to prioritize between details and feel. I might not like the Mirelurks much, but I can't argue that they fail to fit the feel of the originals.

Even if you could argue the crookedness of the Fatman into straightness through semantics or marginal quotes like the one you named, the point would still be that Fallout as a setting was always careful with nuclear explosions: in both Fallout 1/2, there is a sense of dark irony involved in the fact that the world is saved by that which once destroyed it. You can't really argue there's no point to that, dark irony has always been one of the core concepts of the setting and its executed well here.

In Fallout 3 it's just kablooie

 

[grayx]

Oh boy, oh boy, invisible walls. There's immurshon for you. It's also funny that people over at the BS board a year ago said that Beth wouldn't do that.

In all honesty, what better solution is there to apply?
...

Well, STALKER did it [partly] by radiation contamination at places where you shouldn't be... 200 y. or so is not a long period for half-decay of radioactive elements [if you are able to survive first 3 day anyway], reality-wise.

edit: Or something like that... Fences, better design, whatnot... I don't like messages like "Hey, this is level designer speaking! TURN BACK!"

 

[TheGM]

and if there was a giant radioactive doughnut around the map people would say "Well how do people get in and out?"

if that was the case. DC Should make the Glow look like a tanning bed.

 

[grayx]

and if there was a giant radioactive doughnut around the map people would say "Well how do people get in and out?"

if that was the case. DC Should make the Glow look like a tanning bed.

Glow was stroked by a single bomb. What do you think how many bombs DC got? 2? Dozen? In any case: it should be glowing like a charismas tree.

However, that’s only one example how to avoid “tunnel effect” and stupid walls… Use something else on different places….

 

[TheGM]

and if there was a giant radioactive doughnut around the map people would say "Well how do people get in and out?"

if that was the case. DC Should make the Glow look like a tanning bed.

Glow was stroked by a single bomb. What do you think how many bombs DC got? 2? Dozen? In any case: it should be glowing like a charismas tree.

However, that’s only one example how to avoid “tunnel effect” and stupid walls… Use something else on different places….

I'm preety sure the place was carpet nuked seeing how everyother city was nuked. O that and they tell you in the game it was hit with more then one.

 

[sarfa]

I think on the whole "do folks in the Fallout setting fear Nukes" debate, we need to remember that there is a sense of much (in terms of knowledge and culture- well, except ofr Monty Python) being lost in the setting. Remember in Fallout 2 where the main character tells one of the NPCs that there theories regarding one headed Brahmin possibly existing before the nuclear war is totally implausible?

Now, I could expand this into a vaguely well thought out argument about why this explains how NPCs might not be afraid of the Fatman, while being scared of nuclear war (Something about the 200 years of oral histories etc being more like a long game of Chinese Whispers, and the Fatman thus not conforming to what people believe about nuclear weapons), but I'm to cynical to think Bethesda thought that much about, so I'm not going to bother.

I think this shows more how you have to prioritize between details and feel. I might not like the Mirelurks much, but I can't argue that they fail to fit the feel of the originals.

Even if you could argue the crookedness of the Fatman into straightness through semantics or marginal quotes like the one you named, the point would still be that Fallout as a setting was always careful with nuclear explosions: in both Fallout 1/2, there is a sense of dark irony involved in the fact that the world is saved by that which once destroyed it. You can't really argue there's no point to that, dark irony has always been one of the core concepts of the setting and its executed well here.

In Fallout 3 it's just kablooie

I agree for the most part. I do however think that having people have these grandiose ideas about a nuclear explosion actually is to the point where they don't recognise a small one also fits the setting. Not as well as nukes never showing up except for ironical purposes, but it's not so out there that it ruins the setting. Sticking in the Fatman because nuclear explosions are cool is, well, not cool, and thats what it seems Bethesda are doing. I totally agree with you on that one Brother None.

However, if (BIG if) they do have any form of in universe rational as to why it's ok to sell nuclear shells, it'll probably be the NPCs adopting the 1950's point of view that "Nuclear solves everything"- which considering there was a rather large nuclear war and the universe has gone all post acopalyptic, is very out of whack.

 

[ookami]

How afraid are you of the Black Plague?

Black plague didn't do quite the lasting or extensive damage of the Fallout universe's Great War. I seriously doubt that The Glow would be a big glowing hole in the ground if West-Tek had been hit with bubonic plague instead of nuclear warheads.

If the destruction in the Great War was caused by the Black Plague, then a Yersinia pestis launcher put in as the game's version of the BFG would be just as stupid due to it trivializing a major impetus of the setting. Another example would be putting a gun that launched mini-terraformers at the target of your choice in The Fall.

If the use of the Fatman was entailed by heavy penalties to rep/karma when used anywhere even somewhat near a settlement and had maybe two shots available through the entire game, I might not have quite so big a problem with it. But the chance of that being the case (knowing Bethesda's history) seems somewhere in the area of an apple tree naturally sprouting a crop of Phillips-head screwdrivers.

And not that I like the Fatman

Then there's no reason to defend it. It's an enormously stupid idea for the Fallout universe in particular.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

They said Rivet City is the biggest settlement or at least the most important in that Game Informer article. It makes sense it sells that kind of stuff. The way I see it, the Fatman is sold at Rivet City, the Citadel, and can be found in hard to reach areas. I have a suspicion that they have one in the Museum of Technology.

They originally said that it was unique and that there was only one of them.

Nukes are a fear of the past and the 'sticks and stones' of the current era are the modern worry

There is still a problem with that Fat Man and those nuclear exploding cars that are reminding people of the wasteland of their destructive past

But I still say it was 200 years ago, how many things from 200 years ago still bother much of anyone today?

Look at cultural taboos. Public nudity, prostitution, children out of wedlock, women working (in some areas of the world), stealing, murder, ect.

and if there was a giant radioactive doughnut around the map people would say "Well how do people get in and out?"

if that was the case. DC Should make the Glow look like a tanning bed.

You make it sound like a variety of borders couldn't be implemented. I see no reason why they have to use just one method, they could mix it up with radiation, rubble, dust storms, cliffs, trenches, craters, ect.

 

[Casual Gamer]

On the subject of borders:

There is no practical way to limit the game area that would please everyone.

Shadow of the colossus (FANTASTIC game, by the way) had one bridge out of it's world, and they handled that border very well. I've never played stalker, but based on what people have said about high radiation levels etc. that sounds almost exactly what Bethesda is doing, there will be a message warning of either deadly radiation levels or a message about the impossibility of crossing a vast expanse of unpopulated wasteland on foot (I don't think you'll ever pilot a vertibird). I will stake my LIFE and my HAT on this.

There are probably (speculation, I'll admit) more than one variety of border around DC, and their existence is absolutely necessary.

That said: If there is literally an invisible wall that the player either stops dead against or walks in place at like a retard, that is ridiculous. There is no evidence that will be the case, and indeed is probably the least likely solution to the problem (even with Beth's design ethos.)

 

[UncannyGarlic]

That said: If there is literally an invisible wall that the player either stops dead against or walks in place at like a retard, that is ridiculous. There is no evidence that will be the case, and indeed is probably the least likely solution to the problem (even with Beth's design ethos.)

This was discussed on the Beth forums a while back and Gstaff or Emil said that there were invisible walls because they didn't want to deal with doing anything different (that's what they did in their last two games). I don't feel like digging through the forums for it but if you just search for "invisible wall" you'll come across it.